Kerker install..How did my kerker dent here?

[rebar]

I had a different beat-up kerker on this bike before and bought a used one without dents and had it jethotted. New exhaust gaskets were installed.

I installed the back pipes loosely. Tried to line up the front, and had to pry up on the left side to get in the hole. I raised the back up and both rear pipes looked like they would drop right it. Got them started in the swagged openings and tapped with a rubber hammer for what seemed like hours. I could see the right back pipe was not heading straight into the swagged opening. Like the elbow need a few more degree's of bend. The silicone had dried before I spazzed, yelled UNCLE, and removed the system to try to figure out WTF.

After removal I found a small dent shown in the picture. Why did that 180 degree elbow hit my oil pan fin? I'm guessing it prevented me from raising the rear up. I could file the fin off. But Iv never heard of anyone having to do that. I also saw I never made it further than 1/4" into the swagged openings.

Can high temperatures with used pipes cause headers to become sprung?

Thanks.

 

[Rusty McNeil]

I had a different beat-up kerker on this bike before and bought a used one without dents and had it jethotted. New exhaust gaskets were installed.

I installed the back pipes loosely. Tried to line up the front, and had to pry up on the left side to get in the hole. I raised the back up and both rear pipes looked like they would drop right it. Got them started in the swagged openings and tapped with a rubber hammer for what seemed like hours. I could see the right back pipe was not heading straight into the swagged opening. Like the elbow need a few more degree's of bend. The silicone had dried before I spazzed, yelled UNCLE, and removed the system to try to figure out WTF.

After removal I found a small dent shown in the picture. Why did that 180 degree elbow hit my oil pan fin? I'm guessing it prevented me from raising the rear up. I could file the fin off. But Iv never heard of anyone having to do that. I also saw I never made it further than 1/4" into the swagged openings.

Can high temperatures with used pipes cause headers to become sprung?

Thanks.

I dunno about becoming sprung, my guess is you accidentally dented them while trying to hammer it into place.

The pipes I have (UFO) you have to bring the rear up so that bend is behind the oil pan before you bring the front up, if you start the front into the flanges and then try to swing the rear up it'll hit the pan and then you have to beat it past the pan. When it's hanging in the front flange already the "arc" is wrong for the bend to swing upwards past the rear of the oil pan...

Try hanging the rear down pipes loosely, then bring the rear up tubes that are fixed to the front section and get the slip joints started, then work the front flanges into the heads, which will still be a mother fucker probably. It's the nature of the way the oil pan is that's causing your problem most likely...

Leaving the rear down tubes REALLY loose should give you enough play to pull the whole thing forward after the down tube slip joints are started, so that you can get the front flanges in place on the head.. If that doesn't work try installing the whole thing without the rear down tubes in place, and then install the rear down tubes afterwards. They should be able to be slipped into place from the top??

I took a ball peen and dented one of mine on purpose in that same spot just to make fitment easier...before I realized there was an easier way which I described above. Wouldn't have felt good about doing that to a new jet-hot coating tho'..that's for sure..

It sounds like a real pain in the ass, but it could help to pull the rear wheel and swingarm just so you can get to everything and see what's going on while installing it. It could also help as well since it looks like thats a 4-1 and starting the rear first is going to want to make the very back section kick up and probably hit the swingarm or something before you pull the front up into place, having the muffler off is probably needed to; although you probably already had that off anyway???

 

[KJShover]

I took mine off cause I had a leak on one of my back pipes. so I thought I would deal with them both.
I changed the install a little from when I first did it.


What I did during my 2nd install was;

• Install the front first and loosely tighten.
• Install the back and loosely tighten, and smeared copper permatex around the mating ends of the rear pipe.
• Then using a wedge I cut out of a of 2x6 (to match the angle of the bike while on it's kickstand), and a small hyd jack I positioned the pipes where they fit. Snugged up the pipes a little, repositioned them once more then tightened everything.

Hope this helps.

