Lithium battery

[MileHayabusa]

I had a Shorai that sat in my B-King basically untouched for 3 years with temperature swings out there from 90-ish down to near 0 a few times during the winter. Figured I'd be buying another battery due to my neglect but threw it on the Shorai charger and I'll be damned if that thing not only came back to life but continues to work like new another 2 years later.

I've got Shorai batteries in all of my bikes that have needed replacements and don't see that I'll be buying anything else when I need new batteries in the two bikes that don't already have one in them.

Pretty firm believer in them after all these years...and they feel like you're getting an empty box when they arrive.

 

[joksi]

I'm trying to decide if to continue with odyssey, or jump ship to Shorai for three bikes.. Im only getting 6 reliable years from my odyssey's..

To be fair, even though my batteryminder charger is approved by odyssey, it charges and floats a little low. And a few tenths of a volt do make a big difference when trying to charge to 100% which is important for longevity.

But on the other hand, buying a new Shorai lithium battery and charger and wondering if the bikes charging system is adequate is another story.. Are lithium's as touchy as AGM's for charge and float voltage, and can you trust the Shorai smart charger to actually keep it 100% happy like I thought my batteryminder was doing?

Will I have to tune up or upgrade my bikes charging systems for the Shorai's?

Thanks

I gave a Li- battery a chance since my AGM battery was jsut 2 years old and failed to start my Max when engine was warm. I really took care on the AGM during the renovation period, still when the rear cylinders heated up the battery - ****. I could not re-start the bike after refueling, for example. Needed to wait for 5-10 minutes to cool down the system, then it started without problem. But this is annoying if you travel in a crowd.

However, there was a sale on a local deaerlship, they sold a 4Ah, 280CCA Li-battery for +/- same rate than the cheaper AGM batterries are sold. So I gave it a chance.

My impression is surprisingly good. I guess since the battery is lots smaller, the room between rear cylinders and battery is isolating from heat and this again helps the battery to keep its power.

In winter I will print a new battery box to get more air fluctuation in the battery box, so no heat can boil my battery anymore.

 

[TheFleshRocket]

To the best of my understanding, lithium ion batteries like to be between 20-80% charge, and have a long-term reduction in capacity if kept outside of that range. I am not sure if LiFePo4 batteries are the same, though. It's lead acid batteries that like to live at 100% charge.

 

[joksi]

To the best of my understanding, lithium ion batteries like to be between 20-80% charge, and have a long-term reduction in capacity if kept outside of that range. I am not sure if LiFePo4 batteries are the same, though. It's lead acid batteries that like to live at 100% charge.

Specification of my Li Battery is not to charge it over 14,7V which actually never happens with stock stuff. The battery I bought (and I guess thats valid for all up to date Li-batteries) has a BMS to avoid overcharging and too low load.
The one I bought is for sure no rocket science, just a new build (probably better internal cooling and protective eleectronics, who knows) and less than 100$ (as of today, price was 89€). No long time expereice yet, but a happy new owner, did some 1000kms with it now

 

[norcalAF]

Had an earth x in my last bike (speed triple). Swapped in a shorai to my gen 1, and have had no issues what so ever.

 

[TK3333]

My Shorai is at least 8 y.o. by now. I was able to bring it back from the dead 1x each of the last 2 winters. The 1st time I bought the tender for l.i. batteries. It works....if you use it. So the first l.i. battery I bought is the last battery I bought.

 

[VMAXXIMUM]

I have had the same shorai in my gen 1 for 7 yrs. Still cranking away. I’ve over discharged it a few times with excessive cranking and the shorai charger has brought it right back. The weight savings is worth the extra cost for me. So far it’s longevity has not disappointed.

 

[rebar]

Thanks for all that.. I'm learning that AGM's are picky about their charge, float voltages and amperage's.. And that smart charger engineers err to the side of under charged. Which in turn diminishes the life span of the battery.. 3 tenths of a volt shy on float voltage can reduce life span by years.

I'm guessing the shorai's aren't as picky, considering the BMS should correct and protect the battery. And not needing to be 100% charged ever, is a huge advantage.. Anyone know the specs or how many amps/volts on their charger?

 

[JimmyDee]

Thanks for all that.. I'm learning that AGM's are picky about their charge, float voltages and amperage's.. And that smart charger engineers err to the side of under charged. Which in turn diminishes the life span of the battery.. 3 tenths of a volt shy on float voltage can reduce life span by years.

I'm guessing the shorai's aren't as picky, considering the BMS should correct and protect the battery. And not needing to be 100% charged ever, is a huge advantage.. Anyone know the specs or how many amps/volts on their charger?

The common knowledge around our shop was never use a charger with any kind of desulphating/pulsing cycle. A lot of lead acid/AGM specific chargers use a cycle like that to recover a low voltage conventional battery and that's what will damage lithium cells. A regular 1 amp smart charger is fine to use but might not see a battery you've run down.

There are specific lithium chargers from most of the big names (shorai, optimate, Noco, battery tender) that aren't just marketing hoopla... Pick one up if you don't have one. They can be used with conventional batteries no problem but IIRC have different voltage thresholds on where they kick back on as lithium batts don't like being at 100% charge.

 

[rebar]

Where you guys buying your shorai's? My local stealerships want me to buy a different battery..

 

[TK3333]

Pretty sure Bike Bandit back then. I'd prolly Partzilla,Revzilla, Rocky Mt., etc nowadays for best price or avail.

 

[MileHayabusa]

Oddly enough you can also find them on Amazon and I've had a couple that were delivered same day...

 

[Woody]

I got my pc680. From Westcoast batteries in 2010.
Still cranking like the day. It was installed. I do use a battery tender.

I've read that
Lithium batteries are supposed to have a special charger for Lithium. Then how does it charge.on a 1985 technology system?
I like everything about lithium.but don't want one to take out my stator or anything else.

I also heard Lithium batteries are 10.1 lbs lighter.

 

[joksi]

II've read that
Lithium batteries are supposed to have a special charger for Lithium. Then how does it charge.on a 1985 technology system?
I like everything about lithium.but don't want one to take out my stator or anything else.

I also heard Lithium batteries are 10.1 lbs lighter.

Modern Li batteries do have overcharging protection and BMS. Problem with stadard chargers are that they use pulse-charging to service the old lead batteries - and that kills Li batteries.
At least thats what I have been told.
Riding my cheapy Li battery now 500kms, working smooth.

 

[Woody]

Modern Li batteries do have overcharging protection and BMS. Problem with stadard chargers are that they use pulse-charging to service the old lead batteries - and that kills Li batteries.
At least thats what I have been told.
Riding my cheapy Li battery now 500kms, working smooth.

Wouldn't your vmax be a pulse system also ?
It was designed for lead acid battery.

 

[VMAXXIMUM]

Wouldn't your vmax be a pulse system also ?
It was designed for lead acid battery.

No it would not be a pulse system. That is how a dedicated lead acid battery charger works. It is not the same as the charging system in a bike or automobile.

 

[Woody]

No it would not be a pulse system. That is how a dedicated lead acid battery charger works. It is not the same as the charging system in a bike or automobile.

I get it now. It's the bench charger. That needs to be lithium. Not the vehicle .

 

[joksi]

Wouldn't your vmax be a pulse system also ?
It was designed for lead acid battery.

You could - if you want - get a working regulator from a FJR 1300 2007up (FH 012AA) if you want to upgrade the system.

 

[Jaketheone46]

The common knowledge around our shop was never use a charger with any kind of desulphating/pulsing cycle. A lot of lead acid/AGM specific chargers use a cycle like that to recover a low voltage conventional battery and that's what will damage lithium cells. A regular 1 amp smart charger is fine to use but might not see a battery you've run down.

There are specific lithium chargers from most of the big names (shorai, optimate, Noco, battery tender) that aren't just marketing hoopla... Pick one up if you don't have one. They can be used with conventional batteries no problem but IIRC have different voltage thresholds on where they kick back on as lithium batts don't like being at 100% charge.

No mention of Speedcell when mentioning the big name brands, as a avid RC enthusiast batteries are a huge part of the hobby and the best cells I’ve ever came across are what’s used in the Speedcell batteries so it’s Speedcell for me.

 

[Jaketheone46]

I got my pc680. From Westcoast batteries in 2010.
Still cranking like the day. It was installed. I do use a battery tender.

I've read that
Lithium batteries are supposed to have a special charger for Lithium. Then how does it charge.on a 1985 technology system?
I like everything about lithium.but don't want one to take out my stator or anything else.

I also heard Lithium batteries are 10.1 lbs lighter.

Biggest reason for lithium batteries specifically saying not to use lead acid chargers is because a lot of lead acid chargers once fully charged continue to with a trickle current to keep the lead acid battery fully charged being lead acid cells will bleed off allowing this. A lithium battery however does not bleed off and will continue to rise in voltage destroying the cells. Good Lifepo4 cells can sit on the shelf all year without loosing hardly any voltage. I currently have a few not in use now that have been sitting well over a year, maybe 2 years and at the time I sat them on the shelf I measured the voltage at 13.18v and that battery right now is at 13.16v so basically hasn’t lost hardly any of its charge. Before storing them I’ll usually try to take them down to around a 80 percent state of charge. Not really necessary with Lifepo4 but I’m so used to doing this with my lipos I figure why not being it is better for the cells.