Harley...blind, deaf and dumb?! RANT!

[MBreinin]

great point quarter...they focused on the sport line.... and the vtwin line to get some of the harley crowd...leaving the faithfull vmax followers behind..has to be the only bike made that never evolved ...sorry boys but yamaha sold the vmax out for the vtwin crowd ..Now i see why so many are down on the vtwin crowd....

Almost every manufacturer has sold out to the V-Twin crowd. The only place you can get a V-4 now is from Honda in the ST1300 or the Interceptor, as well as Aprilia (soon) and Ducati (BIG bucks). Now, they are all great bikes, and Honda in particular has really developed that engine as a platform over the years. Still, they are all sport oriented bikes and one race bike. There is no V-4 in a cruiser/muscle platform...those are all V-Twins now. To me, they are all so generic. I can't tell the difference between any of them from a distance and sometimes even when I am right on them, I can't tell who made it because the companies have come up with these "alter ego" names for their bikes. Yamaha cruisers aren't Yamahas, they are "Stars." The Kawasaki Vulcan has a big V on the tank, it doesn't say Kawasaki. I even have a hard time identifying a Harley until I get really close, or it is really loud.

No identity. Generic, homogenous bikes. Same for the majority of the sport bikes. If they were all painted black and had no graphics I would have no clue at what I was looking at most of the time.

I applaud Triumph. Their bikes stand out and you can pretty much tell when you see most of them (their sportbikes being the exception) that this is something different. I would love a Thruxton.

Mike

 

[QuarterHorse]

I guess I can tell the difference in all the sport bikes, and a lot of Cruisers. The Vulcan says Kawi on it in a different spot, not on the tank though, and the Star Motorcycles say Star. *Shrugs* I mean I bought the V-Max because I like it, not because I'm a Yamaha purist. I like Harley, Victory, Triumph, I wouldn't mind owning a few bikes from each manufacturer, I just don't have the money.

Threads that bash a particular brand get to me a tad, as no bike is made perfect, and the V-Max could be said FAR from perfect, yet there are tons of threads (some in fun which I laugh with you guys) that do nothing but bash (insert brand here). I ride to ride, not to find other V-Max owners. I don't care what you ride.

 

[Hulign]

Thanks for reminding me Mark....

Your brothers HD was cool as hell to ride... I thought it was pretty comfy (except I was scared to let anything happen to it) I would seriously consider owning a HD. As soon as they make one that has good brakes,handling and a decent price tag....Oh wait Yamaha beat them to it with the Raider. I like any bike even scooters... they all go back to the reason we got these damn things in the first place (chicks dig them) because we all wanted the freedom that came with owning one. I personally like my freedom to come with the ability to make my asshole pucker on a regular basis.The biggest thing about HD guys is they tout the freedom/rebel aspect while following a deer in the headlights school fish direction of what it means to own one of those bikes.

Crap around here you can't tell them apart.

I can pick mine out of a crowd... not just because it's 3 different colors neither!!

I have met a ton of HD owners and if they can drop the trademark persona for 5 mins, they all seem to be decent people.

So I say if they are cool great...if not fuck'em.

I swear I'm gonna grab one of these kids on a scooter and trade them for an hour...just to see the look on their face...lol

Frank

 

[Heretic]

Harley should do like many car manufacturers do, and offer a special line of enhanced performance bikes. Something akin to AMG Benz or the M-cars from BMW. They could just offer factory bikes with S&S engines and improved braking and handling. Hw many guys do you think would line up for a Sportster with over 100 HP and torque at the wheel right from Harley?

Mike

Mark alluded to this earlier, but Harley does produce a 'Screamin' Eagle' line of bikes. Still these $26,000 1800cc porkers only put down 90whp as evidenced by Mark's brothers bike. Not bad for a Harley, but not exactly an M109R or V-Max.

This thread was started to ask why Harley choose to go to Germany and Austria to design new engines when the resources to do so were right under their noses. I would post this question on a Harley forum, but I doubt anyone there could provide me a response that was readable, let alone logical.

 

[113s&s]

Mark alluded to this earlier, but Harley does produce a 'Screamin' Eagle' line of bikes. Still these $26,000 1800cc porkers only put down 90whp as evidenced by Mark's brothers bike. Not bad for a Harley, but not exactly an M109R or V-Max.

This thread was started to ask why Harley choose to go to Germany and Austria to design new engines when the resources to do so were right under their noses. I would post this question on a Harley forum, but I doubt anyone there could provide me a response that was readable, let alone logical.

do you mean 1800 ci when your talking about a motor thats peak rpm is 5200 rpm its all about torque your waiting for 8500rpm to feel 110 hp on a max on a harley you feel the peak hp at say 4800 rpm....your running maybe 60 hp at 4800 rpm the harley is at 90 hp using your numbers ...both riding side by side down the road your at 60 hp and 65 70 tq the harley is 90 100 hp with 110 120 tq......but ya i know you can down shift three times and make the motor work three times as hard ,to make up for the piss poor performance in the street

 

[themattreid]

do you mean 1800 ci when your talking about a motor thats peak rpm is 5200 rpm its all about torque your waiting for 8500rpm to feel 110 hp on a max on a harley you feel the peak hp at say 4800 rpm....your running maybe 60 hp at 4800 rpm the harley is at 90 hp using your numbers ...both riding side by side down the road your at 60 hp and 65 70 tq the harley is 90 100 hp with 110 120 tq......but ya i know you can down shift three times and make the motor work three times as hard ,to make up for the piss poor performance in the street

Your argument defies logic. Please go back to the hole you crawled from. :rofl_200:

 

[Heretic]

do you mean 1800 ci when your talking about a motor thats peak rpm is 5200 rpm its all about torque your waiting for 8500rpm to feel 110 hp on a max on a harley you feel the peak hp at say 4800 rpm....your running maybe 60 hp at 4800 rpm the harley is at 90 hp using your numbers ...both riding side by side down the road your at 60 hp and 65 70 tq the harley is 90 100 hp with 110 120 tq......but ya i know you can down shift three times and make the motor work three times as hard ,to make up for the piss poor performance in the street

1800 cubic centimeters, not cubic inches. It would make sense to start a race within your peak HP range, if possible. How about a V-Max racing a Harley side by side and have both start at 8500rpm where the V-Max is making peak power and the Harley...:biglaugh:

I know Harley is like a dump truck, ain't real fast, but wow look at the low end torque!

(Sorry I couldn't resist)

 

[clintard]

i rode my buddys 96 wide glide, it was extremely comfortable but had ZERO balls whatsoever. I loved the way i sat on it compared to the max but id never want to go fast on that harley, the thing just felt "loose"

 

[113s&s]

1800 cubic centimeters, not cubic inches. It would make sense to start a race within your peak HP range, if possible. How about a V-Max racing a Harley side by side and have both start at 8500rpm where the V-Max is making peak power and the Harley...:biglaugh:

I know Harley is like a dump truck, ain't real fast, but wow look at the low end torque!

(Sorry I couldn't resist)

...

well you know that aint gona happen..... hey ill let you start at 8500 ill start at 3000 hows that...we would have a lot to talk about after that one over a coffee or two

 

[113s&s]

i rode my buddys 96 wide glide, it was extremely comfortable but had ZERO balls whatsoever. I loved the way i sat on it compared to the max but id never want to go fast on that harley, the thing just felt "loose"

rode a road glide last year felt the same way...

 

[themattreid]

let's just set things straight here. HD is about perceived style not performance. It never was about performance anyway. We're comparing apples to oranges.

I like the way some HD's look, don't get me wrong. And if I wanted something that was cool looking and didn't care about performance I would have bough one instead of the max. But such is not the case.

Also, if you want to compare - putting the bigger 1400cc mods to the vmax and then a side by side race with the 1800cc HD - I don't think we'd ever see the HD win.

 

[113s&s]

Your argument defies logic. Please go back to the hole you crawled from. :rofl_200:

ok now for you :boxing00: yes the big vtwin strokers pushing out that much hp and torque at a low rpm, one would think it defies logic i agree......just remember you dont bring a vmax to a tractor pull and i wont bring the v twin to the track...but if you want to connect chains to both rear ends and pull against each other that would be fun...

 

[113s&s]

let's just set things straight here. HD is about perceived style not performance. It never was about performance anyway. We're comparing apples to oranges.

I like the way some HD's look, don't get me wrong. And if I wanted something that was cool looking and didn't care about performance I would have bough one instead of the max. But such is not the case.

Also, if you want to compare - putting the bigger 1400cc mods to the vmax and then a side by side race with the 1800cc HD - I don't think we'd ever see the HD win.

well now your talking it all comes down to money .... bike for bike stock for stock the hd has no chance...with after market v twin motors now a days that they didnt have 10 years ago popped in a harley frame is a runner against any metric on the street and can put a hurting on a max but those bikes are far and few between but there out there

 

[QuarterHorse]

I see a lot of "performance" arguments here. I tell you what, you spend what you want to spend on the Max, I'll go out and buy a ZX14 or Busa and wax you with a stock bike.

When it all comes down to it, it's personal preference on what you want in a bike all around. I don't understand the bashing of one bike if it lacks in one department vs the bike you ride. It's silly.

