1st Gen V-Max Fully restored 1986 Vmax
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Parminio
Well-Known Member
Very nice bike, but nowhere near "fully restored". A great deal of that bike didn't come on an '86. (Polished scoops, cam covers are the wrong color, wrong windscreen, wrong wheel color, calipers are wrong color, etc.)
Other than the polished scoops, those details look just like my '86.
Beautiful job!
Beautiful job!
Everything is right for an 86 besides polished scoops and windscreen and it if it was wrong it does not say restored to factory specifications the bike looks great !
Yes I like it. Over-restored? That's a personal choice. I like polished or chromed scoops. On a black bike, they add to the appearance.
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I like the bike and its looking great. And a very nice watchdog taking care!
Parminio
Well-Known Member
He said restoration, not rebuilt or refurbished. There's a big, huge, colossal difference between the two, hence my comment. A restoration means to exact, 100% factory spec from the tires to the engine to the upholstery to the speedometer to the clips that hold the brake lines in place.
https://precisioncarrestoration.com/car-restoration-vs-refurbishment/
https://precisioncarrestoration.com/car-restoration-vs-refurbishment/
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Dorney
Well-Known Member
I SEE YOU DIDN"T LEARN A THING!!!!!
PATMAX
Well-Known Member
“Concourse” restoration is the highest of restorations resulting in better than brand new from the factory. So I “rebuild” Vmaxes. I sand the casting flash on unseen areas of aluminum parts, I relieve sharp corners and round off sharp edges for things getting new finishes simply so it helps hold a finish and not start a thin area of paint, chrome, powdercoat whatever. I polish nuts and bolts that were just raw from the factory. I use an Oddessy battery and other functional upgrades. Is it it restored ? Is it over restored ? Is it simply cleaned up and reassembled? In the end I don’t give a ****. A clean and proper Max is what I want. I do not compete and always appreciate and “Clean” bike.
I thought that I was the only one who did all that! I agree 100% with your thinking!
MileHayabusa
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Another thread circling the toilet because people get wrapped-up in semantics and minutia and just can't let it go...
To the OP, great looking bike regardless of whatever someone feels compelled to label it.
To the OP, great looking bike regardless of whatever someone feels compelled to label it.
Whatever the terms an owner uses, I'd say that when you take receipt of a new to you bike, and you refinish it to your taste, that process can legitimately be called, or referred to, as a 'restoration.'
The term concours was used. In the auto world, and probably the motorcycle world, concours is generally referred to as, "when it left the factory." Does the Yamaha of any type have Hamamatsu air in the tires? What's that, you say? You live in Denver, and you just fitted Dunlop F20 / K525 Qualifier tires? OEM tires, but not of the year of the bike's manufacture (those would be hard as rocks) and Mile-High nitrogen/O2? Are you gonna be docked points at a concours judging? I don't know what rules govern such events, to parse the question. However, if someone wants to polish castings, to remove casting flashing, and to paint the machine a non-standard non-OEM color code, and puts on a 43mm front suspension instead of the 1985-'89 OEM 40mm front end, I'm OK with the restoration, even though it's not exactly as it rolled off the assembly line 37 years ago. It's in better shape than it was when the new owner got it, and with updated parts, it should perform better. Refurbished, restored, repaired, concours... choose a bike, choose a term to describe your work, and if you enter an AMCA concours and are deducted points because it's not original in how you did the work, I doubt that matters to the proud owner who enjoys his/her ride home.
I have a friend who restores C1, C2, and C3 Corvettes. He's a stickler for getting things correct, he has all-sorts of trophies for his work. More-importantly, he is paid six figures by customers to restore their Corvettes. He uses his 1967 tri-power big-block as his calling card. He often doesn't enter the shows, because his customers enter the same shows, and he wants to see them garner the trophies. "Why would I want to compete against my customers?" he says. "I make a very-good living doing this!"
What's your goal? Refinishing a vehicle/motorcycle to 'as it left the factory' condition? Or improving on the conveyance to suit your needs and taste? I agree that a description of 'concours' is as it left the factory, while 'restoration' can be anything you want as you repair mechanicals, and replace worn items, and if you want to throw onto your 454 1970 El Camino/Sprint a GMC 6-71, and tub the rear end and use a nodular 9" Ford rear end, with Strange axles and a true parallel 4-link, expect to be downgraded in a concours. Heck, they probably would refuse to allow you to enter, unless the work was done in 1970, and it was raced then in that shape (axles replaced later for safety). However, on the ride home who's going to have more fun? The guy pulling his trailer queen on the flatbed, or the "I drove it here" enthusiast?
First pic, 1969 Corvette restoration, including a non-AC car being switched to an all-GM AC system.
Two guys happily headed home with a new bike to 'restore, or to return to concours?'
That-there's a cast-iron V-10 in the Mopar engine bay, yes, that's how it came from the factory.
Concours, or 'patina?' They say, "it's only factory-original once." Lately, both bikes and cars are selling for more in unrestored shape than are restored ones, though the ones falling into this category are valuable to begin-with. This Knucklehead has plenty of character/patina. 'Cleaning it up' could greatly-devalue it in today's marketplace.
The term concours was used. In the auto world, and probably the motorcycle world, concours is generally referred to as, "when it left the factory." Does the Yamaha of any type have Hamamatsu air in the tires? What's that, you say? You live in Denver, and you just fitted Dunlop F20 / K525 Qualifier tires? OEM tires, but not of the year of the bike's manufacture (those would be hard as rocks) and Mile-High nitrogen/O2? Are you gonna be docked points at a concours judging? I don't know what rules govern such events, to parse the question. However, if someone wants to polish castings, to remove casting flashing, and to paint the machine a non-standard non-OEM color code, and puts on a 43mm front suspension instead of the 1985-'89 OEM 40mm front end, I'm OK with the restoration, even though it's not exactly as it rolled off the assembly line 37 years ago. It's in better shape than it was when the new owner got it, and with updated parts, it should perform better. Refurbished, restored, repaired, concours... choose a bike, choose a term to describe your work, and if you enter an AMCA concours and are deducted points because it's not original in how you did the work, I doubt that matters to the proud owner who enjoys his/her ride home.
