Motor seems siezed, anyone seen this before?

[rspauldi1]

Hi Guys,

I traded my assault riffle for another Vmax yesterday, this time it's a 95 with 24K miles.

The story goes that the PO had recently been in the motor for some tranny work. If I remember correctly the shift drum and a fork were replaced.

The PO put ~100 miles on it and the bike seized up going down the hwy.

Plugs look good, no metal filings in the oil but did find 3 fairly decent sizes of plastic (refer to attached pics for the source), no oil in coolant, no coolant in oil.

Started by removing the stator cover first and cking the starter, starter gears, starter clutch. So far so good, no smoking gun here but did see that the starter clutch bolts were loose. I know, I was shocked also :biglaugh:

Put the ole 19mm half in drive socket on the flywheel bolt to see if it would turn. It does turn about an 1/8 of a turn and then stops. This atleast tells me the pistons aren't completely melted.

Remove the clutch cover, clutch plates and both inner and outer baskets. Well now, here is the smoking gun. I am assuming the gear that is missing all of it's teeth is a drive gear for the oil pump, right?? I can spin the gear with my fingers and it spins freely and can see the the other gear inside the case spins freely as well.

So, my question is, what in the devil caused this gear to become completely rounded ?? and will this be the cause of the locked up motor or an effect of the locked up motor.

sorry so long but wanted to give as much info as possible and in the long run maybe save someone some time.

Thanks,
rick

Hope the images loaded, still kinda new at this

 

[wishbone]

I just looked in the service manual on page 3-66 that is for sure the oil pump drive gear. It may have locked because for any number of reasons most likely a assembly mistake a very expensive mistake. I would tear it down and check everything. You may be able to salvage the heads and cams and other parts if your lucky. If its toast you can check with some guys on here for a replacement engine. That is the most cost effective solution.If the heads and cams are good build a 1300 from a venture. Hope this helps.

 

[RempageR1]

Top yellow (stripped gear) connects to the bottom gear which is part of the oil pump indeed. If it now rotates freely i would think some debris might have fouled it up at some stage. Like mentioned above, this engine should be taken apart completely, hopefully there are still some good parts on it.

 

[one2dmax]

It's a spun bearing. Look at the crank in the picture and you'll see heavy discoloration where the spun bearing got REALLY hot.

 

[rspauldi1]

usually when a motor grenades itself u can see signs of damage on the plugs or debris in the oil. I filtered the oil and used a bright light looking for shiners. Plugs look good, oil had 3 pieces of plastic which more than likely came from the oil drive gear.

I'll drop the pan here in a bit and see what kind of treasures lie within.. I'll post pics. I will also pull the caps and look at the bearings and journals.

Does anyone know if some kind of borescope is available to look thru the spark plugs holes to look at piston tops and cylinder walls?

thinking out loud here, could there have some kind of align issue between the clutch outer basket and oil drive gear?

thanks for the input guys. Motor replacement may be looming.

 

[rspauldi1]

whoops, didn't see Sean's message until I had already send the last msg.

if it got that hot this motor is toast.

time to start looking at options. Don't want to sink a bunch of money in this (95 model) as my 93 is in much better shape and it will be the one receiving mode..

Hey, maybe I can take the 93 motor (9k miles) and put it in the 95. Sell the 95 and use the money to build a stout motor for the 93.... Humm, the wheels are turning.

 

[Rusty McNeil]

It's a spun bearing. Look at the crank in the picture and you'll see heavy discoloration where the spun bearing got REALLY hot.

Good call, good catch. I don't see it either but after you pointed it out its super obvious now and for sure not normal.

 

[rspauldi1]

Well, pulled the oil pan off... it's ugly, real ugly.

Now the big question, fix? or part out?

 

[jedi-]

I'd keep pulling it apart and find out what's useful and what is not.
You can get cases and other bits easy and cheap enough from Egay or Sean etc.

I did the same thing from a donor motor that was basically gifted to me and ended up buying bits and pieces all of which I made my chain drive project from.
I may even have a few bits lying around that might be of use to you.

 

[johnpclynch]

Wow - oil pump stopped, motor ran dry, kaboom

I'd say anything that needed oil is toast, shows you how important a small bit of plastic is in a massive Vmax motor

 

[MaxMidnight]

Whilst it would only be of academic interest, it would be interesting to establish what caused the drive gear to strip. If it was down to the re-assembly then it was a testament to the oil that it lasted that long; perhaps one of the bearing locating pins was to wander around the transmission and eventually went to say 'Hi' to the gears; the oil pump seized.......

Whatever the cause here is a strong argument for fitting an oil pressure gauge.

 

[one2dmax]

I can almost guarantee you that whoever reinstalled the clutch basket did not get proper engagement of the basket to the gear. It's easy to think it's all the way in place when it really just is sitting on top of the drive gear.

Then that stripped the gear out when the bike fired up. And shelled the engine from there. The cases will be junk as will be the crank and two rods on that spun location. Likely the same problem on the other journal too.

You'll have heads/cams, trans, and misc parts to reuse or sell. I do have some good engines with bad second gears you could use to move over your good parts too and have it up and running again. I may not be the least expensive guy but I will also stand behind what I sell you.

Sean

 

[srk468]

Sean is more than likely correct but I'd inspect it closely anyway, the 1500 I bought used spun a bearing (oil system was fine though and yours wasn't unfortunately) and my cases lived so it's worth a look. All the parts I've gotten from Sean I've been extremely satisfied with his customer service and his prices are usually very competitive so I wouldn't bat an eye at his offer. Good luck bud!

Sent from my HTC6525LVW using Tapatalk

 

[rspauldi1]

yep, no oil pressure and things get hot fast. I wish I could understand the sequence of events a little better. The failure happened so quick after PO had been in the trans, coincidence? Or was there an assembly problem. I think it might be time to open my CSI kit and split those cases. I'll post pics as I go.

I really appreciate this forum and its members. Lots of knowledge out there and it's only a keystroke away.

 

[rspauldi1]

I have got to get better at typing on the phone. The time it took to write the last msg I had 3 new msg's. Guess I had better just stick with responding on the computer...

Sean, I certainly would be interested in investigating the parts you have to get her back on the rode. May just need to do a repair cost VS bike value analysis. Luckily I got her REAL cheap.

I haven't done any reading on engine removal yet, is it easier to remove the top end and then remove the motor? or just pull her on outta there? any inputs that could make this disassembly a bit easier would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks, rick

this little gottcha, might take me out of the Eureka Springs ride next week..

 

[leroycp]

IMO Sean gave you the best "solution" Spend the money and ship the motor for the swap rebuild. Guaranteed!

 

[soundguy]

Reminds me of maxwell smart..
would you believe?........

 

[one2dmax]

I will have a few motors being delivered to me AT Eureka Springs that you could pick up one to use for your project. Email me at [email protected] for pricing.

 

[Bill Seward]

Why would that gear be made of plastic???

 

[one2dmax]

To reduce noise in the drivetrain as well as metal on metal wear. I've never seen one damaged like this that was correctly installed with the basket fully seated.