Intermittent shut off...

[Vinmax]

I have this very intermittent shutoff with my bike. 2001 Vmax with 27,000 miles.
This is the scenario: only occasional (maybe once in a 130 mile ride) I have almost what seems like the engine will quit and then in about 1/2 a second come back on. I may not get it again for the rest of the ride.
I thought my battery was going out. I have had that with other bikes when the battery is going out. I replaced it with another Odyssey and I thought the problem was gone. But it did it again yesterday.
I checked the sidestand switch. All looks great. I cleaned out the switch and I'm getting continuity when the switch is closed and the sidestand switch is up. I'm wondering if anyone has ever had the sidestand 'relay' go bad? I'm thinking that if that was going, then it could intermittently stop the engine. I want to replace that next just because it looks like if that is intermittent, then that could shut down the engine all at once if it's acting up, of it the coil in the relay is getting flaky. Could this be related to the diode assembly? I didn't think that could stop the engine according to the schematics.
This is NOT a miss. It's the complete engine shutdown and only seems to do it at low revs, and only for about a 1/2 second. Never does this during highway running or shifting. Just putting along at 2000 or 3000 revs or so, and bam,,,, dies for what seems like 1/2 second. One time I was just idling, and smooth as hell, waiting to pull out of a gas station and the engine just quit. Stated right up again when I touched the starter.
This also seesm to be 'purely electric.' I have no, and I mean NO carb issues. The bike runs great except this intermittent loss of total engine electric. Also, I don't lose the total bike electrics, like lights and all. Just the engine. Like the spark is out on ALL cylinders. Not a miss, like I said.
I have a brand new Odyssey battery, the COP mod, and the electric charging system has had the crimp soldered and all seems to charge great. I'm getting 14v charging at about just off of idle.

Thanks for any input,
Vinnie

 

[naughtyG]

another few things to check:

#1 is the kill switch and its wiring
#2 is the clutch lever switch and wiring
#3 is the neutral switch and wiring
#4 is the ignition key barrel and wiring

Look especially at any wiring that moves, for example the harness around the steering head. From the sound of it though, I think the most likely culprit would be the kill switch - does it do exactly the same thing if you hit it for 1/2 a second?

 

[rhoke]

I had a very intermittent shut off. I mean maybe once a month to sometimes once a day. I traced it down to the main fuse block(30a) just to the left of the original carb stay. Its a long shot. Hope you can figure it out. I hate electrical until, I fix it(or someone on here tells me, how to fix it, lol).
Roy

 

[Transam]

Was having almost the same prob. some time back. By passed the
kickstand switch and problem disappeared. Had a similar prob.
after washing the bike but found where the rear brake light switch had
coroded nearly in half. I would hit it with my heal and eventually it
broke and when I hit the rear brake it would blow my fuse. May not
be your prob. but when it comes to electrical who knows.
Regards,
Chris

 

[MONTREALMAX]

i had a very intermittent shut off. I mean maybe once a month to sometimes once a day. I traced it down to the main fuse block(30a) just to the left of the original carb stay. Its a long shot. Hope you can figure it out. I hate electrical until, i fix it(or someone on here tells me, how to fix it, lol).
Roy

without this site i would be lost....

Did you check contacts in the ignition barrel? Had mine apart recently and it was a little dirty from crap falling in the keyhole over the years i guess

a definite long shot but it can be accessed and cleaned in under 30min

 

[Vinmax]

Re: Intermittent shut off... and Guys that run COPS...

Maybe the guys that run COP's can help me out here (Birdofprey especially. You've worked with this ignition system a lot and I appreciate your input). I'm still experiencing some really intermittent 1/2 second shutdowns. Not the whole electrical system, but what seems to be the spark on all cylinders just shuts down.

This is what I've tried. I unplugged and jumpered my sidestand relay. Now, the bike will start in gear, and with the sidestand down. So I've eliminated the whole cutoff circuit from being the issue.

I also have a brand new Odyssey PC680 installed. The old one was 8 years old and I was thinking that if it's going bad, then it may be causing the problem. I only see this problem when running at low rpm. Like around 2000 or so. That's why I thought it was voltage related. The low rpm I thought was not charging the battery enough and maybe the TCI was cutting out from lack of adequate voltage.

I also soldered my stator wires to my reg/rec and ran seperate hot and grounds to my battery for charging. Now I'm getting 14.2v right to the battery and just a tick over idle.

This is what I checked last night: If I unplug one of my COP's (cylinder #3) I measure both the hot side and the TCI side to ground. On the hot side, I'm getting 10.3v to ground (to the large gound wire near the oil fill cap). On the TCI side of the COP plug, I get a full 12v and it DOES NOT shut off it I kill the engine stop switch. The hot side does shut off when I hit the engine stop switch.

This is all with the COP plug, un-plugged from the COP.

I need to know what you guys are getting on both sides of that plug,,,, (when it's unplugged and the ignition is turned to the on position).

I was surprised to find that I was only getting 10.3v to the hot side of the COP plug (with the bike not running) and yet getting a full 12v on the other side of the plug that goes to the TCI unit. Do you think I'm losing almost 2v through the engine stop switch? And why in the hell does the TCI put out 12v on the other side of that plug even with the engine stop switch turned off???

Thanks,
Vinnie

 

[gamorg02]

sorry man didn't 100% follow, what do u need me to measure?

 

[Vinmax]

Hey thanks for getting back to me. I want to know the measured voltage on the COP plug to ground. If you pull the plug off the COP (your 12v wire that runs the COP) there are 2 terminals to measure. One comes from the battery, through the engine stop switch. If the key is turned to the on position, and the engine stop switch is on, then you'll see voltage there.

The other wire will give you voltage is the engine stop switch is on or off, provided your key is turned to the on postion.

I want to know the voltage readings of both of these in relation to the ground strap that's hooked to the engine block near the oil filler cap.

So basically, the volt meter is set to read dc volts. Then you unplug one of your COP's. You hook the positive meter lead wire to the one of the terminals in the plug, and the negative from the meter to the ground strap on the bike. Turn the ignition key to 'on' but DON'T try and start the bike. Then do the same for the other wire in the COP plug. One of these will only give a voltage when the engine stop switch is on, and the other will give voltage is the engine stop switch is on or off.

You may have to put a small piece (like a single strand from a copper wire) into the COP plug. The connector is really small and won't fit a standard volt meter tip into it.

Thanks for you help,
Vinnie

 

[gamorg02]

Hey thanks for getting back to me. I want to know the measured voltage on the COP plug to ground. If you pull the plug off the COP (your 12v wire that runs the COP) there are 2 terminals to measure. One comes from the battery, through the engine stop switch. If the key is turned to the on position, and the engine stop switch is on, then you'll see voltage there.

The other wire will give you voltage is the engine stop switch is on or off, provided your key is turned to the on postion.

I want to know the voltage readings of both of these in relation to the ground strap that's hooked to the engine block near the oil filler cap.

So basically, the volt meter is set to read dc volts. Then you unplug one of your COP's. You hook the positive meter lead wire to the one of the terminals in the plug, and the negative from the meter to the ground strap on the bike. Turn the ignition key to 'on' but DON'T try and start the bike. Then do the same for the other wire in the COP plug. One of these will only give a voltage when the engine stop switch is on, and the other will give voltage is the engine stop switch is on or off.

You may have to put a small piece (like a single strand from a copper wire) into the COP plug. The connector is really small and won't fit a standard volt meter tip into it.

Thanks for you help,
Vinnie

so, if i understand right, taking the stick right out of the equation. basically getting the voltage off of the straight wire run from where the stock coils used to be?

i'm very visual, if that helps and not the best at electrical but i'll see what i can do.

 

[Birdoprey]

Re: Intermittent shut off... and Guys that run COPS...

Maybe the guys that run COP's can help me out here (Birdofprey especially. You've worked with this ignition system a lot and I appreciate your input). I'm still experiencing some really intermittent 1/2 second shutdowns. Not the whole electrical system, but what seems to be the spark on all cylinders just shuts down.

This is what I've tried. I unplugged and jumpered my sidestand relay. Now, the bike will start in gear, and with the sidestand down. So I've eliminated the whole cutoff circuit from being the issue.

I also have a brand new Odyssey PC680 installed. The old one was 8 years old and I was thinking that if it's going bad, then it may be causing the problem. I only see this problem when running at low rpm. Like around 2000 or so. That's why I thought it was voltage related. The low rpm I thought was not charging the battery enough and maybe the TCI was cutting out from lack of adequate voltage.

I also soldered my stator wires to my reg/rec and ran seperate hot and grounds to my battery for charging. Now I'm getting 14.2v right to the battery and just a tick over idle.

This is what I checked last night: If I unplug one of my COP's (cylinder #3) I measure both the hot side and the TCI side to ground. On the hot side, I'm getting 10.3v to ground (to the large gound wire near the oil fill cap). On the TCI side of the COP plug, I get a full 12v and it DOES NOT shut off it I kill the engine stop switch. The hot side does shut off when I hit the engine stop switch.

This is all with the COP plug, un-plugged from the COP.

I need to know what you guys are getting on both sides of that plug,,,, (when it's unplugged and the ignition is turned to the on position).

I was surprised to find that I was only getting 10.3v to the hot side of the COP plug (with the bike not running) and yet getting a full 12v on the other side of the plug that goes to the TCI unit. Do you think I'm losing almost 2v through the engine stop switch? And why in the hell does the TCI put out 12v on the other side of that plug even with the engine stop switch turned off???

Thanks,
Vinnie

The red/white wire on your harness should be showing battery voltage with the key on. The other, which comes from your TCI should not be showing any voltage. The TCI pulls it to ground. Should'nt be seeing voltage on both sides.

 

[Vinmax]

Hey Guys,
Thanks for all this input. Now, I understand that according to theory, I should only see voltage on one side, but are you guys seeing that when you actually measure it?

Also, does the voltage go to zero when you hit the engine stop switch? I only see that on one side. The 10.3v side. And that is my Red/White wire side. The other side shows a constant 12v (actually about 12.1v) and it stays on no matter if the engine stop switch is on or off. It only goes to zero if I turn off the key switch.

Funny thing is, the bike runs just great except this intermittent shutoff maybe once in a whole 120 mile ride. And, only when going below 2000 or so rpm. Could this be anything other than the TCI doing this? I mean the whole start circuit cutoff is jumpered out,,,,,,,,,,, so that rules out, sidestand relay, sidestand swith, neutral switch, and clutch switch.

By the way, the TCI is only about 4 months old. I'm one of the guys that had a blown out Dyna 3000. Blew it out when running with the COPs. The COPs I got were from a 2007 R1, and look in brand new condition. All measure the same primary and secondary even though I don't know what they are at the moment.

Again thanks for any and all input.
Vinnie

 

[gamorg02]

Hey Guys,
Thanks for all this input. Now, I understand that according to theory, I should only see voltage on one side, but are you guys seeing that when you actually measure it?

Also, does the voltage go to zero when you hit the engine stop switch? I only see that on one side. The 10.3v side. And that is my Red/White wire side. The other side shows a constant 12v (actually about 12.1v) and it stays on no matter if the engine stop switch is on or off. It only goes to zero if I turn off the key switch.

Funny thing is, the bike runs just great except this intermittent shutoff maybe once in a whole 120 mile ride. And, only when going below 2000 or so rpm. Could this be anything other than the TCI doing this? I mean the whole start circuit cutoff is jumpered out,,,,,,,,,,, so that rules out, sidestand relay, sidestand swith, neutral switch, and clutch switch.

By the way, the TCI is only about 4 months old. I'm one of the guys that had a blown out Dyna 3000. Blew it out when running with the COPs. The COPs I got were from a 2007 R1, and look in brand new condition. All measure the same primary and secondary even though I don't know what they are at the moment.

Again thanks for any and all input.
Vinnie

u know thats, interesting, i had a low rpm stumble issue myself, but it seemed to clear itself up. almost felt like the bike was turning off... and i'm running '05 COPs

 

[Vinmax]

I'm thinking that what's happening is the TCI unit is not getting enough power at low rpm's if the battery is not in great shape or the charging system is not up to par.

