Handling upgrades / frame stiffeners

[anton73]

Hello, does anyone know some good bolt on frame stiffeners? Im planing to do some non invasive mods (if they're are any) to make my VMAX feel less like a ship at sea with all the wobble. Next mod I'm thinking is either motor mounts or frame stiffeners. Any recommendations?

 

[Fire-medic]

My opinion is that the best change you can make in bike handling is to use wheels sized to allow you the use of radial tires.

 

[MaxMidnight]

Unless you have addressed the suspension then adding frame braces or solid mounts is unlikely to give significant benefit.
Also IMO either braces or mounts- you don't need both.

 

[Henne]

https://www.schwabenmax.de/index.php?cat=KAT2311&lang=DEU&product=VR050

 

[apsolus]

My opinion is that the best change you can make in bike handling is to use wheels sized to allow you the use of radial tires.

sir any idea why radials make it handle better? im a racer so i know what it means to have good tires under you. or do the radials just make it go down the road better?

 

[Henne]

Brutaly honest.
The best you can do for safe fast rides with the max is a Lenkungsdämpfer.

I drove full speed with no problems

 

[Davelaf]

https://www.schwabenmax.de/index.php?cat=KAT2311&lang=DEU&product=VR050

If by lumpendampner? You mean those solid motor mounts, I read the German vendors description of them and it seems to make sense. Any ideas if any source here in the ol US of A for those?

 

[MaxMidnight]

sir any idea why radials make it handle better? im a racer so i know what it means to have good tires under you. or do the radials just make it go down the road better?

Have a read of this

 

[anton73]

Have a read of this

Thanks. I understand why it would make the bike feel better and perform better but in my case the bike wobbles/dips side to side just in a straight line with the slighted input of the pegs or bars. Not only that but it never wants to go around corners, I've been riding this bike for months and it's very unbearable compared to my gsxr. I'm thinking my tires have to be imbalanced but not positive.

 

[MaxMidnight]

IMO tyres are not the issue and a Max will never handle like a GSXR.
What have you done to check the suspension?

• Correctly adjusted head races
• Correct level of oil min forks
• Front and rear wheel bearings
• Swinging arm bearing adjustment
• Damping properties of rear shocks
• Condition of rear shock bushes
• tyres at correct pressure

 

[apsolus]

Have a read of this

great info. so it seems bias ply vs radial is clear. interesting stuff! bias ply is tougher while radial is better in every other way is what i gathered.

 

[VMAXXIMUM]

I don’t understand all of the handling complaints. I mean our bikes were not designed to compete with sport bikes but I’ve been running my 95 at track days for years with great success. I started out stock on bias ply’s (ME888’s) and over time have upgraded to frame braces, solid motor mounts, better suspension, radials and the most noticeable performance wise 6 pot calipers. Again my max will not out handle my gsxr750 but I regularly surprise other riders as I ride around them on the track.
I love how my Vmax handles. It’s solid, tracks where I point it and turns in very well.
I’m not suggesting that our bikes have not had their fair share of problems but if you have well sorted suspension and your steering head is properly adjusted our bikes handle just fine as long as you don’t push the cornering near the limit. Mods like I have do significantly extend that limit by stiffing the frame, and improving the suspension.

 

[Fire-medic]

I'm not a track day participant, I'm not a road-racer. However, I am a rider of VMaxes for over 30 years. As I've posted before, going from bias-ply tires to radials is the best way to improve your bike's handling, in my opinion.

I believe the Venture had solid motor mounts that swap into a VMax frame, at a cost of more vibration. That's one way to get them. I think Kyle and Sean Morley had Delrin mounts available, I don't know if they still have them. Contact them to find out: screen name/ email
CaptainKyle [email protected]
one2dmax (Sean Morely) [email protected]

There are many things you can do to make things better on your 'Max, and what you need to recall is that you're trying to make improvements on a motorcycle designed in the early 1980's, released in 1984 for the 1985 model year. This was the dawn of the changes in the Japanese motorcycle industry. Air-cooled bikes were still being produced, but the liquid-cooled bikes were being developed and released, because they could produce more HP, and meet EPA requirements and the decisions among the Japanese manufacturers to improve handling to go with single shock rear suspensions on their best-performing bikes was obvious. The big prestige bike of the turn of the 1970's to the 1980's was the Honda CBX. Six cylinders transverse inline, w/six carburetors, and for the first two years, two rear shocks made that motorcycle the epitome of that time. Change was on the horizon, and Honda released its V-4 liquid-cooled motorcycles, The 750 and 1100cc Magnas. The Suzuki Madura in 700cc and 1200cc displacements only lasted a couple of years (1985/6) and Kawasaki went to their Ninja liquid-cooled transverse inline-4 for the Eliminator 900 and 1000. Then Yamaha released the VMax, and after Jay Gleason showed the dealers what the bike could do, and then a few weeks later at Baylands Raceway (San Francisco Bay area) turned similar times below 10.4 seconds. Even the GSXR 1100 was unable to do that, a short wheelbase and a high center of gravity made it harder to launch. Sure Jay Gleason was good for two-tenths over nearly anyone else, but the bike could do it.

