For sale: slightly-used AUDI

[Fire-medic]

How many times have you seen such an accident? Or, a narrowly-avoided accident? This AUDI driver showed a lack of common sense, and surely didn't look far-enough down the road to see his lane ended.

 

[Pighuntingpuppy]

To be fair....I never seen anyone who drives a Euro vehicle to show common sense. They all drive like they are entitled and better than everyone else. I see this as "car"ma.

 

[MaxMidnight]

To be fair....I never seen anyone who drives a Euro vehicle to show common sense. They all drive like they are entitled and better than everyone else. I see this as "car"ma.

It's always a pleasure to read a well reasoned and thoughtful point of view...shame this isn't one of them.

 

[Pighuntingpuppy]

It's always a pleasure to read a well reasoned and thoughtful point of view...shame this isn't one of them.

Dont take my word for it then. Read this....

https://money.yahoo.com/cars-worst-drivers-own-131920479.html
Scroll down for the top 2 worst drivers that get tickets and/or been in accidents. If you dont want to read....Its BMW and Audi.

You may not agree with me....but the stats and figures show that I am right.

 

[MaxMidnight]

Quotes from article:
'BMW drivers were selected as both the best and worst drivers according to our survey.'..on that basis you must have seen a good BMW driver.
'Survey respondents think those who drive red cars are the worst drivers, but in reality, it's drivers of white cars who have the most traffic violations.'...Non European manufacturers don't sell white vehicles?
'Those who self-identify as the best drivers (10/10) have gotten more tickets, gotten pulled over more, and been in more accidents than all other driver skill levels.'..drivers of non European vehicles don't rate themselves as good drivers?

Thank you for directing me to the table of worst driven manufacturers vehicles where I find that non European account for 39.48% and European vehicles 16.44%. Perhaps you could remind me again of the point you were trying to make?

There are lies, damn lies and those who distort statistics you reinforce their prejudices. Are you a politician by any chance?

 

[Pighuntingpuppy]

Americans don't drive euros as much as Europeans don't drive American vehicles. So when a small percentage of euro owners are causing chaos on the road....that's cause for concern.

 

[MaxMidnight]

Americans don't drive euros as much as Europeans don't drive American vehicles. So when a small percentage of euro owners are causing chaos on the road....that's cause for concern.

...and the majority of Americans driving US built cars causing chaos isn't a concern?

ANY bad driver regardless of what they are driving should be an issue.
To try and put the blame on where the vehicle is manufactured is, IMO, is either a breathtaking example of not understanding the causal factors or an attempt to try and create division where there are none.

 

[Pighuntingpuppy]

Euro owners get pulled over 2-3 time more than domestic owners. These were facts whether you want to acknowledge them or not.

I can pull up proof after proof after proof. You simply don't want to acknowledge the fact that I'm right when it comes to Euro owners in America driving like absolute _____. (inappropriate content deleted by moderator) To further the point...you just saw a video of an Audi owner doing exactly what they are known for. Driving like entitled shills.

You can deny all you want. The facts are the facts and the proof is all over.

 

[Flyerdon]

Perhaps the point that is trying to be made is that many drivers who pilot expensive cars aren't necessarily the best drivers, due to a feeling of importance. Don't really know, but it does seem like some people who drive the most opulent looking vehicles aren't very good drivers.

 

[Drifter2406]

It's always a pleasure to read a well reasoned and thoughtful point of view...shame this isn't one of them.

Well said.

 

[Mr. Max]

Audi, BMW and MB drivers drive mostly like lunatic a-holes here in Europe as well so this is global phenomena. No blinkers, tailgating, dangerous overtaking and parking "where ever" is the thing with these.

 

[MaxMidnight]

Euro owners get pulled over 2-3 time more than domestic owners. These were facts whether you want to acknowledge them or not.

I can pull up proof after proof after proof. You simply don't want to acknowledge the fact that I'm right when it comes to Euro owners in America driving like absolute *****. To further the point...you just saw a video of an Audi owner doing exactly what they are known for. Driving like entitled shills.

You can deny all you want. The facts are the facts and the proof is all over.

It would seem that you weren't paying attention when big numbers and percentages were being taught so let me try and help you.

Of the brands that were cited for being pulled over, 9.01% were BMW and Audi whereas 18.03% were the other makes.
Of the brands that were cited for receiving tickets, 9.06% were BMW and Audi whereas 13.38% were the other makes.
Of the brands that were cited for being in accidents, 6.38% were BMW and Audi whereas 9.15% were the other makes.

