Gas with Ethenol

[RaWarrior]

The star-tron, like sea-foam is over 95% plain old naphtha aka camp stove fuel. It's a petroleum solvent. You can buy gallons of it at wally world for far, far cheaper than seafoam or startron when all it's missing is some blue dye and a marketing campaign.

In the "big picture" adding a few percent ethanol to our fuel makes such an utterly insignificant difference in overall greenhouse gas emissions it's not worth anybody's time. Cow farts do more "damage" to the environment every day than all the motor vehicles in the world. One volcano eruption can release enough "harmful gasses" as years of current fossil fuel combustion. And of course nobody mentions that since the ethanol contains less energy, you're burning more of it, negating any "benefit". It's like eating two bowls of light ice cream instead of one regular one and thinking you're losing weight. It's not saving the planet, it's political bullshit.

The simplest solution to e10 fuel is not pouring in additives or driving across the state to find e-free fuel. It's not letting your bike sit around for ages. Start it up once in a while in the off season and you'll be fine. My bike ran perfectly fine on e10 fuel that had been in there since last October.....so people claiming their bike runs like crap after a week are fooling themselves.

 

[max_caper]

Going to be hard to cast that special someone to play the role of gamorg02's wife. Not too many ladies like to play in explosive situations. Wait a minute, how about Hillary Clinton? Hey gamorg02, would you like to shoot your love scenes with Hillary before or after her little mishap with the gasoline?

Any deserts in New England yet?

Blaine

 

[gamorg02]

Going to be hard to cast that special someone to play the role of gamorg02's wife. Not too many ladies like to play in explosive situations. Wait a minute, how about Hillary Clinton? Hey gamorg02, would you like to shoot your love scenes with Hillary before or after her little mishap with the gasoline?

Any deserts in New England yet?

Blaine

haha, i don't know if i'd be able to tell the difference before or after!

no deserts yet.. i'll keep the lookout tho.

 

[4gasem]

The star-tron, like sea-foam is over 95% plain old naphtha aka camp stove fuel. It's a petroleum solvent. You can buy gallons of it at wally world for far, far cheaper than seafoam or startron when all it's missing is some blue dye and a marketing campaign.

In the "big picture" adding a few percent ethanol to our fuel makes such an utterly insignificant difference in overall greenhouse gas emissions it's not worth anybody's time. Cow farts do more "damage" to the environment every day than all the motor vehicles in the world. One volcano eruption can release enough "harmful gasses" as years of current fossil fuel combustion. And of course nobody mentions that since the ethanol contains less energy, you're burning more of it, negating any "benefit". It's like eating two bowls of light ice cream instead of one regular one and thinking you're losing weight. It's not saving the planet, it's political bullshit.

The simplest solution to e10 fuel is not pouring in additives or driving across the state to find e-free fuel. It's not letting your bike sit around for ages. Start it up once in a while in the off season and you'll be fine. My bike ran perfectly fine on e10 fuel that had been in there since last October.....so people claiming their bike runs like crap after a week are fooling themselves.

Sounds good... I'd love to have someone test your theory. Until then, I'll be using the Star-Tron. It works... I have ZERO issues now and I had issues with our boat and my Max all the time before that.

It's cheap and easy to pour in and IT WORKS. Oh and not sure what you mean by blue dye... I'm guessing you've not used Star-Tron if you think it's blue. IT'S CLEAR.

Chris

 

[alorio1]

Very intresting, what is the ratio per gallon of fuel ?

The star-tron, like sea-foam is over 95% plain old naphtha aka camp stove fuel. It's a petroleum solvent. You can buy gallons of it at wally world for far, far cheaper than seafoam or startron when all it's missing is some blue dye and a marketing campaign.

In the "big picture" adding a few percent ethanol to our fuel makes such an utterly insignificant difference in overall greenhouse gas emissions it's not worth anybody's time. Cow farts do more "damage" to the environment every day than all the motor vehicles in the world. One volcano eruption can release enough "harmful gasses" as years of current fossil fuel combustion. And of course nobody mentions that since the ethanol contains less energy, you're burning more of it, negating any "benefit". It's like eating two bowls of light ice cream instead of one regular one and thinking you're losing weight. It's not saving the planet, it's political bullshit.

The simplest solution to e10 fuel is not pouring in additives or driving across the state to find e-free fuel. It's not letting your bike sit around for ages. Start it up once in a while in the off season and you'll be fine. My bike ran perfectly fine on e10 fuel that had been in there since last October.....so people claiming their bike runs like crap after a week are fooling themselves.

 

[SpecOps13]

I know I may eventually be unable to get Non Ethanol here.. So I'm taking what you all are saying to heart in preparation for that day. Ya gotta do something to treat the Ethanol, My Brother in Law is getting rich on Boats, Bikes and Cars/Trucks from people who just use Ethanol Gas blindly. He's showed me how it destroys fuel tanks, fuel lines carbs and injectors that weren't designed for it's use.