After I installed my new battery, the problem doesn't show itself as often. The old battery was .5v lower than this new one. I also soldered the stator connections to my reg/rec and ran seperate hot and gound leads to the battery from the reg/rec. The problem seems to be less often. But, I'm still interested to find what other people are actually measuring on a volt meter at the COP plug with it unplugged and the key turned to the on position.

I wonder if the battery and charging system need to be up to spec so as not to starve the TCI unit when running the COP's. Just a thought. That's why I'd like to find out why I'm only getting 10.3v at my COP connector. Plus I'm getting 12.1v at the other side of that same connector. I wonder if I have a high resistance on my engine start/stop switch and that is causing the voltage drop to the COP's or even to the TCI.

Vinnie

 

[gamorg02]

I'm thinking that what's happening is the TCI unit is not getting enough power at low rpm's if the battery is not in great shape or the charging system is not up to par.

After I installed my new battery, the problem doesn't show itself as often. The old battery was .5v lower than this new one. I also soldered the stator connections to my reg/rec and ran seperate hot and gound leads to the battery from the reg/rec. The problem seems to be less often. But, I'm still interested to find what other people are actually measuring on a volt meter at the COP plug with it unplugged and the key turned to the on position.

I wonder if the battery and charging system need to be up to spec so as not to starve the TCI unit when running the COP's. Just a thought. That's why I'd like to find out why I'm only getting 10.3v at my COP connector. Plus I'm getting 12.1v at the other side of that same connector. I wonder if I have a high resistance on my engine start/stop switch and that is causing the voltage drop to the COP's or even to the TCI.

Vinnie

i follow, except for what exactly i'm still measuring. haha. we're removing the stick completely right?

 

[Vinmax]

No, don't remove the stick from the spark plug. Just unplug the wire going to it. Now there are two wires that feed the stick. If you look into the plug (if you have a plug. Some people just ran two seperate wires to the stick).

Now measure the dc voltage of one of those wires with the positive end of your voltmeter. The other end of the voltmeter goes to the gound wire that has a bolt in the engine block right next to wear you add oil to the bike.

Then do the same for the other wire on the plug. If the ignition key is 'on' and the engine stop switch is on, you should see power on one of those wires. On my bike, I see power on both.

Then if you see power on both, what is the voltage? And which wire shuts off power when you click the engine stop switch to the off position?

Remember, all the voltage readings are with the key switch turned on.

Thanks,
Vinnie

 

[gamorg02]

ok i gotcha. i think we're on the same page. when i meant remove the stick, meaning taking it out of the voltage equation, etc. can i do this on my front coils? My rears are a pain to get to with knee guards and frame braces.

 

[Thevmaxrider]

Guess I should have read this thread a bit earlier. I have had exactly the same thing happen to me since I did the COP mod. It is very intermitent, but annoying. Only seems to happen at idle so I haven't really worried about it. Hmmmm have to do some more research LOL.

 

[naughtyG]

I can measure mine also tomorrow. I'll check all four and report. I know one side should show 12V, but the other would be dependent on where the motor is in its rotation, wouldn't it?

Are you reading this on all 4 COPs wires at the same time?

 

[Vinmax]

I only read the number 3 cylinder's COP plug. The red/white wire on my plug is reading 10.3v when the bike is off, the key switch is turned on, and the engine stop switch is in the on position.

The other wire in the plug reads 12.1v It does NOT go to zero even if I switch the engine stop switch to the off position. It only goes to zero if I turn the key switch off.

I was surprised that this line with 12.1v stays on even with the engine stop switch off. I was also surprised that the other wire (Red/White) is only giving me 10.3v. When I remove my ignition fuse and take a reading there, I'm getting 12v. So where am I getting this voltage drop from??? I'm thinking the engine stop switch.

If you guys have some data for me in the form of what you read on your bikes, then maybe we can figure out what's happening.

Thanks,
Vinnie

 

[maleko89]

Easy enough to check the stop switch. Measure voltage before switch and after switch. Could also be vboost, fuel pump/relay.