You want to go fast? Buy a sport bike. They do everything better than the Max does stock.

Obviously, you don't want to just go fast if you bought the V-Max, there are under lying reasons. Ripping on somebody or brand whatever bike for these reasons is silly. Joking around is different, but I don't see the jokes in some of these posts. I think a few of us need to get over ourselves and re-evaluate what the hell kind of bike the V-Max is, as it isn't the end all be all bike, and isn't remotely close. It is however a fun as hell muscle cruiser that draws crowds and demands respect, as well as having a myth that surrounds the thing, which is fun.

This post may not be directly towards anybody, but if the shoe fits with what I'm saying, I guess it does.

In all honestly, the next bikes I want to buy are:

Buell XB12S
Triumph Rocket III
H-D Street Glide
KTM Super Moto

Probably in that order, as I can't afford the Rocket III or the H-D right now. I posted this as I am by far not a "V-Max Guy" or a "Yamaha Guy" but a guy that likes cool and different bikes, and likes to bike in comfort or sport when he can.

 

[Hulign]

I agree with this... HELL if I won the lottery I'd have one of everything...I'd still have to keep a Yamaha or the tattoo would just be silly.Back when I was younger and dumber(like that's possible) All I loved was fast plastic... Ninja's mostly... They could be had for less than the Max and it was all about going fast. I have taken every bike I've owned out and opened it up... as I've gotten older,balder and smarter (yeah right!) you figure I would have gotten over it. But as my good and not very bright friend Jason learned when he let me ride his GSXR on the way to Topeka... I haven't learned a damn thing.My stomach was crammed into the tank and the balance felt weird, the whole damn thing felt twitchy. But there I was less than 3 mins later zipping along at 145 or better. I didn't know the roads, the cops or the bike. Sorry to those maxxers in our group that got a generous view of the crack I couldn't keep covered.

So the max is my self imposed limit right now...Last year coming back from Topeka we got out of the rain for 10 mins and I got the max somewhere south of 150 indicated (17 inch wheels and I was too busy to try to do the math). The point is I would be bored on a Harley.. granted I might remember a little better the reasons I took up riding. I might see more of the roadkill and spend more quality time stuck behind some schmuck in a blue smoking mini van. There is no right or wrong we buy what suits us. I love the fact that nobody has one just like mine. How many Harley guys can say they massaged the front forks with a hand grinder to make that 17 inch wheel fit?

I am pretty damn happy with my bastard child bike... but it wont stop me looking at other bikes. And someday when I can afford the lawyer to help me hang onto my license I might just have to park a super duke next to my max... LOL

I'd have to make the first stop the local PD...hell they are gonna end up with my license might as well get it over with.

So whatever it is... RIDE IT

Frank

 

[dave741]

my 60 year old rich dentist would be mad as hell if he herd all of us talking bad about his bike lol

 

[Buster Hymen]

my 60 year old rich dentist would be mad as hell if he herd all of us talking bad about his bike lol

LOL.. you don't want to be pissing off your dentist!

"Is it safe...?" Name that movie!

 

[MBreinin]

LOL.. you don't want to be pissing off your dentist!

"Is it safe...?" Name that movie!

Marathon Man.

 

[Redbone]

I agree that is really dosen't matter what you ride, when you ride it, how you ride it, who you ride with, or even how you look when you ride. If it floats your boat that's cool with me. I may have been a little defensive earlier but in all honesty when it comes time to ride it don't matter one bit. It makes for good conversation at the stops too having several different brands to check out, ask questions and the good natured ribbing that goes on.
I WOT on a few straight aways with my brother for fun but he can just walk away from me. I don't really get into the challenges to races, but if a guy pulls up and wants to go in a safe spot I'll give it a shot. A couple buddies have tested me but they don't have fast bikes (dresser HD, Bagger Star, Sportster, and a late 80's Honda 900/1000 cruiser ). I think they were just trying to get me to hammer it so they could see if it really was fast. When they caught up to my brother and I at the next stop sign we were half done with our cigarettes(LOL).

 

[KJShover]

well now your talking it all comes down to money .... bike for bike stock for stock the hd has no chance...with after market v twin motors now a days that they didnt have 10 years ago popped in a harley frame is a runner against any metric on the street and can put a hurting on a max but those bikes are far and few between but there out there

The el bruto 120 that was in my chopper was 133hp and 135tq at the rear wheel going through a baker 6 speed.

Made a mess of that 230 from a standstill. At 30 I hammered it in 1st to pop it loose shifting into second, while riding with some friends. the venom Tire didn't really break loose, but 13 spokes sure as hell did. Talk about a wobble!