I heard someone say they didn't believe people saying they see the bad effects of Ethanol in just weeks. I can fill Strafer up while on a trip and as soon as the gas hits the carbs, she runs like shit and will need to be blipped at lights so she won't stall. Soon as I get home and dump the remaining gas and refill with Non Ethanol, the effects will clear right up....

 

[VMAX NV]

So if I buy non-ethanol gas I don't need any Startron/Seafoam/Stabil? There is a station 7 miles from my house.

edit-just read another thread-says red stabil for non-e gas and blue for gas with E. Hmmm...

 

[SpecOps13]

I use Red Stabil or Sea Foam with Non Ethanol, just for the safe factor. I have 3 bikes and sometimes one will sit in the corner for a while... They all run great on Non Ethanol...

 

[4gasem]

Anyone of those three are great for storage no matter the gas you use.


Sent from my iPhone4 using special algorithms and data nodes!

 

[RaWarrior]

Sounds good... I'd love to have someone test your theory.

Chris

It's not really a theory, it's on the MSDS. The "proprietary organic compounds" make up less than .5% (either a typo, or the other 4.5% is a recognized as safe compound and unlisted). That organic stuff must be something real special if less than half a percent of stuff added at 1oz per 6gal has any effect whatsoever. That's about a tenth of a ml of "active ingredient", or about 1/4 a drop. You could add pure water to your gas at that level and never notice any difference whatsoever. Do you really think your engine will notice a quarter drop of "whatever" in the tank?

We get sales flyers and dealership offers for all sorts of marine-based gas additives at work. They claim everything from infinite shelf life to eliminating ethanol to more HP to better fuel economy. Probably 3 out of 4 are little more than drugstore rubbing alcohol with a 1000% markup and a million dollar ad campaign.

Pump gas already contains federally required additives at distribution centers. If there was some additive that actually increased economy or decreased emissions, it would already be in your fuel. Infineum in NJ makes these and has enormous labs doing long term scientific tests to determine effectiveness. Something that results in a fraction of a percent lower emissions is considered a huge breakthrough. Like all the "miracle" fuel saver devices out there, if any of them were any good, the OEMs would already be using them. Why would car companies spend hundreds of millions on R&D for new engines when they could have gotten a huge improvement just by adding a tank of potion, or a magnet on the gas line, or a throttle body spacer? When these additive manufacturers provide peer reviewed, scientifically rigorous proof their product works, I'll be interested. Until then, pages of "testimonials" and flashy ads mean absolutely nothing.

I guess it's the same vein as the oil thread, "whatever makes you sleep better at night". I'll fill up with regular 87, skip the magic potions, and have saved enough for a pint of proprietary barley/malt based mind enhancer additive aka a beer at the end of the day.

 

[ninjaneer]

so a few months back i found out that the BP station along my way to work sold e-free gas. Yippee! i drove around town swearing that the bike was "feeling good" and performing a lot better then the stuff I bought from the Mobil station next to my house. but then one day the e-free station owner came out and said. "hey boy, aren't you here for the e-free $hi7? " I nodded my head, which caused him to point to the other pumps. Stupified, I walked over to the e-free pump and after seeing the ginormous price difference, quickly retreated. Ouch. So a couple weeks later when I decided to overhaul my carbs, I thought to myself, "man, if half of what people say about e-gas is true, these carbs are gonna be gross!" On the contrary, they looked relatively clean. Hmmmmm.....

Interestingly enough, I found out later after some idle chit-chat with one of the Mobil station's patrons, that he believed it had been LONG time (i forgot exactly how long) since a refill truck came by and that I was probably filling up with "old gas" as he put it. Hmmmmmm... then one day I went to the e-free BP and talked to the owner about some mystery charges his station was making on my card. after getting that squared away and some other talk, I come to find out that his refill tanker was visiting more often then the Mobil's. Hmmmmm, coincidence? or was my impression that my bike ran better with BP's corn-free than with Mobil's corn fructose was really simply because Mobil's corn was staler than BP's corn? Maybe, maybe not, but regardless of whether or not I factor in the observation with the price of 93 Octane @ $4/gal nowadays, the price alone is enough for me to dismiss the notion of trying to afford e-free.

For the past six months, I've been burning corn practically every other day, so keeping the e-gas burning ain't a problem. and since I'm sure the PO never cleaned out the carbs and even if the bike smelt like popcorn during his entrire ownership, me not effing up the carbs with corn gas for the last six months has led me to buy stock in the "e-free" haters' guild. if i had some kind of vehicle that sat for months, then maybe i'd entertain e-free for it- and even then it would depend on the cost of something like sta-bil vs the cost of e-free.

 

[VMAX NV]

Are you saying they are/were charging $7 for e-free gas?!

 

[4gasem]

It's not really a theory, it's on the MSDS. The "proprietary organic compounds" make up less than .5% (either a typo, or the other 4.5% is a recognized as safe compound and unlisted). That organic stuff must be something real special if less than half a percent of stuff added at 1oz per 6gal has any effect whatsoever. That's about a tenth of a ml of "active ingredient", or about 1/4 a drop. You could add pure water to your gas at that level and never notice any difference whatsoever. Do you really think your engine will notice a quarter drop of "whatever" in the tank?