I like to mention that the VMax Generation 1 was in production longer than the Ford Model T. In the meantime, chassis development and the use of radials both helped to make bikes perform much better. Remember that Yamaha didn't use radial tires until the 1987 FZR1000. 'Fast" Freddie Spencer won Grand Prix titles in two classes using the radial tire.

Spencer said: “The introduction of the radial tire was the most important innovation of my career. A rider needs grip, feedback and longevity and the radial represented a real improvement in all three areas.

“The first thing I noticed about the radial was that it gave me much better grip and stability when cornering rapidly. I could re-accelerate sooner, which I always tried to do when racing.”

Now riding on the street is not GP racing, but having the same technology available in tires as used in GP racing has become commonplace on streetbikes. Using a wider wheel front and rear allows the radial tire to work as it's designed to. I suspect that if you try a properly-equipped radial tires VMax, that you won't want to ride anything but.

 

[wayne billings]

Not in the USA.. exact rep has them.

 

[AndrewT]

The wobble and weave in bumpy corners is the tyres. The 90 profile front and rear are circular in shape with narrow rims. If you put a side load on this set up it will flex and bike will move around, dampened by rubber stiffness and pressure.
Frame twist will have a much higher frequency response to bumps as the frames are way stiffer than the inflated tyres.
So you will get the best results from going to low profile radial tyres that don't distort much.
Bear in mind VMax is basically a straight line drag bike. The 90 series side wall tyre alow more tyre distortion and increases the rubber in contact with the ground when you launch bit like the tyre distortion you see on the large diameter rear tyre on a drag rail when they launch.

 

[apsolus]

The wobble and weave in bumpy corners is the tyres. The 90 profile front and rear are circular in shape with narrow rims. If you put a side load on this set up it will flex and bike will move around, dampened by rubber stiffness and pressure.
Frame twist will have a much higher frequency response to bumps as the frames are way stiffer than the inflated tyres.
So you will get the best results from going to low profile radial tyres that don't distort much.
Bear in mind VMax is basically a straight line drag bike. The 90 series side wall tyre alow more tyre distortion and increases the rubber in contact with the ground when you launch bit like the tyre distortion you see on the large diameter rear tyre on a drag rail when they launch.

good info. i like smart people

 

[apsolus]

I'm not a track day participant, I'm not a road-racer. However, I am a rider of VMaxes for over 30 years. As I've posted before, going from bias-ply tires to radials is the best way to improve your bike's handling, in my opinion.

I believe the Venture had solid motor mounts that swap into a VMax frame, at a cost of more vibration. That's one way to get them. I think Kyle and Sean Morley had Delrin mounts available, I don't know if they still have them. Contact them to find out: screen name/ email
CaptainKyle [email protected]
one2dmax (Sean Morely) [email protected]

There are many things you can do to make things better on your 'Max, and what you need to recall is that you're trying to make improvements on a motorcycle designed in the early 1980's, released in 1984 for the 1985 model year. This was the dawn of the changes in the Japanese motorcycle industry. Air-cooled bikes were still being produced, but the liquid-cooled bikes were being developed and released, because they could produce more HP, and meet EPA requirements and the decisions among the Japanese manufacturers to improve handling to go with single shock rear suspensions on their best-performing bikes was obvious. The big prestige bike of the turn of the 1970's to the 1980's was the Honda CBX. Six cylinders transverse inline, w/six carburetors, and for the first two years, two rear shocks made that motorcycle the epitome of that time. Change was on the horizon, and Honda released its V-4 liquid-cooled motorcycles, The 750 and 1100cc Magnas. The Suzuki Madura in 700cc and 1200cc displacements only lasted a couple of years (1985/6) and Kawasaki went to their Ninja liquid-cooled transverse inline-4 for the Eliminator 900 and 1000. Then Yamaha released the VMax, and after Jay Gleason showed the dealers what the bike could do, and then a few weeks later at Baylands Raceway (San Francisco Bay area) turned similar times below 10.4 seconds. Even the GSXR 1100 was unable to do that, a short wheelbase and a high center of gravity made it harder to launch. Sure Jay Gleason was good for two-tenths over nearly anyone else, but the bike could do it.

I like to mention that the VMax Generation 1 was in production longer than the Ford Model T. In the meantime, chassis development and the use of radials both helped to make bikes perform much better. Remember that Yamaha didn't use radial tires until the 1987 FZR1000. 'Fast" Freddie Spencer won Grand Prix titles in two classes using the radial tire.

Spencer said: “The introduction of the radial tire was the most important innovation of my career. A rider needs grip, feedback and longevity and the radial represented a real improvement in all three areas.

“The first thing I noticed about the radial was that it gave me much better grip and stability when cornering rapidly. I could re-accelerate sooner, which I always tried to do when racing.”

Now riding on the street is not GP racing, but having the same technology available in tires as used in GP racing has become commonplace on streetbikes. Using a wider wheel front and rear allows the radial tire to work as it's designed to. I suspect that if you try a properly-equipped radial tires VMax, that you won't want to ride anything but.

ur making me wanna go radial. but right now i have way to much on my plate!