Copper gaskets

[Nibsy]

But from what you have written it is the size you have?



Given that the dimensions are the same as in the example I posted that would suggest that it is intended for the exhaust port. That it is copper and not fibre doesn't change the fact.

Ok..... So now I have the copper rings of the correct size, (35x42mm) thanks to Fowler’s of Bristol, and thanks to those forum members that have contributed.
However, I just dont get how this joint is ever going to seal The fixing on the clamp is only M5 or M6 so there’s no way that will exert enough force to compress this hard copper ring. I’m guessing this joint is meant to function like a plumbing compression fitting; where the olive crushes around the pipe and seals the joint. Perhaps I need to use some exhaust sealant too?

 

[Fire-medic]

Something like Permatex sealant may help, but it's not something the factory uses. I don't know how-much experience you have, but when installing an exhaust on a bike, I find that a loose-fitting of all joints to get all pieces in-place, and then working through a series of progressive tightenings to align things for proper, maximum fitment, tubing all-the-way inserted into the cyl heads openings, no 'cocked' (poorly-angled) tubing causing a possibility of an open joint, maximum overlap of mating tubes, and as-mentioned, a series of torquing of fasteners, instead of just running-down tight some fastener, and then struggling to get everything else tight, works best for me.

You can try the sealant if you think it could benefit things, but sometimes, adding another item into the mix, could cause the very leaks you're attempting to-avoid. It's pretty-easy to see if you have fitment issues, you should be able to hear the leak, and with a passage of time, you may find a bit of carbon trace coming from the joint. If you're able to get your hand by the leak, you may feel it too, or use a piece of yarn held in a long-reach pair of pliers to see if you can watch the yarn being blown/moved by a leak.

 

[Nibsy]

Something like Permatex sealant may help, but it's not something the factory uses. I don't know how-much experience you have, but when installing an exhaust on a bike, I find that a loose-fitting of all joints to get all pieces in-place, and then working through a series of progressive tightenings to align things for proper, maximum fitment, tubing all-the-way inserted into the cyl heads openings, no 'cocked' (poorly-angled) tubing causing a possibility of an open joint, maximum overlap of mating tubes, and as-mentioned, a series of torquing of fasteners, instead of just running-down tight some fastener, and then struggling to get everything else tight, works best for me.

Yes, absolutely agree. . The trouble is that even when the clamp is completely tightened (where any more torque would strip the thread) I can just get hold of the downpipe and pull it clean out of the joint!! If the sealing ring was a soft fibre or alloy which compresses easily I can see how this set-up would probably work ok, but the genuine Yamaha copper ring is hard as f@@k and doesn’t compress. I must be missing something somewhere.

 

[MaxMidnight]

This is speculation but as the motor is rubber mounted there will be some movement of the engine relative to the frame.
It may be necessary to allow for this between the cylinder head stubs which are fixed to the engine and the header/ collector which are fixed to the frame which the clamp and ring will allow.
The purpose of the copper ring is to make the seal between the cylinder head stub and the header pipe.

Once the headers are in the collector wouldn't that stop them from coming out?

 

[Nibsy]

This is speculation but as the motor is rubber mounted there will be some movement of the engine relative to the frame.
It may be necessary to allow for this between the cylinder head stubs which are fixed to the engine and the header/ collector which are fixed to the frame which the clamp and ring will allow.
The purpose of the copper ring is to make the seal between the cylinder head stub and the header pipe.

Once the headers are in the collector wouldn't that stop them from coming out?

That certainly sounds feasible with regard to movement. And yes once everything is in place the downpipes stay located in the coupling although they are still loose. It just seems such a piss-poor arrangement for sealing an exhaust.

 

[Nibsy]

Update...............
Absolutely at the end of my tether with this bike. Cannot get this exhaust fitted. The front downpipes appear to be too short to connect into the collector box - there is barely any penetration. It’s a standard set of pipes and mufflers so I don’t know what the hell is wrong. I have now destroyed all the graphite seals because of all the messing about trying to align everything.
I really need to hand this over to someone else as I cannot do it. Can anyone recommend anybody I can take the bike to? - i’m in south Wales UK. Really regret buying this pile of junk.

