Leaky fork seal replacement question

[eggohead]

I order the All Balls oil seals. I had a hard time seeing $20 per seal for OEM. ALL ball was like $17.

 

[redneksoldier]

You'll find out why they cost more pretty soon. Probably within the next year or so.

 

[eggohead]

Hopefully not, but I wouldn't think there would be much price difference in the 40 and 43 mm forks. Close to $10 more for the 40mm...

 

[HyperPete]

I have a set of All Balls seals that I ordered before I joined the forum. After reading all of the reviews and comments I went with the OEM seals, and still have the All Balls seals gathering dust.

 

[redneksoldier]

Hopefully not, but I wouldn't think there would be much price difference in the 40 and 43 mm forks. Close to $10 more for the 40mm...

Yeah, I couldn't believe it when I was checking them out this morning. I seriously don't blame you for trying a cheaper alternative. $70+ for a set of fork seals is ridiculous.

 

[radley]

Thank you all for your help!

DMAN999, thanks for the links for the parts. It is absolutely sickening knowing that I am going to be paying MORE for stupid seals and gaskets than I did the springs. I bought Progressive Springs and they are on their way. I will place the order with Ronayers.com for the parts. I do have one concern in this matter....

- Looking at the Service Manual I downloaded, it obviously has the exploded fork with part numbers. In the manual, it suggests installing NEW
1) Dust Cover
2) Oil Seal
3)Slide metal
4) Gasket (no number or part name provided)
5) Piston metal
*6) In addition, I will order new Retaining Clips (Ring Snap)

Now, at Ronayers, the exploded fork lists
1) Seal, Dust 26H-23144-00-00
2) Oil Seal 1NL-23145-00-00
3) Metal, Slide 1 3JJ-23125-00-00
4) Gasket 2K8-23158-L0-00
5) **Piston Metal not numbered or available on this site**
*6)Ring, Snap 26H-23156-00-00

Total is over $126. WHAT THE HELL? OMG, this is stupid! Can I go with non-OEM for anything without jeopardizing quality and longevity? ? or just bend over and take it?

Another issue... The Service Manual (black and white, most common manual downloaded by VMAX owners, I am guessing) says Copyright 1995. I only took a peek because of the amount of fork oil called out in it, versus a comment made on Sean's fork youtube vid. The manual calls for 4.8 inches down or (21 US oz) per fork. I was assuming it was same for my 1985. WRONG. I noticed a comment on Sean's vid where someone said it was different for 1985. It doesn't mention this in the manual I have, so, I dug around for more manuals, and found these:

http://v4musclebike.com/forums/showthread.php?t=9801

Looking through the fork section, it does mention that 1985-1992 take 15.3 oz per fork, and 1993-2007 take 21 oz per fork.

Maybe I finally found a good resource? But it seems that no manual is actually for the early 1st gen Vmax bikes exclusively.... so beware all early 1st gen VMAX owners and DIY mechanics!!!!!!

Now, this is what the first comment mentioned on one of Sean's fork videos...

"The plastic tubing size is 1.75" ID, 2" OD, to push the oil seals into place.
It is really hard to find. Go to eplastics on the web for a 6 ft piece for ~$35.
For the dust seals, it is 2" ID, 2.25" OD, and this is a common size available at any hardware store." - Brian Austin

Is this good for 1985 bike? or should I just take some measurements with caliper, outside of inner, inside of outer, and go to hardware store and try to find a fit...?

Same for the dust seal endpiece.... sounds like inner will be my outer, and add 1/4"

Ok, I hope that covers things for now. Thank you ALL again for your responses. I'd like to keep this thread focused on the task at hand. I am planning on performing this operation NEXT weekend, at home, in the garage with my father.
We jam together in a Tool/Zeppelin/RATM band, www.pypeband.com

Thanks again, can't wait to hear replies.
-radley

 

[wayne z]

I just changed the fork seals on my '85 about 3 weeks ago. I had a 2 ft piece if 1 1/4" thickwall (schedule 80) pvc pipe on hand. It worked fine to drive the slide bushing with the steel washer between the pipe and bushing. Also worked fine to drive the seals and dust seals by sliding the pipe up and down the tube.

I did use 21 oz of fork oil (tractor hyd fluid) in each leg, this left the oil level about 4 5/8 below the top. Seems to be no issues with the forks now.

 

[DMAN999]

Personally on my 2000 the only parts I replaced were the Oil Seals, dust covers and the copper crush washers.
So you might want to pull your forks and see exactly what parts look like they need to be replaced Before you order them.
But I would absolutely use OEM fork oil seals because every post I have ever read about aftermarket forks seals has said they fail quickly ( a few months to a years or so) compared to the OEM seals which lasted me 13 years or so.

And yes the Fork oil level/amount is different for the 1985-1992 40 mm forks vs the 1993-2007 43 mm forks.

 

[wayne z]

I just use the centerstand, and put jackstands under the case guards to keep the front wheel barely off the floor, very stable this way.

I heated the copper washers to a dull red over the stove burner. This re-softens the washers so they can crush and seal again.

Most do not change the slide bushings. They should be OK unless maybe you have over 50k.

My air collars were tough to move at first. I used a hardwood stick with crisp edges and a hammer to catch and tap opposite sides and they moved easily after that.

I didn't bother to change air collar o-rings because I never use air anyway.

 

[wayne z]

OK my bad, the pipe I used is 1 1/2"pvc thickwall

 

[radley]

Ok, thanks again fellas.

To take things back a bit, I wanted to do the whole fork thing in the first place because there seemed to be excessive movement with little force on my forks when I would squeeze the front brake and rock the bike a bit. I have been riding the bike so far this year without obvious leaking, but I don't think the forks were rebuilt properly (years ago), so I thought I'd try to do it right,...but...

I left work the week before last and there is a small median separating lanes, with a zero to (curb height) 6" or so small ramp (jump) that I'd basically roll over on my way to the stoplight, probably did this 3 times, kinda fun but nothing really. The road has a decline to the light. Well, after work LAST friday, I went over the little ramp (15mph or so) and started slowing down (mostly via brake if i remember correctly) and the front wheel started to shake violently. It freaked me out a bit. I babied the bike back home scared to brake hard, or accelerate hard, obviously having no fun ;(

When I squeezed the front brake and rocked the bike, it moved HARDCORE displacement and felt like it was bottoming out. I assumed my forks where sh*t and needed to be rebuilt, thinking I blew the gasket or something. I haven't ridden at all since, til tonight. Went and put a little air in there, they are better but I still don't feel confident and would like to proceed with a fork rebuild.

I asked a friend about this and he mentioned possibility of a bent wheel? I did some research and other bikers had bent rotors,,,(just replaced my rotors on my car, violent shake when braking at higher speeds, makes sense) but on the short ride I took tonight didn't notice any shaking or anything like that. I didn't brake hard though either. Wondering what caused the initial issue and thinking I should proceed with fork rebuild?
Can I test for possibility of other issues? Can't think that the curb jump-off would do any harm, and I'm sure I have been overdue for a proper fork rebuild.....

Thoughts?

thnx
-radley

 

[Traumahawk]

First of all......what air pressure are you running in the front forks? I believe the minimum is 5 psi. 2nd.....have you performed the bounce test to see if your steering head bearings are loose?

Sent from my SCH-R890 using Tapatalk

 

[dannymax]

+1 What you're describing sounds like a low speed wobble....rebuilding the forks probly won't have much, if any, affect on this at all. Most likely the cause is loose or worn steering neck bearings.

 

[radley]

Traumahawk, I put like 10psi. I think I read a spec somewhere recently, the range being 7-15 or something.
Can you briefly describe the bounce test? I have researched it but what I found seems to be more of an overall suspension test....

-thnx

update, looks like I just came across the bounce test. I'll do that tonight after work. I'll get the wheel up and also check it out for obvious movement, laterally and, well, longitudinally(?). I'll also turn the bars and feel for any hangups, snags, etc...

 

[DMAN999]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OW-CmACI5xQ

 

[radley]

Thanks again DMAN,

I haven't experienced any low speed wobble, only high speed wobble, we're talking 90+ mph. In town, I can let go of the handlebars briefly and notice nothing, nor am I correcting to stay on a straight path.

I am going to proceed with the fork rebuild. I'd also like to do a steering bearing replacement, not that I need to, but I may need to and while I'm in there, why not...? I'll decide after the test when I get home tonight.

Looking at the parts list for steering, it looks like numbers 1 and 2, or 93332-00001-00 and 93332-00008-00, what I can't find is the seals for them, does anyone know where to get the OEM seals for the bearings, or what part number are they?

I read just now that the lower comes with the seal in it? **I called a OEM supply place online and asked about the bearings and seals for top and bottom, the rep had to call his Yamaha contact and then told me that the bearings sold on that site include the seals.....**

***UPDATE***. I put the bike level on centerstand, held front off the ground and spun the tire, looking for a bend, no bend, there's no way the wheel got bent, it's spinning pretty damn true. I'm sure the violent shaking was from having bottomed out the forks on my deceleration to the stoplight. Again, I haven't experienced any wobble or necessary correction at any speeds lower than 90+ mph. I tested out the steering a bit, looking for hangups and "bounce" when gravity took over. Turning left, the handlebars turned very freely and "bounced" at the end, likely needing some tightening up, but turning right, it took more effort, as if I had to turn the bars 35 degrees in order for gravity to overpower the friction from the bearings, and it moved SSLLOOWWLY down til it limited out in the hard right turn position... so I am thinking my bearings could be replaced, but they aren't too too bad. I'll replace them when I rebuild the forks.

***UPDATE*** Just placed the order for all OEM parts. $170, plus the $75 for the Progressive Springs. Still need fork oil, loctite, and lithium grease. Suggestions?

 

[eggohead]

I used yamahalube 15wt fork oil, in both bikes. 40mm each fork uses one bottle. The 43 you would need 3 between both forks. I don't think you really need loctite, but it's good to have for tool box, I have red and blue. Grease just get from any parts store in small tub/ not the tube. I just bought a pro-motion seal installer off amazon, for like $40. It worked like a charm on the 43 mm forks since I couldn't get PVC to fit, and was grouchy wanting to get it done right. Curious to see which sets lasts longer.. Lol I also know I have a better spring and race tech emulator in 90/ where the95 has stock. Might change that but not until seals need changed again.. Lol