On any of the above metrics a non European car is less likely to be pulled over, receive a ticket or be involved in an accident.

If we take the number of vehicles the manufacturers sold in 2021 as a base then even more non European cars are likely to have been involved in any of the above.

BMW and Audi sold 566704 units versus 10095366 units or 5.3% of the total and to put numerical values on the above that equates to (based on 2021 sales):

Of the brands that were cited for being pulled over,51060 were BMW and Audi whereas 1820194 were the other makes.
Of the brands that were cited for receiving tickets, 51343 were BMW and Audi whereas 1350759 were the other makes.
Of the brands that were cited for being in accidents, 36156 were BMW and Audi whereas 923725 were the other makes.

I accept that basing data on 2021 sales figures wont give a truly accurate picture but assuming the market shares have not changed significantly over recent years they are unlikely to be that far out.

I'm sorry to spoil your delusional ranting and you are right, the facts are there but not the ones you want to believe.

PS What is an 'entitled shill'?

 

[rrego]

They probably still don't know what the short dash road markings mean.

 

[Pighuntingpuppy]

It would seem that you weren't paying attention when big numbers and percentages were being taught so let me try and help you.

Of the brands that were cited for being pulled over, 9.01% were BMW and Audi whereas 18.03% were the other makes.
Of the brands that were cited for receiving tickets, 9.06% were BMW and Audi whereas 13.38% were the other makes.
Of the brands that were cited for being in accidents, 6.38% were BMW and Audi whereas 9.15% were the other makes.

On any of the above metrics a non European car is less likely to be pulled over, receive a ticket or be involved in an accident.

If we take the number of vehicles the manufacturers sold in 2021 as a base then even more non European cars are likely to have been involved in any of the above.

BMW and Audi sold 566704 units versus 10095366 units or 5.3% of the total and to put numerical values on the above that equates to (based on 2021 sales):

Of the brands that were cited for being pulled over,51060 were BMW and Audi whereas 1820194 were the other makes.
Of the brands that were cited for receiving tickets, 51343 were BMW and Audi whereas 1350759 were the other makes.
Of the brands that were cited for being in accidents, 36156 were BMW and Audi whereas 923725 were the other makes.

I accept that basing data on 2021 sales figures wont give a truly accurate picture but assuming the market shares have not changed significantly over recent years they are unlikely to be that far out.

I'm sorry to spoil your delusional ranting and you are right, the facts are there but not the ones you want to believe.

PS What is an 'entitled shill'?

OK...So "other makes" equates to how many other manufacturers? 2 car companies vs I dunno.....15 or 20? What is Chevrolet getting pulled over at a rate of? What about Toyota? Honda? Ford? These are a fraction of the 18% being pulled over the 13% receiving tickets and 9% in accidents. Lets say BMW is getting pulled over at 4.5% and Audi at 4.5% Chevrolet isnt getting pulled over at 18% Ford isnt either. Nor is Honda Toyota or Nissan. Easy to lump a number to a crapload of manufacturers compared to 2.

https://insurify.com/insights/car-brands-rudest-drivers/https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/who-americas-worst-drivers-david-thileniushttps://www.engineerine.com/2022/06/why-bmw-drivers-are-worst-on-road.htmlhttps://www.click4reg.co.uk/blog/who-are-best-and-worst-drivers/https://www.thesun.co.uk/sun-men/9313658/which-car-brands-worst-drivers/https://leasecar.uk/blog/what-does-your-car-say-about-your-driving/
I can go on and on and on and on about this. Whenever I bring this up....the ones that fight the most fervently are the ones I am most often making the claim about. And with TONS of studies out there not only in America, but the UK....the consensus is in. Euro drivers think they are entitled shills.


en·ti·tled
/inˈtīdld,enˈtīdld/
Learn to pronounce
adjective
believing oneself to be inherently deserving of privileges or special treatment.
"kids who feel so entitled and think the world will revolve around them"


Definition of shill (Entry 1 of 2)
intransitive verb

1: to act as a shill
2: to act as a spokesperson or promoter
the eminent Shakespearean producer … is now shilling for a brokerage house

shill noun
Definition of shill (Entry 2 of 2)
1a: one who acts as a decoy (as for a pitchman or gambler)
b: one who makes a sales pitch or serves as a promoter

 

[MadMark]

How many times have you seen such an accident? Or, a narrowly-avoided accident? This AUDI driver showed a lack of common sense, and surely didn't look far-enough down the road to see his lane ended.

You don't even know, I help build highways for a living. Been doing it for over 25yrs. I think I've seen it all, the job I was on last year for 2yrs had at least 4 or 5 fatalities. The job I'm on now in Indianapolis In , it's called 65/70 North Split. Been there for over 2yrs an there's been at least 12 wrecks. Last week somebody in an excavator, tore down a power line. That went across 6 lanes on I70.

How many times have you seen such an accident? Or, a narrowly-avoided accident? This AUDI driver showed a lack of common sense, and surely didn't look far-enough down the road to see his lane ended.

 

[MaxMidnight]

OK...So "other makes" equates to how many other manufacturers? 2 car companies vs I dunno.....15 or 20? What is Chevrolet getting pulled over at a rate of? What about Toyota? Honda? Ford? These are a fraction of the 18% being pulled over the 13% receiving tickets and 9% in accidents. Lets say BMW is getting pulled over at 4.5% and Audi at 4.5% Chevrolet isnt getting pulled over at 18% Ford isnt either. Nor is Honda Toyota or Nissan. Easy to lump a number to a crapload of manufacturers compared to 2.

https://insurify.com/insights/car-brands-rudest-drivers/https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/who-americas-worst-drivers-david-thileniushttps://www.engineerine.com/2022/06/why-bmw-drivers-are-worst-on-road.htmlhttps://www.click4reg.co.uk/blog/who-are-best-and-worst-drivers/https://www.thesun.co.uk/sun-men/9313658/which-car-brands-worst-drivers/https://leasecar.uk/blog/what-does-your-car-say-about-your-driving/
I can go on and on and on and on about this. Whenever I bring this up....the ones that fight the most fervently are the ones I am most often making the claim about. And with TONS of studies out there not only in America, but the UK....the consensus is in. Euro drivers think they are entitled shills.


en·ti·tled
/inˈtīdld,enˈtīdld/
Learn to pronounce
adjective
believing oneself to be inherently deserving of privileges or special treatment.
"kids who feel so entitled and think the world will revolve around them"


Definition of shill (Entry 1 of 2)
intransitive verb

1: to act as a shill
2: to act as a spokesperson or promoter
the eminent Shakespearean producer … is now shilling for a brokerage house

shill noun
Definition of shill (Entry 2 of 2)
1a: one who acts as a decoy (as for a pitchman or gambler)
b: one who makes a sales pitch or serves as a promoter

Oh dear, it seems your attention span wasn't enough to grasp the difference between percentages and numbers.

I'll try again (and then probably give up as a lost cause)....a big percentage of a small number is still a small number.
A small percentage of a big number is still a big number.

From that if we look at the volume of vehicles on the road (and using the examples in my previous posts) are we more likely to come across a badly driven BMW or Audi or a badly driven US or Asian vehicle? Do you want a clue? I isn't BMW or Audi. Yep, you are more than twenty five time more likely to see a US or Asian vehicle involved in an accident.
Who are the bad drivers?

I should also point out that there is a difference between perception and reality. Much of the sites you cite base their data on the perception of how drivers conduct themselves. There is also the 'journalistic licence' where they need a good banner headline to try and attract readers.
Just because someone perceives something as true that doesn't mean it is. Just because you think you are right it doesn't mean you are.
I prefer to base my opinions on the factual data that I can lay my hands on.
I adopt the same approach when diagnosing a fault - establish the facts and move on from there.
In addition to that (and this may come as a shock to you ) not everything you read in the papers or on line is true.
Could there also be a conspiracy against European made vehicles - don't rule it out, conspiracies seem to be quite popular in the US.

And finally perhaps you could point me in the direction of where the Euro car drivers are acting as a spokesperson's or promoters or acting as decoys (and for what?)

You continue with peddling your prejudiced twaddle - I'll base my opinions on the facts.

 

[Pighuntingpuppy]

Oh dear, it seems your attention span wasn't enough to grasp the difference between percentages and numbers.

I'll try again (and then probably give up as a lost cause)....a big percentage of a small number is still a small number.
A small percentage of a big number is still a big number.

From that if we look at the volume of vehicles on the road (and using the examples in my previous posts) are we more likely to come across a badly driven BMW or Audi or a badly driven US or Asian vehicle? Do you want a clue? I isn't BMW or Audi. Yep, you are more than twenty five time more likely to see a US or Asian vehicle involved in an accident.
Who are the bad drivers?

