Definition of Irony where AGATT is scorned

[Fire-medic]

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/f...sedgntp&cvid=bc0a6fca920e4a68d28df975bbac73e6
A Florida attorney who fought state helmet laws died in a motorcycle crash while not wearing one. Ron Smith, an experienced rider, was killed on Aug. 20 after he lost control of his motorcycle and crashed into a utility trailer. His girlfriend, Brenda Volpe, was his passenger and also died.

"He was a guy that you went to for advice," Gary Pruss told the Tampa Bay Times.

The pair met through a group called the American Legion in Old Town.

Smith was traveling on U.S. 19 North in Pinellas County when he began to slow down to traffic, lost control of his motorcycle and skid on the roadway, the Florida Highway Patrol wrote in an accident report. His bike rotated "in a clockwise motion, overturning onto its left side" and collided with the left side and wheel of the utility trailer.

Smith, 66, was pronounced dead at the scene. Volpe, 62, died hours later at a hospital.

A medical examiner said Smith and Volpe died from head trauma, the Times reported. The office did not immediately return a request for comment on Wednesday.

The accident report noted that neither was wearing a helmet at the time of the crash, although it is unknown whether one would have prevented their deaths.

Smith had spent over a decade fighting Florida laws that required the use of helmets, according to the Tampa Bay Times. He represented a number of clients who violated state motorcycle requirements in court cases that have been credited with helping to overturn the helmet law.

The current law states that anyone over the age of 21 can ride without headgear as long as they have at least $10,000 in insurance coverage "for injuries incurred as a result of a crash while operating or riding on a motorcycle."

Dave Newman, a friend, told the newspaper that Smith loved his independence and did not like being told what to do.

"He thought everybody should have their own choice," he said.

In one court case from 1996, Smith represented a man who was ticketed for riding his motorcycle without a helmet in Madeira Beach, according to the Times, citing a Tampa Tribune article. As a result of the case, the Pinellas Sheriff’s Office briefly stopped enforcing the state’s helmet law after a judge dismissed the person's citation. The judge based the decision on another case that Smith fought in which it was ruled that Florida's law was unconstitutional.

At the time, Smith told the Tribune that he got on his bike and went "looking for a ticket" by riding through Pinellas County without a helmet for 90 miles.

"I passed at least a half-dozen cops," he said. "And all I got was a sunburn."

(Editor's note: And eventually, a death certificate).

 

[MileHayabusa]

And people say there isn't such a thing as cosmic karma...

 

[Pighuntingpuppy]

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/f...sedgntp&cvid=bc0a6fca920e4a68d28df975bbac73e6
A Florida attorney who fought state helmet laws died in a motorcycle crash while not wearing one. Ron Smith, an experienced rider, was killed on Aug. 20 after he lost control of his motorcycle and crashed into a utility trailer. His girlfriend, Brenda Volpe, was his passenger and also died.

"He was a guy that you went to for advice," Gary Pruss told the Tampa Bay Times.

The pair met through a group called the American Legion in Old Town.

Smith was traveling on U.S. 19 North in Pinellas County when he began to slow down to traffic, lost control of his motorcycle and skid on the roadway, the Florida Highway Patrol wrote in an accident report. His bike rotated "in a clockwise motion, overturning onto its left side" and collided with the left side and wheel of the utility trailer.

Smith, 66, was pronounced dead at the scene. Volpe, 62, died hours later at a hospital.

A medical examiner said Smith and Volpe died from head trauma, the Times reported. The office did not immediately return a request for comment on Wednesday.

The accident report noted that neither was wearing a helmet at the time of the crash, although it is unknown whether one would have prevented their deaths.

Smith had spent over a decade fighting Florida laws that required the use of helmets, according to the Tampa Bay Times. He represented a number of clients who violated state motorcycle requirements in court cases that have been credited with helping to overturn the helmet law.

The current law states that anyone over the age of 21 can ride without headgear as long as they have at least $10,000 in insurance coverage "for injuries incurred as a result of a crash while operating or riding on a motorcycle."

Dave Newman, a friend, told the newspaper that Smith loved his independence and did not like being told what to do.

"He thought everybody should have their own choice," he said.

In one court case from 1996, Smith represented a man who was ticketed for riding his motorcycle without a helmet in Madeira Beach, according to the Times, citing a Tampa Tribune article. As a result of the case, the Pinellas Sheriff’s Office briefly stopped enforcing the state’s helmet law after a judge dismissed the person's citation. The judge based the decision on another case that Smith fought in which it was ruled that Florida's law was unconstitutional.

At the time, Smith told the Tribune that he got on his bike and went "looking for a ticket" by riding through Pinellas County without a helmet for 90 miles.

"I passed at least a half-dozen cops," he said. "And all I got was a sunburn."

(Editor's note: And eventually, a death certificate).