I have a friend who restores C1, C2, and C3 Corvettes. He's a stickler for getting things correct, he has all-sorts of trophies for his work. More-importantly, he is paid six figures by customers to restore their Corvettes. He uses his 1967 tri-power big-block as his calling card. He often doesn't enter the shows, because his customers enter the same shows, and he wants to see them garner the trophies. "Why would I want to compete against my customers?" he says. "I make a very-good living doing this!"
What's your goal? Refinishing a vehicle/motorcycle to 'as it left the factory' condition? Or improving on the conveyance to suit your needs and taste? I agree that a description of 'concours' is as it left the factory, while 'restoration' can be anything you want as you repair mechanicals, and replace worn items, and if you want to throw onto your 454 1970 El Camino/Sprint a GMC 6-71, and tub the rear end and use a nodular 9" Ford rear end, with Strange axles and a true parallel 4-link, expect to be downgraded in a concours. Heck, they probably would refuse to allow you to enter, unless the work was done in 1970, and it was raced then in that shape (axles replaced later for safety). However, on the ride home who's going to have more fun? The guy pulling his trailer queen on the flatbed, or the "I drove it here" enthusiast?
First pic, 1969 Corvette restoration, including a non-AC car being switched to an all-GM AC system.
Two guys happily headed home with a new bike to 'restore, or to return to concours?'
That-there's a cast-iron V-10 in the Mopar engine bay, yes, that's how it came from the factory.
Concours, or 'patina?' They say, "it's only factory-original once." Lately, both bikes and cars are selling for more in unrestored shape than are restored ones, though the ones falling into this category are valuable to begin-with. This Knucklehead has plenty of character/patina. 'Cleaning it up' could greatly-devalue it in today's marketplace.
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Woody
Well-Known Member
Nice Looking vmax.
In my book that would be customisation or upgrading.
To me, restoration is repair or bringing back to original condition.
So for example, if someone repaintd the engine using paint that matches the original factory paint due to it flaking off, that's restoration.
Of course ad pointed out, it is never simple ad what do you call polishing the exposed alloy parts to a mirror finish?
Concourse preparation? as it goes beyond the condition that it left the factory.
Anyways, it is a nice looking bike.
Woody
Well-Known Member
Polished scoops look better than stock finish. And lighter than chrome. (Will the fish bite)
Parminio
Well-Known Member
Wrong.
That is called a rebuild or refurbishment.
Believe it or not, they are actually legal terms when it comes to selling things. If you try to sell something as "restored" and it isn't, it's just refurbished or rebuilt, it's called fraud.
That's why high end auctions have to verify pedigree on cars, bikes and trucks to make sure everything matches. If they don't, they open themselves up for a law suit should someone sell a refurbished car, bike, whatever for the price of a restored car, bike, whatever.
They are literally two completely and entirely different things. IF you ever actually owned, sold or bought one or were ever interested in doing so, that is.
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desert_max
Well-Known Member
Must be a lot of fraud going on at Barrett Jackson and Pebble Beach. Few cars ever achieve a 1000 point grade - often due to non-original parts being substituted, yet they're sure sold as restored.
Why are we even having this conversation? Oh yeah... Never mind. My bad.
Why are we even having this conversation? Oh yeah... Never mind. My bad.
desert_max
Well-Known Member
I am pretty big on details. Small details. Cleanliness is a detail. Shiny bits where once there were not is a detail. Removal of superfluous stuff. (think rubber cam cover shields). The almost universal sloppy welding on the Gen1 frames has always bothered me. Never enough to smooth them out, but I've thought about it. (But certainly not because I would be afraid that it could never be "restored" after that). Sometimes small details overlooked by the manufacturer beg to be tended. And Kenji Ekuan might even be somewhere nodding and stroking his beard.
As it stands today, the Gen1 Vmax is not a rare beast. There are plenty of original survivors around. Make them better. Restore. Refurbish. Restify. Rehabilitate. Reinstate. Reinstitute. Ressurect. Take your pick. A rose by any other name.
Parminio
Well-Known Member
https://komonews.com/news/consumer/local-car-dealer-sued-over-classic-car-sold-at-auction
https://www.barrett-jackson.com/Med...pany-announces-settlement-of-defamation-suit/
https://www.eastvalleytribune.com/n...cle_cc1082ac-b7ba-5f17-83de-6e265572cecc.html
https://www.motortrend.com/features...llection-cars-at-barrettjackson-auction-2347/
I could go on for YEARS. Barrett Jackson are sued all the time for that very thing. They have a long, extended history of fraud and have paid out millions of dollars in settlements over it through the decades.
The same thing happens in the antique furniture industry as well. People who "refinish" an antique ruin its value. There are rules to what you can and can't do.
You can fabricate a kind for kind set of floor pans for instance if GM / Ford / Whoever doesn't have any left. But what you can't do is put a stipe kit for a GTO Judge on a car that was never a Judge package from the factory and then sell it as a GTO Judge.
You also can't put a motor in a car that wasn't an option in that car and call that a "restored" car.
You can't put new Enkei wheels on it and call it a restored car.
You can't put the hood of a 73 on a 71 and call it a restored car. It has to be kind for kind. It's really just that simple.
But once again this is just factual information that for some reason people that love to just spout out complete falsehoods and pretend facts don't matter at all get completely bent out of shape over when you point it out.
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