Installed new battery; now when I hit the starter button, everything goes dark

[TheFleshRocket]

My '14's factory battery was about toast, so I bought and installed a new Battery Tender lithium battery at the beginning of July. Didn't even test ride the Vmax until mid August. (I have other bikes that I've been riding.) I fired it up for the first time since installing the battery and it started quickly, as expected. I rode to a client's office 20 minutes away, and an hour later, when I tried to start the bike, as soon as I'd hit the starter button, everything would go dark. If I turned the key off and back on, it would light up, but again, pressing the starter would make it go dark. I was able to bump start the bike and ride it home--it bump started on the first attempt.

After I got home and shut it off, I tried to start it, and it did the same thing--went dark. So I parked it and the next day, tried to start it. Lo and behold, it cranked and started normally. Didn't ride it so I didn't test hot starting, but it seems like for whatever reason, the bike will only cold start.

I'm pretty sure that the new battery is just bad. But, before I go crawling up Deltran's ass to get a replacement, is there anything else I should check? I'm confident all of the connections are tight, but I'll check them again, just in case.

 

[Parminio]

By "goes dark" do you mean no lights, or anything sort of like a fuse has blown?

If so that sounds like some sort of short in a relay or a very bad ground.

 

[TheFleshRocket]

Yes, all of the lights go out--gauges, headlight, turn signals, brake light--and it stays dark until I turn the key off and back on again.

The bike cranks normally on a cold start. The only thing I've changed is the battery, and the bike didn't do this before changing the battery.

 

[Parminio]

Yes, all of the lights go out--gauges, headlight, turn signals, brake light--and it stays dark until I turn the key off and back on again.

The bike cranks normally on a cold start. The only thing I've changed is the battery, and the bike didn't do this before changing the battery.

That is weird as hell.

Are you SURE your battery connections are good and that you didn't maybe pinch a wire or something?

 

[Fire-medic]

If it wouldn't start at all and everything went dark I would think that maybe the polarity was reversed. I suggest checking all the connectors or anywhere that you moved or disconnected something to be able to access the battery during its installation. I also would remove the battery ground to wherever it is in the frame sanded down to shiny metal on both the wire loom connector and the point on the chassis, and then smear some Dielectric grease on the connections before you torque it down snuggly.

On the generation ones sometimes a starter button will not spring out fully and that replicates something similar to what you were discussing. I don't know if that's the same affliction which can be found on the generation 2 but it's something to consider. And the Generation 1 the fix is to pull out the starter switch button so the normal electrical function can occur. Things shut off when the starter button gets pushed to send the full jolt from the electrical system to the starter.

 

[TheFleshRocket]

That is weird as hell.
Are you SURE your battery connections are good and that you didn't maybe pinch a wire or something?

I'm gonna double check over the weekend, but I remember everything going back together pretty easily and without trouble.

 

[Parminio]

That's the only thing I can think of - that you either forgot to tighten down the wires good or something got pinched. That causes the short and loss of power and it resets when you turn the switch off and back on again.

 

[TheFleshRocket]

So, I reached out to Deltran, and this is the reply I got:

We have seen certain charging systems on certain bikes where the regulator output causes the BMS in the battery to intermittently trigger battery protection mode.

It is not consistent across any make/mode of bikes but if it is experienced with our battery in a particular bike it more than likely will be experienced with a replacement battery as they have the same BMS circuit.

Deltran engineering is actively working on a solution to make these batteries compatible with as many charging systems as possible.

My reply:

Interesting. I think I was having the battery protection mode issue with a Battery Tender battery that I had installed in my ’99 Honda VFR 800. The bike would intermittently cut out for a split second at various cruising speeds. I thought it was a problem with one of the sensors because the bike threw a code for that sensor, but replacing the battery with a traditional lead acid battery fixed the issue. That bike has a Rick’s Motorsport aftermarket regulator / rectifier, because it supposed to be more reliable than the stock part, which is prone to failure. I still have that battery sitting around—it was one that I removed from my ’08 Buell 1125R because it didn’t have enough CCA to reliably start that bike—and maybe it’s not actually bad, just not compatible with the VFR’s charging system.

That said, that was an issue that happened while the bike was running—my VFR never had any problems cranking or starting with the Battery Tender battery installed. In my layman’s understanding, if the bike isn’t running, as is the case with my ’14 Yamaha Vmax, the R/R shouldn’t be coming into play because the charging system is inactive. I was able to bump start the Vmax after it refused to start with the starter, and it started and ran fine for the 30-minute ride home—no hesitation or cutout. (The Vmax’s charging system is stock.)

Given my bike’s symptoms, do you still think this is a charging system compatibility issue?

Has anyone else used a Battery Tender battery in a Gen2 successfully?

What other lithium ion batteries have people used with good results, if I decide to move away from the Battery Tender battery?

 

[02GF74]

Having read the battery manual, I'm not convinced that there is any evidence to suspect you have connected it incorrectly but possibly compatibility issue or faulty battery.

There is supposed to be a reset button and the BMS triggers when cold, I didn't see where you are located but I do not think that is the reason.

Ehen the lights go out, do you need to reset?

Manual also suggests warming up the battery by putting a load on it (headlamp on for 5 minutes), you could try that but it would be bizarre if that fixes the problem and d of course is not a practical solution.

Id be tempted to get a replacement, if that does the same, return it and try a different battery, either same technology, different brand or different technology.

I don't think you can go wrong with a gel battery such as odyssey brand.

 

[TheFleshRocket]

The BMS is supposed to trigger when the voltage gets too low, and yes there is a button to reset it on the battery tender pigtail, which I have hooked up. When I turn the key off and back on, everything lights up normally with no need to press the reset button.

During my testing today, after I had already had the bike running for about 5 minutes and then shut it off to test, there was one time that I thumbed the starter, had everything go dark, and then about 5 seconds later, everything came back to life and when I thumbed the starter again, the bike cranked and fired.

I am pretty confident that the battery has a defect like a bad cell, and that when I hit the starter, its internal voltage is dropping below the BMS threshold and it is shutting itself off, but as soon it has a chance to recover, it automatically resets itself.

I'll probably ask Battery Tender to replace this battery. It's from 2018 if I'm reading the date code properly, so who knows what it's been through before I got it. It was $131--every other lithium battery seems to be $170 or more. (Although they probably work fine the first time.. LOL)

 

[02GF74]

I missed reading about the automatic reset.

I saw one battery with RJ45 connector that allows interrogation of the BMS but I don't think yours has this so we're kinda at a dead end as to diagnosing the problem.

Return the battery as above.