We get sales flyers and dealership offers for all sorts of marine-based gas additives at work. They claim everything from infinite shelf life to eliminating ethanol to more HP to better fuel economy. Probably 3 out of 4 are little more than drugstore rubbing alcohol with a 1000% markup and a million dollar ad campaign.

Pump gas already contains federally required additives at distribution centers. If there was some additive that actually increased economy or decreased emissions, it would already be in your fuel. Infineum in NJ makes these and has enormous labs doing long term scientific tests to determine effectiveness. Something that results in a fraction of a percent lower emissions is considered a huge breakthrough. Like all the "miracle" fuel saver devices out there, if any of them were any good, the OEMs would already be using them. Why would car companies spend hundreds of millions on R&D for new engines when they could have gotten a huge improvement just by adding a tank of potion, or a magnet on the gas line, or a throttle body spacer? When these additive manufacturers provide peer reviewed, scientifically rigorous proof their product works, I'll be interested. Until then, pages of "testimonials" and flashy ads mean absolutely nothing.

I guess it's the same vein as the oil thread, "whatever makes you sleep better at night". I'll fill up with regular 87, skip the magic potions, and have saved enough for a pint of proprietary barley/malt based mind enhancer additive aka a beer at the end of the day.

I run e free fuel when ever possible, but you have to remember that I live in the CORN state. Some stations around my home have it, but get out in the country and I'm screwed. I carry a small bottle of the Star-Tron just for that. I may be over paying for it, but it works and that's all I really care about.

Chris

 

[ninjaneer]

Are you saying they are/were charging $7 for e-free gas?!

no, i don't think it's that much. i honestly have no idea, but i don't think i'm too far off thinking maybe more like $4.90 +/- $0.20.

 

[SpecOps13]

I just bought Non Ethanol 87 Octane for the Max's today. It was $3.89 a Gallon. Put it in the wife's Tahoe too. We've run Ethanol and Non Ethanol in her truck. It's proven that we get 8 to 10% better gas mileage with Non Ethanol. That covers the price difference.

I'm happy for those of you who have it figured out how to run Ethanol in your VMax's. I had a lot of engines totally FU'd by the stuff before I even knew what it was that changed in the gas. My Harley will run on it. My 94 runs like crap on it. The 89 VMax ????, I don't know yet. My brother in law makes thousands of dollars repairing Boats and Cages that people run Ethanol in blindly... I know that someday, I won't be able to get "Real Gas". Then, I consider that I will be screwed, atleast on the one bike, boats, mowers and other small engines....... :sad2:

 

[ninjaneer]

thumbs up Spec! just outta curiosity i'll stop by the BP just to see exactly what he's sellin it for nowadays. there's another station about the same distance as the BP but it's outta the way. i'll take a look at his and see what's on the up-n-up. cuz if they're selling corn-free at the same price you're getting yours at, i'll be happy to pour it in.

 

[SpecOps13]

ninjaneer: Sounds like there may be some serious GOUGING going on in your area.... That would totally Suck.....

 

[jfeagins]

It's proven that we get 8 to 10% better gas mileage with Non Ethanol. :sad2:

Yep. That's cause corn was engineered to burn in people, not engines. :bang head:

Back when stations first started sneaking corn into our Dino, I had all kinds of performance grief with not only my old Chevy pickup (350), but also my little Datsun B210 and my Chevy V6 boat. I spent good money having the carbs on all them rebuilt FOR NOTHING. All three still had problems on the corn squeezings even after the carb work. I was griping out the guys doing the carb work for doing it wrong.

Then one day while out of town, I realized the little Datsun wasn't hiccupping any more. When I got back to town, and later in the week, it would begin doing it again...........same things happening on the other two......finally realized it was the gas station I was buying my gas causing the headaches (QuikTrip). I began getting all my gas elsewhere and all three vehicles carb issues cleared up...........

A little research later, and I found out that QT was augmenting their fuel supply with something cheaper than Dino - WAIT FOR IT......-----ETHANOL. Not much later and KS passed a law requiring labeling of the shiiiite.

Nowadays my Max is running fairly well - no electrical or fuel problems to speak of, and I ride it fairly often. All the fuel in MO is at least 10% corn. When I ride down into Arkansas, I be sure to fill at a 100% Dino station. The difference is noticeable. I don't check MPG, but the thing just runs better. Sounds better. Lopes at cold idle like when it was new. I can't get that smooth, yet loping idle any longer on the 10% corn stuff. It just ain't the same.

 

[sarchin]

here's a link for non-ethanol stations around the country. just click on your state.

http://pure-gas.org/index.jsp

if anyone has a better one, please let me know

 

[ninjaneer]

ninjaneer: Sounds like there may be some serious GOUGING going on in your area.... That would totally Suck.....

dude. i checked out the BP on the way home. $4.5999/gal. :surprise: