New HD Sportster faster than a Gen1?

[ouchez]

That's like comparing a Ferrari to a Cadillac. They're two completely different machines.

No kidding! LOL!

 

[Woody]

I prefer the Indian FTR 1200.
I like the looks.And it's performance in dirt Track racing.And it's made in the USA.

 

[Craigster]

I've seen it on a Dynojet Dyno. It's about 112 hp and 84 ft-lbs of torque. It makes better than 70 ft-lbs everywhere in the rev range so the torque curve is fairly flat and thus accelerates like 2005 GSX-R1000 through the midrange (Where it makes about the same torque/hp as the GSX-R). I speak to that having ridden one just a few weeks ago.

It's not going to outrun an import sportbike, but it is no slouch. The good news is it is only a few parts swaps away from being the Pan America engine and that makes 130hp at the tire bone stock, and with just an exhaust and retune with a Dynojet Power Vision that bike has delivered 148 hp. So 150 hp Sportsters are just around the corner!

 

[Parminio]

I prefer the Indian FTR 1200.
I like the looks.And it's performance in dirt Track racing.And it's made in the USA.

No, it isn't.

The initial prototypes and first test models were. The mass production is done in Poland with final assembly in the United States.

At present, there is no motorcycle built in the United States. Most are assembled here, but that's about it.

 

[Parminio]

Not really, how are they different? Both have 4 wheels, 2 of which are powered by an ICE, with a gearbox etc. They may be intended for different uses but as machines go, they're pretty much identical, just like the HD and Vmax.

I can accept comparing a cadillac to a lathe is comparing 2 different machines.

*sigh*

Standard ATS Cadillac vs. 458 Ferrari Standard Specifications

3.6 V6 - 335 HP vs 4.5 V8 562 HP
285 lbs. ft. torque vs 398 lbs. ft.
4,1561 lbs. vs 3,450 lbs.
0 to 60: 5.4 seconds vs 3.4 seconds

Yeah. Sooooo similar.

 

[Pighuntingpuppy]

*sigh*

Standard ATS Cadillac vs. 458 Ferrari Standard Specifications

3.6 V6 - 335 HP vs 4.5 V8 562 HP
285 lbs. ft. torque vs 398 lbs. ft.
4,1561 lbs. vs 3,450 lbs.
0 to 60: 5.4 seconds vs 3.4 seconds

Yeah. Sooooo similar.

Yea....so far apart

Cadillac CTS V

6.2L V8 Supercharged - 640HP
630ft lbs torque
4,141lbs
0-60 in 3.9 seconds

But you know....I am surprised you didnt use the Cadillac Cimmeron for your example.

 

[sdt354]

If Harley can't build a bike faster than my heavier, old tech gen 1, be ashamed. And, a roll on just might be in order to find out. Think they want to do it? LOL.

 

[Woody]

No, it isn't.

The initial prototypes and first test models were. The mass production is done in Poland with final assembly in the United States.

At present, there is no motorcycle built in the United States. Most are assembled here, but that's about it.

Do your research .
All parts are made in USA.
And assembled in the USA.
Motors assembled in Wisconsin,bike assembled jn Iowa. And all paint work in South Dakota .
I took 2 minutes to find this information.

 

[CaptainKyle]

If Harley can't build a bike faster than my heavier, old tech gen 1, be ashamed. And, a roll on just might be in order to find out. Think they want to do it? LOL.

Hey it took them 40 years to catch up don't rag on them.lmao

 

[MileHayabusa]

Do your research .
All parts are made in USA.
And assembled in the USA.
Motors assembled in Wisconsin,bike assembled jn Iowa. And all paint work in South Dakota .
I took 2 minutes to find this information.

Sure about that...my 30 second Google search turned-up this:

Are Harley Davidson motorcycles for the US. Market Produced in the US.?
Harley Davidson has three factories in the US, each one is responsible for different models/parts/accessories:

• Tomahawk, Wisconsin – Tomahawk Operations
• York, Pennsylvania – Vehicle Operations
• Menomonee Falls, Wisconsin – Powertrain Operations

All Harley Davidson motorcycles for the US market are produced in the US. More specifically however, they are assembled in these US factories.

Are They Being Assembled in the US.?
All Harley Davidson Motorcycles for the US Market are assembled in the US.

Harley Davidson contracts parts to be manufactured from various factories around the world in places such as Germany, Taiwan, Japan, Mexico and Italy.

These parts are then imported to the relevant US factories, the motorcycles are assembled and then sent out to US based Harley Davidson dealers.

It is unknown the percentage of how much of a Harley Davidson motorcycle is actually manufactured in the US as it is widely understood that this varies from model to model and year to year.

It is known that it is not just accessories like seats and windshields that are produced outside of the US but also more crucial parts like engine components too.

Last I checked Showa wasn't an American-made suspension. So can you say "produced and assembled," yes. All parts sourced and made in the USA...probably not.

 

[CaptainKyle]

Sure about that...my 30 second Google search turned-up this:

Are Harley Davidson motorcycles for the US. Market Produced in the US.?
Harley Davidson has three factories in the US, each one is responsible for different models/parts/accessories:

• Tomahawk, Wisconsin – Tomahawk Operations
• York, Pennsylvania – Vehicle Operations
• Menomonee Falls, Wisconsin – Powertrain Operations

All Harley Davidson motorcycles for the US market are produced in the US. More specifically however, they are assembled in these US factories.

Are They Being Assembled in the US.?
All Harley Davidson Motorcycles for the US Market are assembled in the US.

Harley Davidson contracts parts to be manufactured from various factories around the world in places such as Germany, Taiwan, Japan, Mexico and Italy.

These parts are then imported to the relevant US factories, the motorcycles are assembled and then sent out to US based Harley Davidson dealers.

It is unknown the percentage of how much of a Harley Davidson motorcycle is actually manufactured in the US as it is widely understood that this varies from model to model and year to year.

It is known that it is not just accessories like seats and windshields that are produced outside of the US but also more crucial parts like engine components too.

Last I checked Showa wasn't an American-made suspension. So can you say "produced and assembled," yes. All parts sourced and made in the USA...probably not.

He was talking about the Indian .

 

[MileHayabusa]

He was talking about the Indian .

Then I stand corrected and reading comprehension...too late to add a New Year's resolution?

 

[Clyde Porter IV]

Not my cup of tea, the exhaust is hideous imo. Where are they measuring the HP? They have a torque and weight advantage. A second gear roll on would be fun to see.

And ride Mode those should be banded from the track. Especially the real Street Class. Where is the need and proud experience anymore. These Boys riding around on these New high tech bikes with all their gadgetry get no respect or benefit of doubt. It's sad really it is

 

[dgamber0]

Here is a great technical video on the new Harley Rev Max engine.



Harley did a great job with the new Rev Max design and using modern technology! Don’t know why it took this long to do this? When the v-rod came out, I thought it missed the boat. Not on being different, but in the power department. It should of been a 4 cylinder out of the gate. (If you are going to break rules…break them all!) It should of made way more power. The bike went against normal Harley tradition but made no power. If the bike was a 4 cylinder and scared the hell out of you when you wanted it to, it would of had a great cult following.

I still want to run one heads up against my max and ride the new Harley Rev Max too.

We will start to see them on the road soon enough.

 

[Parminio]

All parts are made in USA.

Including the Hitachi control module, Sylvania light bulbs, Siemens fuse boxes, Italian brake and clutch parts, Japanese suspension parts, the Slovenian exhaust system...

Should I continue?

 

[Fire-medic]

Going back to the 1970's Harley-Davidson worked on new engines, and they famously hired Porsche Engineering to help them to deliver a package capable of modular construction, named Nova, so it could be configured with different numbers of cylinders. This included two, four and six cylinder engines. Over the years they experimented with both air and liquid-cooled designs. In 1973 (when their stock sale didn't raise enough cash to allow continued development of planning for new engines and bikes), they were purchased by AMF (American Machine and Foundry) which allowed them to sell more bikes than they had ever-sold in their history. AMF even licensed a line of snowmobiles by Harley-Davidson! AMF manufactured many leisure sports products, from electric golf carts, to diving gear, sailboats, and bowling machinery.



Their model choices included one that wouldn't make it to the sales floor these days.



Yes the CSA Edition.

Under AMF ownership, unfortunately, quality control suffered, and a H-D management team decided to buy-back the company. The company came close to shutting-down in the early 1980's. Vaughn Beals was the principal management member who pushed for the buy-back effort. The Davidson family members were also involved. It was perilous for the continuation of motorcycle-making operations, and at one point, they were less-than a month from closing their doors. The sale by AMF finally happened, and Harley-Davidson had some hard choices to make. One was, "do we release a new design of engines, from an outside-the-business consulting engineering firm, such-as Porsche Engineering's Nove Project water-cooled engine and risk alienating our die-hard customers, or do we instead release an air-cooled but new design, by our own Engineering Dept., allowing a continuation of the progression of models which have served us since before WW II?" (Knucklehead, Panhead, Shovelhead) It would have been interesting to see what would have happened to H-D if they had the $$$$ to release both the Porsche Engineering/outside contracted engines and the in-house engineered engine. They had a hard choice to make. They decided to shelve (literally, see the pics) the work of the outside contractor, and they went into production with what became known as the Evolution. It's all they had the capital for. If the design had failed in the marketplace, they probably would have gone into bankruptcy. Fortunately, the design was a resounding success, and after 1984, their sales took-off. They dominated the heavyweight section of the domestic motorcycle market.

Before the sale by AMF, H-D petitioned the federal government for import protection from foreign motorcycle manufacturers. Honda and Yamaha had been involved in a tremendous fight to see who would be #1 in motorcycle sales in the USA and worldwide, releasing dozens of new models, and a 45% tariff was imposed on 700cc and larger bikes. This took place in 1983 under President Reagan, and while it helped H-D, the plans for the management group's buyout from AMF continued. The tariff benefitted H-D, and they eventually called for an early end to the tariff, as the tariff was designed to be reduced over time, and eventually, 'sun-setted.' (ended) By the time this happened, the Evolution motor was released, the buyout from AMF had happened, and H-D was on its way to setting new sales records, where dealerships had waiting lists of eager customers.
U.S. RAISES TARIFF FOR MOTORCYCLES - The New York Times (nytimes.com)

Take a close-look at these pictures from the H-D Museum in Milwaukee WI. (photos by the author) You can see the different families of designs considered, and the modular scope which allowed for two, four, and even six cylinders.

 

[Zeus36]

Revolution Max 1250 Engine

Displacement: 1250cc

Bore x Stroke: 4.13 in. (105 mm) x 2.83 in (72 mm)

Horsepower: 150 hp

Peak Torque: 94 ft. lbs.

Peak RPM: 9500

Compression Ratio: 13:1

60-Degree V Twin Stressed Member, Liquid cooling, Offset connecting rod journals, Forged aluminum pistons, Four-valve cylinder heads, Double overhead camshafts, Variable valve timing, Dual spark plugs per cylinder, Dual down draft throttle bodies, semi-dry 6-speed transmission

 

[Woody]

Including the Hitachi control module, Sylvania light bulbs, Siemens fuse boxes, Italian brake and clutch parts, Japanese suspension parts, the Slovenian exhaust system...

Should I continue?

Ok you got me. The air in the tires is from Canada. This time of year. Once again I see false info. OHLINS SHOCKS ARE NOT MADE IN JAPAN. But did you research what is on the INDIAN FTR 1200.
Probably not.

 

[Parminio]

Ok you got me.

Well, yeah. It's pretty easy to get someone that talks out of their ass.

OHLINS SHOCKS ARE NOT MADE IN JAPAN.

Wow! You're almost right! They're made in Sweden for the European market and some other markets. Their Japan factory makes up the bulk of their production though, so it's a pick-em as to where they actually come from.

But did you research what is on the INDIAN FTR 1200.

Yes. I did.

It's painfully obvious that you didn't. At all. In fact, you didn't even bother to look at a picture of it because if you did you would be a complete idiot to sit there and say that

All parts are made in USA.

This pic if from Indian's website:

FTR 1200cc Motorcycles | Indian Motorcycle



And those Brembo brakes are Italian.

And that Akrapovic exhaust is from Slovenia.

Should I go on or do you feel stupid enough as it is?

 

[Woody]

I'm glad you feel like you know it all.
My vmax was made in Japan. Are you going argue that also.
Didn't your mama ever tell you.If you can't say something nice. Keep your flap shut. Try it next time. You feel the need. To TRY and correct anyone.