I should also point out that there is a difference between perception and reality. Much of the sites you cite base their data on the perception of how drivers conduct themselves. There is also the 'journalistic licence' where they need a good banner headline to try and attract readers.
Just because someone perceives something as true that doesn't mean it is. Just because you think you are right it doesn't mean you are.
I prefer to base my opinions on the factual data that I can lay my hands on.
I adopt the same approach when diagnosing a fault - establish the facts and move on from there.
In addition to that (and this may come as a shock to you ) not everything you read in the papers or on line is true.
Could there also be a conspiracy against European made vehicles - don't rule it out, conspiracies seem to be quite popular in the US.

And finally perhaps you could point me in the direction of where the Euro car drivers are acting as a spokesperson's or promoters or acting as decoys (and for what?)

You continue with peddling your prejudiced twaddle - I'll base my opinions on the facts.

I'll join your side if you can answer this....why are there so many people around the world making these claims about euro drivers? Is it some world conspiracy to be hating on these drivers? Are they really better drivers than EVERYONE is making them out to be? Why does the world "perceive" Euro drivers to be bad drivers?

 

[MaxMidnight]

I'll join your side if you can answer this....why are there so many people around the world making these claims about euro drivers? Is it some world conspiracy to be hating on these drivers? Are they really better drivers than EVERYONE is making them out to be? Why does the world "perceive" Euro drivers to be bad drivers?

Like most things in life there won't be one single factor.

The first thing to question is that 'there so many people around the world making these claims about euro drivers?' How many is 'so many' and proportion of the population does that represent? Is it a significant percentage of the worlds drivers and if so what is it?

In the US, and I suspect in general where Euro cars (or do you mean BMW and Audi?) are less common than the volume manufacturers. Therefore when one is perceived to be driven poorly they are more likely to be remembered. Are more likely to recall being cut up by a big and shiny BMW or Audi driven by a smart business man than the beat up ten tear old saloon of which you see many on the road?
Also, there is a Urban Myth surrounding these vehicles which would serve to reinforce the perception of the drivers.

I agree that there are good drivers and there are bad drivers.
I see prestige cars being driven well and badly.
However, I see far more bad drivers who are driving a volume manufacturers vehicle, old duffers, young driving God's, wives taking the kids to school, the list goes on and on.

Fortunately, I am a perfect driver so I can comment on the failings of others and how moronic most of them are and that if they were as good as me accidents would be eliminated and there would be no need for traffic laws....now what was it I was saying about the gap between perception and reality?????!

 

[Pighuntingpuppy]

See....you ask how many is many....i provided you with NUMEROUS links of different varieties. You provide none. Clearly if people across the years are making the same claim....there has to be either a huge conspiracy of some sort against these drivers or there's truth.

When a company is putting out 10 million cars a year....i would fully expect that companies drivers to have a higher rate of accidents and tickets. But when a company is making 1.6 million cars( Audi: worldwide sales 2021) and 2.2 million(BMW: worldwide sales 2021) a year and they are accounting for a large portion of tickets and accidents...maybe the facts and perception are on to something more.

Toyota, Hyundai, Ford, GM all are high volume manufacturers.....8-10 million vehicles a year. So yes...10% of 40 million vehicles is gonna be more overall in raw numbers. But 10% of 4 million shows a problem with a batch of certain drivers.

Example.....perception....crotch rocket riders are dangerous riders. Reality...cruiser/tourer riders are more dangerous. They get into more accidents resulting in injury and death(in the USA) 3 times more than a crotch rocket rider. Since you dismiss everything i put, there's no point providing anymore links. In America 5500 people lost their lives on motorcycles. Sports bikes among age groups 16-30 and 31-40 were roughly 250(ish). For each group. Cruiser bikes for age group 50+ was 750(ish) all by itself. Does this mean Cruiser riders are worse riders? Or does this mean there simply are more cruisers than sports bikes? I would expect cruisers to be involved with more death as they account for over 50%(in the US) of the market. Sports bikes by and large are ridden by the same type of people who drive Euros. Yes...there are exceptions. Overall....people see these certain vehicles...they aren't automatically thinking there's an upstanding citizen about to obet the law. That's why Audi's, BMWs, and sports bikes have such higher insurance rates overall.

 

[MaxMidnight]

Clearly you don't understand numbers so go back and look at post #12 and try and answer the following:

• As a percentage do BMW/ Audi or US/ Asian manufacturers have the highest percentage of being pulled over, receiving tickets or being in accidents.

I'll give you a clue - it wasn't BMW or Audi.

• Numerically was it BMW/ Audi or US/ Asian manufacturers have the highest percentage of being pulled over, receiving tickets or being in accidents.

Another clue - it wasn't BMW or Audi.

As you allege BMW drivers are so bad can you also explain how they were also considered to be the best? An inconvenient truth (?) if you believe all you read.