 

[4gasem]

Did you sand the coating off or partially off at the joints? My old Walker kit was so tight he recommended you sand some of the coating off. It would have been impossible if I hadn't. I used copper RTV as well.


Sent from my iPad using special algorithms and data nodes.

 

[rebar]

Thanks Rusty. Yes mid pipe and muffler off. I might try the rear first. But sounds like I did the correct steps from what KJ has said and he has a kerker.

What I did during my 2nd install was;

• Install the front first and loosely tighten.
• Install the back and loosely tighten, and smeared copper permatex around the mating ends of the rear pipe.
• Then using a wedge I cut out of a of 2x6 (to match the angle of the bike while on it's kickstand), and a small hyd jack I positioned the pipes where they fit. Snugged up the pipes a little, repositioned them once more then tightened everything.

Hope this helps.

Now this has me baffled KJ. Because I essentially did the exact same thing. Except my bike was hanging from chain hoists. I positioned a large ammo box under the exhaust with a piece of plywood and cardboard to protect the finish. I then lowered the bike in a controlled way while tapping with the rubber hammer to push it up. But it wouldn't go. The dent isn't a big deal since it cant be seen but I'm beside myself at the moment.

Does anyone have a kerker laying around they could measure the distance between # 3 and #4 and between #1 and #2 ?

My distance is 14 1/4" between #3 and #4 (right side)
and 13 3/4" between #1 and #2 (left side) :ummm:

I can get 14 1/8" between #3 and #4 if I push, but not 13 3/4" like #1 and #2.

It looks like #3 is tweaked back to me.

 

[rebar]

Did you sand the coating off or partially off at the joints?

Sent from my iPad using special algorithms and data nodes.

Yes I did.

 

[rebar]

Even without anyone confirming these measurements, I'm sure this misalignment of #3 is preventing me from seating the rear down pipes.

Now I need to decide if I want to..

A) Install everything except #3 down pipe and then try to drop it in and pull it forward into the exhaust port.

B) Try to fit the rear down pipes first and then bring the front up like Rusty suggested.

C) Insert a long pipe the correct size into #3 swagged opening and try to bend it forward to match the distance between #1 and #2 (left side) and hope I bend #3 only and not crack my new jethot.

 

[rebar]

OK.. I fitted the header without the rear down pipes to see which part of the pan was hitting. I thought a file would remove enough to allow it to come up. As you can see, the entire pan is in the way. What I dont understand is it hits in a different area then the first failed attempt.

What a great weekend.:eusa_dance:

 

[Rusty McNeil]

OK.. I fitted the header without the rear down pipes to see which part of the pan was hitting. I thought a file would remove enough to allow it to come up. As you can see, the entire pan is in the way. What I dont understand is it hits in a different area then the first failed attempt.

What a great weekend.:eusa_dance:

Is that picture with the front flanges fully seated in the front exhaust ports? Damn it's off by a lot?

 

[rebar]

Is that picture with the front flanges fully seated in the front exhaust ports? Damn it's off by a lot?

Yes Rusty.

After googleing "warped header flange" I found pages of forum posts on the internet .. Its the heat. Like when you weld something.

And these posts are about car headers with 1/2" flanges. As we know, Vmax headers dont have flanges to try to keep them straight.

I guess this is one of those "live and learn" situations.:biglaugh:

Im moving on, and now and need to decide which new headers I want and hope I never need to remove them. Or dont run them cheery red.

What really sucks is that by the time I have this bike running, my carbs might be gummed up.:rofl_200:

 

[4gasem]

Did you test fit these before sending them off to be finished?


Sent from my iPad using special algorithms and data nodes.

 

[rebar]

Did you test fit these before sending them off to be finished?


Sent from my iPad using special algorithms and data nodes.

These have never been on my bike. They went straight from the seller to jethot, then me.

