dyno dilemma

[gamorg02]

i agree fourth.

i like to see the glass half full. better on the dyno that at 110 mph

 

[Fire-medic]

"better on the dyno that at 110 mph": Garrett

Yes, one of the reasons to moderate your vehicle's performance capabilities as-demonstrated.

We had another rider come into the Level 1 trauma facility this week after a sportbike get-off. He was lucky, apart from road rash, he was OK. FL is a no-helmet state. he had one though. The ***** was very concerned that his jeans were cut-off by fire-rescue en-route to the hospital as a trauma alert. There were 5 physicians or residents waiting on his arrival. As I have mentioned, it's a $10K bill to cross the threshhold.

 

[SpecOps13]

I just bought 9 pairs of very nice jeans for 5 bucks apiece. It's the Pain and Agony Anticipation that takes
over lately and makes me get off the throttle at about 100. If I haven't beat whatever by then, it's just not
worth the risk....


Cut the Damn Pants off, they're easily replaced....:rofl_200:

 

[CaptainKyle]

I just bought 9 pairs of very nice jeans for 5 bucks apiece. It's the Pain and Agony Anticipation that takes
over lately and makes me get off the throttle at about 100. If I haven't beat whatever by then, it's just not
worth the risk....


Cut the Damn Pants off, they're easily replaced....:rofl_200:

Way better than me more mo:biglaugh:tors around always another one to build.LOL

 

[Fire-medic]

I stopped by the shop today to ask about the o-ring for the oil pickup and the shop owner, who did the teardown, said the o-ring was not 'popped.'

I also got to speak to my friend who was in there today who is a machinist. I have posted some pics of his work in the past. He stops-in 1Xwk. to pick-up/drop-off parts & tonight was helping them build-up a Kawi which has an MTC cast cyl.block & a billet head that is a one-off. It's based on a 'J' KZ1000 design, so, air-cooled. He didn't get to my parts yet but said he will get them done so my engine can be done in-time for Daytona, but I am going to be the one putting it back in the frame. He did give me some tips on being able to use a replacement engine which is itself 'used,' and since he is very successful as a machinist and a drag racer on the national circuit in the past, I am going to remember his advice. maybe I should have asked him first! Actually, I did when I was searching for an engine, I called him to inquire if he knew of any good used engines, and he didn't have any leads on one at that time. Anyway... so it's another week before I get my parts back, and all the other stuff didn't come in to the shop yet anyway. Sorry for all you hot-rodders out there, this isn't going to be a 'Sean-type' build, I am just trying to get it back together to ride again. After I spend my $$ on that, I will take a look at the block w/the bad crank/rod & see if the thrust surface for the #3 rod is shot. The crank is still in the case, just the gearbox is removed (the machinist has them). I am gonna have him do the shift drum/forks from the blown engine to my original engine as the shifting was fine in the blown one before it let-go. So, that's it for a sit-rep.

Peak Horsepower appears to have happened at 109 mph. From there on, HP fell off like it would after 9,000 RPM on a stock motor...
So it appears that quite a few more RPM were added. Is it possible the runs were made in 3rd gear? Just a thought.... Only other
thought is like KJ mentioned with a blow O-Ring..

 

[one2dmax]

Progress either way you look at it!

 

[Fire-medic]

Progress either way you look at it!

As Sean was saying, "progress!" A couple of pics of the undercut gearsets including a close-up. Work done by my machinist friend who lives down the street from the old Pratt & Whitney factory in rural Palm Beach Co. FL. :worthy:

Pretty-close to Tim, actually! "Seen any spikes lately?"

 

[one2dmax]

Did you hard weld up any heavily rounded dogs first? If not the trans will not last long since you have to cut through the "crust" to get them square again. This exposes the soft inner layer of metal that didn't get heat treated so the gears wear much faster.

Sean

 

[Fire-medic]

I didn't use the gears from the old engine that was jumping-out of gear, which was why I bought a used engine instead of repairing my old one. I am using the gearset from the used engine which was inspected by both the mechanic friend of mine as-well as the machinist. He wouldn't use the gears if they were in-need of replacement. I'll have the 'bad' gearset which can be refurbished if at some point in the future I chose to re-use them. Thank-you for mentioning it though.

These guys work on drag bikes for customers where the bikes are bracket-racing at 7.90 seconds on motor but when spraying the NoS can break into the 6's. I am not a drag-racer myself, so those of you who are know the classes' rules.

Here's the mechanic, Steve, who owns Under Pressure in Dania Beach FL staging their rider at Palm Beach Int'l. Raceway, the guy using the external starter is Jeff who owns Slater Racing. Presently I saw four different drag racing engines in various stages of assembly there tonight.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tqkFk2mWgeo
6.87 @ 193.5, not too bad! Watch the rider get on the edge of the tire & trying to keep it straight coming out of the hole about 2:07.

 

[WVxNitemare]

Wow... That must be one helluva ride.

Sent from my GT-I9000M using Tapatalk

 

[Fire-medic]

They have that bike in the shop right now doing some maintenance. They also have a flyweight female who can ride it. Steve, the mechanic, said the last time she rode it, they had just upped the NoS spray nozzles, and he said when she launched, he could see her forearms above her helmet as she tore-down the track. She turned 193 mph and when she came back, she asked,"how much-more of a NoS hit did you put on it?" She bent the wheelie bars upwards! Steve said it's about 250 on motor and more than twice that when they spray it. He said it's 'too-slow' for Pro-Stock.

 

[Fire-medic]

I stopped by the shop, the &*^&$$#!!# local dealership sent the wrong gaskets, so I am waiting on them. They are taking their sweet time. The engine is done except for the side covers & H2O pump being installed. I am gonna paint it before I re-install it. I like the factory finish, any suggestions as to paint code from a domestic supplier I can get at the local auto body paint supply house? Kyle said any quality auto paint will work OK. What is close to the factory finish? Thanks.

 

[jagco1]

I had a dyno done by a reputable shop and this is the result. It was a Dynojet 250. I watched it being done, 3 pulls, none of which were excessively long in duration. I was outside the sound-enclosure and did have a view of the electronic screen where the rpm's were graphically-displayed. It looked to me like the pulls went beyond 10K when they got into whatever gear they use, which I would suppose is probably 4th, as I believe that is 1:1. I think they over-revved it and smoked the rod bearing & crank on the runs. I videotaped the runs and thought I had a clear view of the computer tach simulated screen, but in playback, it is too-indistinct to show the rpm's they ran the engine to.

The engine is a totally-stock one. My bike is a 1992. I got on the bike after they took it off the dyno and parked it outside the shop. I started it up and began riding home, a distance of ~3 mi. After about 1 mi., the engine began making "rod noises." It still ran, but I figured at that point, the damage was done, so I rode it the rest of the way home.

I tore it out of the frame and took it to my friend's shop, 'Under Pressure," Dania Beach FL, where the owner Steve confirmed the #3 rod and the crank is toast. The adjoining #4 rod is not much better, but it doesn't have the ~2 MM of big-end play the #3 rod does on the crank journal. Notice the color in the area of the mortal wound.

Sadly, I doubt there is amy recourse I have against the dyno operator, as he will claim the engine was already 'hanging by a thread,' and that the dyno was the last-gasp by a bad engine. I haven't even approached them about it. Caveat emptor!

My intent was to get a baseline for some bolt-ons I was about to make, a full set of carbs Dynojet Stage 7-kitted and including K&N pods for the intake and a barely-used UFO silver-coated 4/1 w/the shorty slash-cut baffle. I wanted to be able to say, "this is what these were worth on my bike, your results may vary!"

The engine was running fine before this, no problems starting or running, I hadn't synched the carbs yet but I believe they were reasonably-close. It carbureted smoothly and cleanly, and would pull to 9K+ w/no issues whatsoever, though I wasn't in the habit of running it to redline every time I got aboard. I am also not one to make drag-racing starts and have never been to the strip to run it. So, if I had to say, it received enthusiastic use w/o being abused or raced. I didn't speed-shift. But what happened is the crank probably had a rod big-end failure due to over-revving and oil failure.

Before my mechanic disassembled it, he told me, "it's going to be #3 bearing for the connecting rod/crank." Sure-enough, it was.

So, leave well-enough alone, is my advice, I would probably be riding using the same engine today if I hadn't had the dyno test done. Do I want to lay the blame on the dyno operator? I would like to, but unfortunately I have no proof they over-revved it. :confused2::bang head::bang head::confused2::damn angry::damn angry::confused2:

Not to hi-jack this threat...
I no some many people motor blown do to dyno testing...
Last year Irv my bike riding friend has mint shape 1992 ZX10 only had 2350 miles on at the time this happen. We went to a bike show Irv had his bike dyno
on trailer type setup, 3 pulls for $75.00 he sign a weaver. The 2nd pull motor pop, 3rd pull went ok motor dyno 134.7 hp. But on the way home about 125 miles in to the ride his bike started smoking out the lift side exhaust and then then the right side - Light white blue smoke. It was clear the dyno mass up the motor. I just gut off the phone with Irv ask him what happen with the zx10 motor - he said he could not do anything to the shop that did the dyno test because of the paper he sign. He sold the bike with the bad motor for $1000.00. There was not a mark on this bike.

 

[Fire-medic]

That's not a 'thread hijack.'

Yes, these things happen for whatever reason. I kinda think the bike may have had awhile to go before needing work w/o the dyno stress. It ran absolutely-fine, and would run deep into 4th w/no issues whatsoever to hint of problems.

Anyway, if you have a donor engine, it seems like a small thing to do to check the clearances, especially since #3 conn rod big end is known to give problems. That was the fatal one for me.

 

[jagco1]

Man sorry to read what happen to you. Did you replace the motor or get it back running right.

I only had a car dyno 327 small block about 4 years ago. But why I was at the shop to cars test after mind. A 944 turbo sweet car his motor through a rod crack the block. after seeing that. I never had it dun again. Then found out over the years buy talking to guy's at some of local race track some people has been blowing motor's at dyno shops....


I call over Durham speed shop in MD to talk the owner about dyno's He said Gaines don't put your car 1 right off the back. He said he never trust it, something about rear wheels resistance roller to free flowing motor. Can stress parts. He said the best test is motor out of the car.... Then he said people been losing motor at dyno's that really don't no what they are doing. But don't no the math that go's in to it.

 

[Traumahawk]

I wonder if a dyno can bring a previously unknown problem to light. At the dyno day in topeka ks, I had my bike dyno'd 5 times (the dyno operator said that he would usually dyno a bike until the hp started falling off). Mine fell off 1/2 a hp after 5 runs. He asked what the redline was and I said 10,000. It smoked a bit halfway thru the first run (clearing its throat) and ran clean every run after that. After that drove 6 hrs back home. This a stock motor with 34000 miles.

Now...I will say one thing, I stayed in there, and watched him on every run, and the minute that it hit 10000, he would get off of it. So I know for a fact that it wasnt over rev'd.