 

[MaxMidnight]

Update...............
Absolutely at the end of my tether with this bike. Cannot get this exhaust fitted. The front downpipes appear to be too short to connect into the collector box - there is barely any penetration. It’s a standard set of pipes and mufflers so I don’t know what the hell is wrong. I have now destroyed all the graphite seals because of all the messing about trying to align everything.
I really need to hand this over to someone else as I cannot do it. Can anyone recommend anybody I can take the bike to? - i’m in south Wales UK. Really regret buying this pile of junk.

It Might be better to pose the question on V Max Chat as it is UK based albeit not that active.

 

[Nibsy]

It Might be better to pose the question on V Max Chat as it is UK based albeit not that active.

Ok. Cheers.

 

[Fire-medic]

I always 'loose-fit' everything first, and then work to get maximum penetration (save the jokes, this guy wants to ditch his bike, it sounds like) for all the connections, as I snug things up individually. Tubes are not cocked, they are inserted/tightened 'square' in their mating overlapping tubes; the front headers are sitting square against the copper gaskets. You may find the use of another pair of hands useful in getting things aligned properly, and the use of a rubber headed mallet to snug tubes useful.

It could take you 3 or 4 rounds of progressively-tightening things to get optimal positioning, and don't hesitate to back-track if you discover coming-up short at some point, where loosening something to get better connections is needed. Don't forget the middle of the resonator fastener on the OEM system.

 

[Nibsy]

Yes I have the correct bolt for the resonator fixing. What I can’t do is fit the front headers without damaging the graphite seals and they just don’t go deep enough into the resonator,.... it’s like they are a good inch too short.

 

[Fire-medic]

Yes I have the correct bolt for the resonator fixing. What I can’t do is fit the front headers without damaging the graphite seals and they just don’t go deep enough into the resonator,.... it’s like they are a good inch too short.

Perhaps try fitting them (the graphite seals) protruding halfway-out, then introduce the header pipe into each, and try to seat the header pipe where the graphite gasket ends-up fully in the female, but not all the way to the back. A water soluble gel like KY jelly or a generic equivalent is good for things like that, holding gaskets in-place during assembly, and getting parts to easily-fit together. A couple heat/cool cycles and the residue will be gone.

 

[user 16790]

is there any indication that the front pipes may have been shortened for some reason, alternatively is there a chance the front pipes may be aftermarket for a different system

 

[MaxMidnight]

Anuvar possibility is to have a word with H at Exactrep and see if he would measure the length of a set to headers to establish if yours are shorter?

 

[Nibsy]

Anuvar possibility is to have a word with H at Exactrep and see if he would measure the length of a set to headers to establish if yours are shorter?

It was him that sold me this pile of ****.

 

[Stephan]

For the rear headers have you checked that you have this part - #6 1FK 14618 00 RING, STOPPER 2 ?

If that was not in place then as you say you can tighten the clamp as much as you like and the header will still pull out.

 

[Nibsy]

Yes

For the rear headers have you checked that you have this part - #6 1FK 14618 00 RING, STOPPER 2 ?

If that was not in place then as you say you can tighten the clamp as much as you like and the header will still pull out.View attachment 77677

View attachment 77677
Yes I have that part, and new genuine Yamaha copper gaskets. With the clamp done up hard I can still pull the pipe out of the joint,… it’s like a prick in a shirt-sleeve.

 

[Screwloose]

Update...............
Absolutely at the end of my tether with this bike. Cannot get this exhaust fitted. The front downpipes appear to be too short to connect into the collector box - there is barely any penetration. It’s a standard set of pipes and mufflers so I don’t know what the hell is wrong. I have now destroyed all the graphite seals because of all the messing about trying to align everything.
I really need to hand this over to someone else as I cannot do it. Can anyone recommend anybody I can take the bike to? - i’m in south Wales UK. Really regret buying this pile of junk.

Hi, just noticed your post.
I had my pipes and collector box off last year, and practically destroyed the graphite seals also during assembly. My front downpipes were holed so replaced them with aftermarkets. I fu*=+d around with this exhaust for an entire day, in all my years I’ve never had so much trouble from an exhaust, it appeared not to fit. This is a horrible exhaust to get back on without wrecking the graphite seals. It also appeared to me that the aftermarket downpipes I bought were short, but I did get them on…………..eventually.

For the back pipes (I cannot remember the seals set up), but I tucked them up out the way to get the front and collector box on. The from and box assembly I done up roughly then attached to the bike as an assembly, unfortunately you are stuck with the length from silencer bolts to front header bolts. I got there eventually but the connections from downpipes to collector box are hanging in there by a half inch. Also it ended up a two man job.

After that the chrome heat plates would not fit properly either, phew what an effort it was.

Not sure if photos would help you of how it is now, but if you need any just ask and I’ll take a few.

 

[Nibsy]

Hi, just noticed your post.
I had my pipes and collector box off last year, and practically destroyed the graphite seals also during assembly. My front downpipes were holed so replaced them with aftermarkets. I fu*=+d around with this exhaust for an entire day, in all my years I’ve never had so much trouble from an exhaust, it appeared not to fit. This is a horrible exhaust to get back on without wrecking the graphite seals. It also appeared to me that the aftermarket downpipes I bought were short, but I did get them on…………..eventually.

For the back pipes (I cannot remember the seals set up), but I tucked them up out the way to get the front and collector box on. The from and box assembly I done up roughly then attached to the bike as an assembly, unfortunately you are stuck with the length from silencer bolts to front header bolts. I got there eventually but the connections from downpipes to collector box are hanging in there by a half inch. Also it ended up a two man job.

After that the chrome heat plates would not fit properly either, phew what an effort it was.

Not sure if photos would help you of how it is now, but if you need any just ask and I’ll take a few.

Thanks for taking the trouble to write this info - much appreciated. . I honestly wish i’d never touched the bloody thing now. I don’t have a bike lift so it’s all grovelling around on the floor and laying under the bike trying to align things. I’d rather shallow-fry my own bollox than attempt this job again.

 

[Screwloose]

Thanks for taking the trouble to write this info - much appreciated. . I honestly wish i’d never touched the bloody thing now. I don’t have a bike lift so it’s all grovelling around on the floor and laying under the bike trying to align things. I’d rather shallow-fry my own bollox than attempt this job again.

Phew sounds very serious if you are contemplating frying your bits out of frustration, but I really can see where your coming from as I was nearly a straight jacket case myself. It should be so simple, but ends up as a major event, pig ignorance combined with determination is the only way forward on this. The graphite seals disintegrate if you try and tap them down even a small fraction. I think i removed both stands to see a bit clearer.

I know it’s very difficult to find people to do work on a VMax, and especially oddball work such as this. Fowlers is a great help with parts, the parts man is a genius, but for work such as yours- no way.

Not sure where you are in Wales, or if you have transport to move a bike, but I can suggest one guy who lives in Stroud (up the M5). This guy built and drag raced VMax’s many years ago and works in a car MOT station just as you go out of Stroud on the A419. But Wales is a big place and if your not near the Avon bridge it would be awkward to get as far as Stroud. Weld the whole thing together if need be, or another suggestion if you don't mind is chop the balancing pipe between the two downpipes just before the collector box, then make a sleeve, then use exhaust paste and clamp. You can really do anything with an exhaust and still get through an MOT.

Hope that helps out a bit, good luck.

 

[Nibsy]

Phew sounds very serious if you are contemplating frying your bits out of frustration, but I really can see where your coming from as I was nearly a straight jacket case myself. It should be so simple, but ends up as a major event, pig ignorance combined with determination is the only way forward on this. The graphite seals disintegrate if you try and tap them down even a small fraction. I think i removed both stands to see a bit clearer.

I know it’s very difficult to find people to do work on a VMax, and especially oddball work such as this. Fowlers is a great help with parts, the parts man is a genius, but for work such as yours- no way.

Not sure where you are in Wales, or if you have transport to move a bike, but I can suggest one guy who lives in Stroud (up the M5). This guy built and drag raced VMax’s many years ago and works in a car MOT station just as you go out of Stroud on the A419. But Wales is a big place and if your not near the Avon bridge it would be awkward to get as far as Stroud. Weld the whole thing together if need be, or another suggestion if you don't mind is chop the balancing pipe between the two downpipes just before the collector box, then make a sleeve, then use exhaust paste and clamp. You can really do anything with an exhaust and still get through an MOT.

Hope that helps out a bit, good luck.

That’s brill - many thanks. I would like the details of the chap you mentioned. I’m sort of between Bridgend and Cardiff, close to the M4 (jct 34) so Stroud is certainly do-able. I work away from home two weeks-about so my weekends are precious - if I can get some outside help here I don’t mind paying the cost of two days van rental to get it sorted. Many thanks once again.