Sometimes things are smart to do. But I believe in personal freedom. He made the free and personal choice to ride without a helmet. Now based on what I could find, it seems like he was going too fast and couldnt stop for slowing and or stopped traffic. I dont know how fast he was going, I dont know what type of bike he was on nor the circumstances on how he hit. A helmet may have not been much help. Like the story says....we may never know.

But it should be up to the individual to determine what is right for them in their life. Too much government regulation is a bad thing.

For me personally....I live in a state that doesnt require helmets. I own several. When I do longer rides, I will wear my helmet cause of the Bluetooth. If I am doing a short ride or errand on the bike....no helmet. I know the risks even on a short ride. But tomorrow isnt guaranteed for anyone. I rather be taken out doing what I love than waiting for old age to get me. I have a DNR, DNI, and prepaid cremation. I hold no delusions of life and death. Should the worst happen....I am covered. I want the choice to be mine and mine alone of whether I want to wear a helmet or not.

I see it this way, at least for me personally....Say I was in this mans situation but instead, I was wearing a helmet. I survive the wreck. The helmet though breaks my neck. Now....I am a cripple confined to a wheel chair. Thats a fate worse than death knowing I cannot take care of myself and I have to affect other peoples lives taking care of me for the rest of their lives. Death is better. A cripples quality of life will never be nowhere near the quality of life as an abled person.

 

[MaxMidnight]

But it should be up to the individual to determine what is right for them in their life. Too much government regulation is a bad thing.

I don't disagree with that sentiment provided your actions don't have any negative impact on others. I suspect in the majority of situations this won't be the case.

In the example above it will have affected those who witnessed the accident and the immediate aftermath; those from the emergency services that had to pick up the pieces; other users of the road who were delayed while the mess was cleared up; those at the hospital who had to deal with the injured party; the nearest and dearest who will have to cope with the loss and trauma of suddenly losing a dear one; the loss of financial support that the deceased may have been providing for. There are the costs, incalculable in terms of human suffering which may affect some for the rest of their life.
Then there is the financial cost - have a read of this.

So, IMO, we have the right to determine what is right in our life but we don't have the right to adversely affect the lives of others.
I think that broadly speaking that is why we need to have laws?

 

[Pighuntingpuppy]

Well...death....whether you peacefully go in your sleep or as a quarter mile long hamburger helper skid mark on the road is gonna adversely affect lots of people. Thats the drawback of death. The ONLY thing you cannot do yourself. You cannot clean yourself up. Thats a matter for the living.

Death is rarely planned. Yet death is daily. Yes, loved ones will grieve. But they do it once. If things were planned ahead of time and they get through their grieving process.....death is easier. If you didnt have the inevitable planned out, when your number is punched, it will be harder for your loved ones to get through the shortsightedness of your decisions.

Even if humans were fully capable of not causing collisions or violence towards one another.....death is still gonna adversely affect people. People to clean your carcass from wherever your drop. People to transport you to the morgue. People to bury you, burn you, or use your body for science(if you are that type). People to write your obituary. And a bunch more that are in the business of death. And this is from a hypothetical perfect world where our deaths dont adversely affect people.


As for the person the story is about. He made a series of bad choices. He was able to make them on his own volition as a free man. While I cannot speak for everyone across the world and even here in America, most Americans want the CHOICE to do what they want. Right or wrong, we want the choice. Even if sometimes that choice takes our life.

 

[D Larson]

Well...death....whether you peacefully go in your sleep or as a quarter mile long hamburger helper skid mark on the road is gonna adversely affect lots of people. Thats the drawback of death. The ONLY thing you cannot do yourself. You cannot clean yourself up. Thats a matter for the living.

Death is rarely planned. Yet death is daily. Yes, loved ones will grieve. But they do it once. If things were planned ahead of time and they get through their grieving process.....death is easier. If you didnt have the inevitable planned out, when your number is punched, it will be harder for your loved ones to get through the shortsightedness of your decisions.

Even if humans were fully capable of not causing collisions or violence towards one another.....death is still gonna adversely affect people. People to clean your carcass from wherever your drop. People to transport you to the morgue. People to bury you, burn you, or use your body for science(if you are that type). People to write your obituary. And a bunch more that are in the business of death. And this is from a hypothetical perfect world where our deaths dont adversely affect people.


As for the person the story is about. He made a series of bad choices. He was able to make them on his own volition as a free man. While I cannot speak for everyone across the world and even here in America, most Americans want the CHOICE to do what they want. Right or wrong, we want the choice. Even if sometimes that choice takes our life.

I am with you on this one. I have met plenty of people of who believe motorcycles should be banned because they are too dangerous, period. There is always another of level of risk.

I clearly recall that two years ago it was too dangerous to be outside on the street smoking a cigarette unless you had a mask on. The layers of Irony on that one start to resemble a Laurel and Hardy routine.

 

[MaxMidnight]

Well...death....whether you peacefully go in your sleep or as a quarter mile long hamburger helper skid mark on the road is gonna adversely affect lots of people. Thats the drawback of death. The ONLY thing you cannot do yourself. You cannot clean yourself up. Thats a matter for the living.

Death is rarely planned. Yet death is daily. Yes, loved ones will grieve. But they do it once. If things were planned ahead of time and they get through their grieving process.....death is easier. If you didnt have the inevitable planned out, when your number is punched, it will be harder for your loved ones to get through the shortsightedness of your decisions.

Even if humans were fully capable of not causing collisions or violence towards one another.....death is still gonna adversely affect people. People to clean your carcass from wherever your drop. People to transport you to the morgue. People to bury you, burn you, or use your body for science(if you are that type). People to write your obituary. And a bunch more that are in the business of death. And this is from a hypothetical perfect world where our deaths dont adversely affect people.


As for the person the story is about. He made a series of bad choices. He was able to make them on his own volition as a free man. While I cannot speak for everyone across the world and even here in America, most Americans want the CHOICE to do what they want. Right or wrong, we want the choice. Even if sometimes that choice takes our life.

Having choice and free will is something worth fighting for; IMO that is not the same as deliberately ignoring or not caring about the affect your actions will have.
Natural causes and accident are a fact of life and often unavoidable. However, I suspect whilst most of us will do things that have risk we either take precautions to try and limit that risk or we are prevented from doing so by having 'safety' built in to what we do.

What I struggle with are those individuals who deliberately put themselves and the wider population at risk in the name of 'free will'.

Free will is me choosing what I want to do today, choosing to drive to the shops or go for a walk in the park.
It isn't choosing to drive at excessive speed through the park on a sunny afternoon when there are other people there.

As I have said before, free will is fine provided it doesn't adversely affect anyone else.

 

[Pighuntingpuppy]

Having choice and free will is something worth fighting for; IMO that is not the same as deliberately ignoring or not caring about the affect your actions will have.
Natural causes and accident are a fact of life and often unavoidable. However, I suspect whilst most of us will do things that have risk we either take precautions to try and limit that risk or we are prevented from doing so by having 'safety' built in to what we do.

What I struggle with are those individuals who deliberately put themselves and the wider population at risk in the name of 'free will'.

Free will is me choosing what I want to do today, choosing to drive to the shops or go for a walk in the park.
It isn't choosing to drive at excessive speed through the park on a sunny afternoon when there are other people there.

As I have said before, free will is fine provided it doesn't adversely affect anyone else.

Choice is choice no matter how you slice it. I never said people make smart choices. Even the choices you make....others will disprove of and even claim they aren't for the greater good. Do you yield to their judgements?

 

[TK3333]

I cant think of 1 time in my life that I wished I hadnt worn gear. On the other hand, there are many, many times I am glad I did, and a couple times where I wished I had worn more.
Obviously we all know and accecpt the risks involved in riding and its is a personal choice as to how we ride and what we wear in doing so. To each their own.
We have a helmet law here in NJ so no choice as to yes or no, just what kind you wear.

 

[D Larson]

Here is an example of big time risk taking. However he did wear a helmet.

 

[Fire-medic]

Having worked in an industry where PPE is mandatory, and having been protected by it so that I got to go home unharmed at the end of the day, I appreciate the need to use it/have it. Sometimes people have it but don't use it, or use it incorrectly. Little good that it does them!

Whether it's been the workplace, recreation, or operating a vehicle of some-sort, I've been able to avoid serious injury because I wore protective equipment. I've scrapped-out several cabeza-protectors, and I can say that with a degree of personal experience, I might-not be around to write this without PPE.

When I see riders wearing flip-flops, a backwards-facing baseball cap, tank-top and shorts, on a $30,000+ Harley dresser, I say a prayer thanking the Lord for giving me the common sense to not be that guy.

I treated enough members of society who were harmed in accidents to understand the need to have regulations concerning transportation. The idiot who went through the windshield because he wasn't wearing a restraint device, leaving pieces of his face on the shattered glass; the infant being held by a young sibling who had its neck broken and who died in a relatively minor motor vehicle accident (that one still gives me nightmares) and all the other incidents where carelessness, individual rights, unfortunate circumstances, and life-altering/life-ending events I've seen, have made me a more-cautious person.

Those who insist on being 'freedom advocates' and who don't wear helmets should check their accident insurance coverage, as they may discover that their policy doesn't cover them if they don't wear an approved helmet. Are you responsible for a family's economic well-being? Then why in God's name wouldn't you protect yourself?

 

[Pighuntingpuppy]

Are you responsible for a family's economic well-being? Then why in God's name wouldn't you protect yourself?

I dont gotta worry about that personally. I avoided marriage. Never will marry. No kids that I am aware of. Am I protected when my number is punched....yup. DNR, DNI and a prepaid cremation. No one has to foot my bill. No one has to take care of me when I make a bad choice. If I dont make a bad choice and someone else adversely affects me, wait till I am done bleeding and breathing. Then scoop me up, shovel me up, sponge me up. Toss me in the oven, hit broil and walk away. What belongings I have will be distributed among charities equally if there are any real financial values to them.

But this is just me and I know others dont have the ultra minimalistic lifestyle I have. It was an answer to your last question that yes...I have my affairs in order when it finally does happen.

 

[wayne billings]

One thing bikers are and that is aware , we have to be or we wouldn't be. Enjoy the ride.

 

[MaxMidnight]

Choice is choice no matter how you slice it. I never said people make smart choices. Even the choices you make....others will disprove of and even claim they aren't for the greater good. Do you yield to their judgements?

Just because everyone is entitled to an opinion it doesn't follow that it is incumbent on you to agree with them or follow their advice.

However, for those who deliberately fail to take actions that reduce risks to their person or the impact it will have on others are, IMO, either selfish, stupid or both. Have a read of this to see what I mean.

I dont gotta worry about that personally. I avoided marriage. Never will marry. No kids that I am aware of. Am I protected when my number is punched....yup. DNR, DNI and a prepaid cremation. No one has to foot my bill. No one has to take care of me when I make a bad choice. If I dont make a bad choice and someone else adversely affects me, wait till I am done bleeding and breathing. Then scoop me up, shovel me up, sponge me up. Toss me in the oven, hit broil and walk away. What belongings I have will be distributed among charities equally if there are any real financial values to them.

But this is just me and I know others dont have the ultra minimalistic lifestyle I have. It was an answer to your last question that yes...I have my affairs in order when it finally does happen.

All well and good but don't you care about to poor sods who witness your demise, the even poorer sods that have the job of scraping you up or those who have to foot the bill?
Thought not.

 

[Pighuntingpuppy]

All well and good but don't you care about to poor sods who witness your demise, the even poorer sods that have the job of scraping you up or those who have to foot the bill?
Thought not.

The same can be said for you. You....boring AF.....sitting in that nursing home shitting your pants while you slowly die of cancer. Relying on others footing your bill. Those who live in glass houses really shouldnt throw stones.

As I said in post 5....Death...my death. Your death, Joe Blows death....has to be taken care of by someone LIVING. Death ALWAYS affects the living. Its the one thing you cannot do on your own. So....Do you like bitching because you feel like you have to be the smartest guy anywhere you go? No ones opinion matters but yours. That much is abundantly clear.

 

[MaxMidnight]

The same can be said for you. You....boring AF.....sitting in that nursing home shitting your pants while you slowly die of cancer. Relying on others footing your bill. Those who live in glass houses really shouldnt throw stones.

As I said in post 5....Death...my death. Your death, Joe Blows death....has to be taken care of by someone LIVING. Death ALWAYS affects the living. Its the one thing you cannot do on your own. So....Do you like bitching because you feel like you have to be the smartest guy anywhere you go? No ones opinion matters but yours. That much is abundantly clear.

You always know you are winning an argument when the insults start to flow.
It is oft said there is nothing like a good argument and what has been written above is NOTHING like a good argument.

 

[Pighuntingpuppy]

What is an insult to you? What was the EXACT trigger of an insult? Was it vulgarity expressing a point? Was it stating a scenario that is all to real to you?

Lets talk about insults shall we.....UK terminology here.....You used the word SOD. What does this mean?

/ (sɒd) slang, mainly British / noun. a person considered to be obnoxious. a jocular word for a person the poor sod hasn't been out for weeks.

Sounds like an insult. Oh....I know I know.....Not what you meant. Different meaning I am sure. Right? Like I said....you hate being called out. You HAVE to be the absolute smartest person in the room. Even when you tout your hypocrisy. I am sure you are now gonna make some babbling nonsense how your use of an insulting word is not an insult.

 

[MaxMidnight]

I rest my case...........

 

[Stephan]

Sometimes I wear PPE and sometimes I don't. I make that decision based on circumstances and my preferences that day. My personal safety is my decision, and certainly not that of any government. prevent me from harming others - yes, but I do not require protection from my own decisions. Of course we live in a society where we cannot avoid all consequences to other people from decisions on personal safety but that does not mean that I have to modify my personal choices on how I ride my motorcycle, climb a mountain, ride a horse, mow the lawn or watch TV, because actually I am not harming others by taking these decisions, I am only causing some ripples in the pool of consequences.

 

[Bad Max]

What a load of BS. Climb down and let's talk about BIKES, this is a motorcycle forum, or have I missed something?