 

[KJShover]

I've never seen jet hot coating warp pipes like that. But, if you look on the internet, there are a few pissed off people who were given warped pipes after being jet-hot coated.

http://www.ducatidesmosedicirr.net/forums/showthread.php?t=6434
http://www.tlplanet.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1034639

There is a possibility that the pipes where tweaked prior to coating. I think you should be able to bend it back either yourself or a good muffler shop.

 

[rebar]

I've never seen jet hot coating warp pipes like that. But, if you look on the internet, there are a few pissed off people who were given warped pipes after being jet-hot coated.

http://www.ducatidesmosedicirr.net/forums/showthread.php?t=6434
http://www.tlplanet.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1034639

There is a possibility that the pipes where tweaked prior to coating. I think you should be able to bend it back either yourself or a good muffler shop.

OK. Thanks KJ. I figured it was the heat from running.. But now that you've pointed that out. Maybe it was jethot. I have the extreme sterling.

I told Rusty the front was fully seated but they cant be when the back is dropped down that far. The tops of the front pipes were touching the new exhaust gaskets. All four nuts were started on the studs.

Im now looking at the exhaust studs. Maybe they are tweaked.:confused2:

I will also rotate the mounting flanges 180 degrees. Maybe they arnt symmetrical.

 

[KJShover]

These things can take some abuse while bolted up. Sean has had glowing results while putting them to the test beforeunk:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u84pc5wR7bw


The coating process could have warped them. however, I'm still thinking they could have been tweaked from the seller or even during shipping. Thats the shitty thing about not being able to do a test fit. Just too many variables get tossed into the mix. I've reshaped a couple of pipes by heating them up from the inside by using a handheld propaine torch and then bending the pipe.

 

[rebar]

I've reshaped a couple of pipes by heating them up from the inside by using a handheld propaine torch and then bending the pipe.

If I could get the front on and up I would try heating and bending #3 forward. But Im not sure what the front needs.

I guess I will order a new kerker. ullhair:

 

[CaptainKyle]

If I could get the front on and up I would try heating and bending #3 forward. But Im not sure what the front needs.

I guess I will order a new kerker. ullhair:

This sucks ! I was thinking about ceramic coating one I have here but you have me rethinking now.

 

[one2dmax]

Get with me and we'll work something out. Not sure why it's not fitting well for you!

Sean

 

[KJShover]

Looking around the internet more, I'm finding more jet-hot warpage stories of different varieties. Motorcycle, truck/car applications as well. Some pipes turn out great, some come back tweaked. I guess its just that every-one-in-a-while thing that happens at the coaters.

http://www.tlplanet.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1034639

http://www.x-h2o.com/archive/index.php/t-16187.html

http://www.fullthrottlev6.com/forums/showthread.php?23161-Jet-Hot-is-making-me-mad

http://www.tlzone.net/forums/suzuki-tl1000r-tl1000s-forum/66290-header-powdercoating.html

 

[rebar]

I want to add a follow up to this install.

The brand new Kerker slipped right on. Unfortunately the center stand tab remnants, cut off by the previous owner for the first kerker, weren't short enough and touched the header. I realized this the next morning after the copper exhaust sealer had cured while installing the mid pipe and bracket.:bang head: The bracket was to short or the mounting slot, bent to wide to prevent the square nut from spinning inside, was to far back. I had to pull the header/mid pipe up higher for the bracket to reach. Beat up hands and 3 hours later, the exhaust was off undamaged but with a few scratches where the flanges rattle around. Make sure the center stand tabs ,mainly the right side one, are cut almost to the cross tube. And at at the same angle as the header , not flat. Better yet ground off round to the cross tube.
My next issue was the mid pipe clamp. It didn't clamp tightly to the header so I had to use a cut off disc to widen the slot on the mid pipe. Another thing Iv noticed was the header mounting flanges are to thin for the torque required to compress the exhaust gaskets and bend. Another thing I did was to file off the back two fins on the oil pan. Not the outside ones but the next one's in. Seen in the pics.

I feel like I'm a experienced kerker installer now and wanted to share this to prevent others the same head aches Iv had.

The end..:biglaugh: