EFI forum

[blvdblaster1200]

Mike, so are you going to use the p/u coils as your crank positions sensor? Are you going to run one O2 sensor? You probably could use the temp gage unit as your coolant temperature sensor. Anything else needed besides a manifold air pressure sensor?

i may have to run a 36 tooth wheel for crank signal.and ill definitely have a lambda sensor.ill have to run an intake air temp, coolant temp,and a 3 bar map sensor also a tps. the cts will have to be separate- the ms fi uses gm sensors for the most part.no big deal thing i have a tool box drawer full of them.

 

[Birdoprey]

you got me thinking,im a auto driveability mechanic and messed with a bunch of tuner cars over the years.i think you could run a small log style plenum-1 per bank and one small tb per bank.that would keep the air speed up during low engine speed to keep the motor from being lazy.then build a primary air chamber for high speed operation.basically the turbos would boost into the primary and the engine would run off boost from the secondary or log style chambers.in theory it would give you the best of both worlds.i helped set up a 406 inch twin turbo vette like this once.it made over 1200 rear wheel hp.it had accel dfi,a accell super ram and an air chamber both turbos fed into then into the tb and plenum.and it had crisp throttle response like a normally aspirated engine in spite of the lessened comp ratio and cam profile.that f-in thing was sick.ill have to see if i can dig up any pics of it.but this is doable and at this stage its only r and d anyway so what do i have to lose other than a little time and aluminum.right?that sucks mr kizer didnt do more research before he marketed a kit like that.if he sold a kit for a street bike he had to know people will pick it apart as its ridden on the road.i just got rid of my zx-7r.but i was going to stick an h-2 engine in that chassis -would have been alot of fun.thanks for letting me pick your brain.you have given me a direction i probably wouldnt have gone till i saw it wouldnt work that way.later mike

That would be better than one single plenum, but it seems to me it would be just as easy to run individual TB's. Velocity/response would still be better with the individual setup. Also, running two TB's would require figuring out linkage from one bank to the other, just like the 4 would.
Something to keep in mind, running a turbo will hurt your low end power some. No way around it. You can size the turbo small so it spools quicker, but off boost will still suffer vs no turbo. It may feel fine around town under normal driving conditions, but it is noticable when at the track and/or getting "frisky" with the throttle down low. Found this out with my Turbo Hayabusa. I ran a totally stk motor(stk compression too). My setup saw boost by 3500rpm and was at full boost by 4000rpm(6psi). Made 252 to the wheel on pump gas. Ran great around town, but when i took it to the track, i was dissapointed. Best i did out here in West Texas was 6.17 @ 115mph in the 1/8 pre-turbo. Motor was totally stk, exhaust was stk(pulled cans, thats it), stk airbox(flapper still active). Bike was lowered and at stk wheelbase. 60' was 1.54 on that pass lofting the front. I went back to the track later with the Bike setup was exactally the same other than adding the turbo. Best pass after that was 6.20 @ 128mph. 60' was 1.69! I had fits trying to get the bike to leave the line. The 1.69 60' was leaving ON BOOST. Try that on a stk wheelbased, 252rwhp bike! I was also using a gear based boost controller, and had boost limited to 4psi in 1st gear. Anyhow, riding around town i had no idea i lost that much, but under a load it was VERY apparant. Just something to keep in mind...

 

[blvdblaster1200]

That would be better than one single plenum, but it seems to me it would be just as easy to run individual TB's. Velocity/response would still be better with the individual setup. Also, running two TB's would require figuring out linkage from one bank to the other, just like the 4 would.
Something to keep in mind, running a turbo will hurt your low end power some. No way around it. You can size the turbo small so it spools quicker, but off boost will still suffer vs no turbo. It may feel fine around town under normal driving conditions, but it is noticable when at the track and/or getting "frisky" with the throttle down low. Found this out with my Turbo Hayabusa. I ran a totally stk motor(stk compression too). My setup saw boost by 3500rpm and was at full boost by 4000rpm(6psi). Made 252 to the wheel on pump gas. Ran great around town, but when i took it to the track, i was dissapointed. Best i did out here in West Texas was 6.17 @ 115mph in the 1/8 pre-turbo. Motor was totally stk, exhaust was stk(pulled cans, thats it), stk airbox(flapper still active). Bike was lowered and at stk wheelbase. 60' was 1.54 on that pass lofting the front. I went back to the track later with the Bike setup was exactally the same other than adding the turbo. Best pass after that was 6.20 @ 128mph. 60' was 1.69! I had fits trying to get the bike to leave the line. The 1.69 60' was leaving ON BOOST. Try that on a stk wheelbased, 252rwhp bike! I was also using a gear based boost controller, and had boost limited to 4psi in 1st gear. Anyhow, riding around town i had no idea i lost that much, but under a load it was VERY apparant. Just something to keep in mind...

yeah ive been around turbo stuff a good bit and yes they are harder to ride and a little slow on the low speed take.but i love boost and have always wanted to turbo a max.i love building my own set ups not buying kits.plus the kit for the max isnt something i would use anyway.this should be fun and its all in discussion at this point so who knows maybe ill make the two logs even smaller join them and use a single tb..and like you say there is always the individual tb route.those are plentiful and easy to come by.ill have lots of fun either way.those busas are a pain in the ass to launch anyway with that locking clutch they use.boost wont give you a big gain anyway till the big end.but ive seen 250 hp normally aspirated busas in the eigths.i love near the atlanta dragway and we go up there for test and tune quite often.there is one on the 17th of this month im going to run this bike ill be turboing at.to baseline it.

 

[Birdoprey]

I have quite a bit of experiance running Busa's. Nothing else setup the same can compare from what i've seen. Been a best of 1.51 60' at stk wheelbase. No weight added. Just lowered and regeared. The 99-00 Busa's were hard to launch with stk clutch setup, but in 01 they added a factory "cushion" and it helped tremendously. I've run a 04 Busa to a 1.55 60' with a totally stk clutch setup. Only added one of Brock Davidsons "clutch clushions" to consistantly get into the low 1.5's. Still no easy task.
I'm a big fan of turbos as well. I just don't have the $$$ or welding ability to build my own kit on the V-max. I've always bit and pieced my units. Changing up what i did'nt like. The turbo kit i just got for my V-max uses a S&S Super B carb. Not the best for street use. Planning to try a Mikuni HSR carb and see how that does. Would rather do a blow-through, with efi, but got a good deal on this and it should be a quick and fairly easy install. We shall see...

 

[blvdblaster1200]

thats with the rotomaster right?ive heard not much hp can be had with that system.inlet temps are going to be your problem there.gonna alcohol inject it?

 

[twistedmax]

heres a question for you guys with the wildbros EFI system,can you tell me where your throttle pump effect is set both for % of fuel and revolutions. for each of the three rpm ranges? IE: 10% for 9 sustained revolutions in the 0-2000, 8% for 6 sustained revs in the 2000-4000,and 6% for 6 sustained revs for the 4000 -6000 range. Im trying to dail mine in a little better,also which of the corrections are turned on for your set up.IE; battery only,battery and water temp or all three.?

 

[Rick52]

Wildbros EFI: 0-2000 rpm = 31% Acceleration and 20 crank rotation, 2000-4000 rpm = 28% crank rotation and 17% acceleration , 4000 rpm + = 17% accel and 16% crank rotation
Corrections are water remp, air temp and battery voltage . Anything less than 12v and you cannot power the efi ecu. Startup fuel to 500 rpm is at 3.9 milliseconds. Water temp is the more critical, generally adjust fuel for cold startup and gain for hot conditions. Add a little fuel at 210F to 220F to correct for lean conditions. Map adjustments required for significant temp changes outside. rick

 

[twistedmax]

thanks Rick,I under stand our maps are all different but Ill use all the info I get to make adjustments.your motor is bigger then mine.so you numbers are prolly biggger. the all corrections on is what gets me,my tunner had to shut off air temp corrections. what about you other guys?

 

[twistedmax]

A couple more ?s for you EFI guys,about what do your max's idle at cold,and then what do they level out at?and when I turn on my water temp correction it seems to be running fat, should I just leave it off? my bike always runs cold Im thinkin its just running to rich. in the garage not moving it will get hot, 114 degrees celcius,but never gets past 1/4 gauge( prolly100- 105 celcius) running down the rd. any thoughts guys?,Jim,Gary.anyone else?

 

[Thevmaxrider]

Hmmm that is odd. Toxic warms up normally and I have no problems. I have few changes planned when Toxic gets back. Turning off the air temp correction and going to correct a rich issue around 7k rpm. Might try Rick's throttle pump effect settings just to see how my bike likes them. Have the A/F ratio gauge hooked up too so I can tune on the fly.

 

[twistedmax]

Jim,toxic starts and runs at the same rpm? doesnt idle low till she warms up ,then around 1100?and what about inlet temp correction,with that on doesnt it run extra fuel untill it gets warm? then leans it out.

 

[Thevmaxrider]

It doesn't idle too low when cold. Set your warm idle at ~1200rpm and go from there. Cold it idles about ~1-1100rpm.

 

[twistedmax]

thanks Jim next time Im playing Ill reset idle hot to 1200,higher then i like but if thats what it takes,Ill do it. right now shes set at 1100 hot.Ill have to resync?

 

[Thevmaxrider]

I resynch at the start of the season anyhow and check it periodically as the season goes on. Cleaned my air filter pods tonight as they were disgusting. I set my idle that high after talking to Bill Warner about it. He said to set it ~1200-1300rpm.

 

[twistedmax]

Ok EFI guys one more ?, water temp correction on or off ?,its going to warm up this weekend !if its on it will get leaner as it heats up ,right?but what happens if its off.does it stay runing fat? help me understand ....PLEASE!

 

[Thevmaxrider]

I am leaving mine on. It gets leaner up to a point, but over ~220F or so it starts to richen up a bit again to prevent damage to the engine if my memory serves me correctly. Will look at the manual today and post again.

 

[twistedmax]

manual? you have a manual ,that explains how the system works?

 

[Thevmaxrider]

Yes, in .pdf form as well. Too big to attach here so PM me an email addy and I will send it to you.

 

[gamorg02]

i think rick just about **** himself

 

[twistedmax]

HELP!ok here we go,first off im not a stupid guy,I understand how a engine works ; air in ,gas in,some spark,an explosion, run. Im have a problem with my EFI and bill insistes its not with the computer but with the map.

Same map has been running GOOD for weeks.I washed the bike sunday and it wont start on it own since.when I say on its own I mean there is no fuel pulse so it wont start without staring fluid,with a little squirt of starteing fluid it will start and run and excellerate fine.shut it off and it wont start.

now heres the part that I cant seem to get through to bill. when the bike is cranking there is NO FUEL,like theres a glitch in the computer for the under 500 rpm injection pulse,turn the throttle still no fuel ( still turning under 500 rpm) lap top pluged in reads no pulse or rpm.squirt it shell fire and run.and the laptop shows rpm and fuel impulse time. what do I do. there is gas in the tank,the relay is good because the pump IS WORKING and the gauge reads 45-50 lbs fuel preasure

Im planning on attending the BR 2010 even if the bikes in the back of my truck,Im unvailing a new.................... for the first gen max and one way or another Ill be there but Id REALLY LIKE TO RIDE IN.

IV takin the injector harness off dried it out, cleaned and dried all conections,tried per advice of Bill, to increase start up pulse but IT DOESNT MATTER ITS NOT GETTING A SINGNAL,untill after it starts.

If I cant figure it out between now and then , any of you think youd might like to take a look see at the BR 2010.thats if your not too distracted by my new...............

thanks and lookin forward to meeting some of you guys.