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Thanks for the replies. While I am still learning what gears relate to what speeds and rpms I do my best to shift whiling making it as easy on the transmission as possible. If I am coming up to a stop, I hold the clutch and coast up to it as I down shift and brake. If that is not ok or not the right way to do it, please let me know!

One 'fear/anticipation' that is starting to build up in me is the event of a stop light turning yellow 30 feet in front of me. Do I try and I stop? Do I gas it? I think I need to get back in the parking lot and start feeling out my limitations with braking at speed so I can prepare for sudden stops and goes like yellow stop lights and humans not paying attention.

rawarrior, I am taking the MSF class for all the details I might miss teaching myself.

AND because it makes my insurance cheaper having completed it. Plus It's only $25 and I can beat on their 250cc and try things I wouldnt dare on the max.

I am logging miles solo through the neighborhoods and the city streets. It has been nothing but real world training thus far. When I think about it I can't tell if I am being irresponsible and dangerous or if i am underestimating my ability and I do belong training on the streets. I feel surprisingly confident and I feel like I am doing perfectly fine. The only thing that worries me is emergency situations that call for evasive maneuvers that I don't have the experience or skills for. I plan on continuing at the pace I am at. Logging 30-50 miles a day, everyday.
 
I'm sure people will disagree here, but to me the MSF "rider ed" courses are a waste of time. .
RaW, Now that I've been terrorizing the road and the wife for a couple years now, I agree with you in that the requirements to pass MSF is ridiculous. I suppose we are lucky or unfortunate depending on one's POV, that it requires next to nothing to be a legal motorcyclist when, as my wife's cousin explained it to me, it takes 300+ hours of road time of an instructor yelling into your helmet radio and countless weekend hours of lecture before any Frenchy is allowed to buy a motorbike. But as a "virgin motorcyclist", I had no point of reference as to what a good gain could be from taking a worthwhile course. And because of this, the first few weeks of me on my own against the world, I highly valued what I learned from the course. Things like how try and keep yourself visible not only to the vehicles next to you, but to the others in the medians and the ones waiting to turn into the traffic; proved to me to be worth the 6 o'clock Saturday morning cup of coffee.

My current opinion really doesn't matter in my case anyways, cuz in the Great Penile State of FL, passing the MSF is mandatory in order to have your driver's license endorsed for motorcycle operations. Matter of fact the dealer who sold me my Max demanded to see the endorsement before he proceeded with the negotiations.

I can't agree with you more about experience being the best teacher. The more you ride, the better you become.
 
The MSF Experienced Rider Course will teach you panic braking, rapid lane change maneuvers (more countersteering to save your butt!), and looking down the road, not in-front of your wheel. Developing your peripheral vision will help you avoid traffic idiots. Never change lanes w/o looking first! Your rear-view mirrors only show you so-much, and there could be a vehicle in your blind spot which your mirrors will not show you. So, you have to quickly glance over your shoulder w/a slight pivot of your head. You don't need to turn your head where your shoulder is almost touching your chin. This is where developing your peripheral vision will make that sideways glance a safer maneuver. When you are looking to the side or back, things could be happening in-front of you about-which you will want to be informed! Which brings me to my next advice.

Do not tailgate! Do not pull-up close to the bumper of the person in-front of you in traffic when slowing or when stopping for a traffic control device. Leave room to move to one side or the other if you see someone coming up from behind who is going to rear-end you. Hopefully, at the very least, you can pull between the rows of cars ahead of you and let the ***** hit the guy you were behind. Always, always, pay-attention to what is going on behind you at a stoppage, such-as a signal light or a stop sign. By moving forward between rows of traffic or onto the swale, you may avoid a rearward impact.

In your time on practice, you need to try quick stops from different speeds. To prove how this works, in a totally-empty area such-as a parking lot, try stopping from say, 25 mph using only the rear brake. See how-long it takes. Next time, use only the front brake. Then try it where you use both the front and rear brakes. It is amazing how-many people do not use their brakes properly. This drill will teach you to rely on powerful braking as-needed to save control of your bike. Vary your speeds and see how-far you go before you stop. Keep practicing.
 
All excellent points, FM!:punk:

The MSF Experienced Rider Course will teach you panic braking, rapid lane change maneuvers (more countersteering to save your butt!), and looking down the road, not in-front of your wheel.
perhaps, i took the exp'd course, perhaps not. if i didn't the extent of what i learned in MSF wasn't as advanced as the exp'd. whatever is the case, these concepts were introduced to us and, granted prolly not performed enough, but nonetheless were performed on the course. the instructor was constantly yelling at us to look up and to actually turn our heads and not our eyes. i got laid into a couple times for locking up the rear during panic stops. hahahaha.

Developing your peripheral vision will help you avoid traffic idiots. Never change lanes w/o looking first! Your rear-view mirrors only show you so-much, and there could be a vehicle in your blind spot which your mirrors will not show you. So, you have to quickly glance over your shoulder w/a slight pivot of your head. You don't need to turn your head where your shoulder is almost touching your chin. This is where developing your peripheral vision will make that sideways glance a safer maneuver. When you are looking to the side or back, things could be happening in-front of you about-which you will want to be informed! Which brings me to my next advice.
+1 although this was drilled into our heads, you really can't learn how to develop this skill in a parking lot. it can only be learned well in real-world practice.

Do not tailgate! Do not pull-up close to the bumper of the person in-front of you in traffic when slowing or when stopping for a traffic control device. Leave room to move to one side or the other if you see someone coming up from behind who is going to rear-end you. Hopefully, at the very least, you can pull between the rows of cars ahead of you and let the ***** hit the guy you were behind. Always, always, pay-attention to what is going on behind you at a stoppage, such-as a signal light or a stop sign. By moving forward between rows of traffic or onto the swale, you may avoid a rearward impact.
getting drilled from behind is my biggest fear. when i pull up to a stop light and am in the front, i have learned on my own (where were you FM to tell me these things, hahahaha) to keep my bike in 1st ready to launch while staring into my mirrors at car filing in behind me until it comes to a complete stop. if i'm not first at the stop light, i've learned to stop as far as i can to one side of the lane leaving me enough room to pull in between the cars in front of me in case a cage comes in too hot. IMPORTANT NOTE: FM and I ride in FL, where lane splitting is not legal, so we (well maybe not FM, hahahaha) have to sit behind cages at traffic lights.

In your time on practice, you need to try quick stops from different speeds. To prove how this works, in a totally-empty area such-as a parking lot, try stopping from say, 25 mph using only the rear brake. See how-long it takes. Next time, use only the front brake. Then try it where you use both the front and rear brakes. It is amazing how-many people do not use their brakes properly. This drill will teach you to rely on powerful braking as-needed to save control of your bike. Vary your speeds and see how-far you go before you stop. Keep practicing.
+1 PRACTICE PRACTICE PRACTICE.

And REMEMBER the recipe changes when water is added.
 
More good advice from personal experience. Ninjaneer said it right, you have to be vigilant. Surviving for the first few months is very important. A significant # of accidents happen during the 1st year.

The first MSF course was the Beginning Biker Course, and once you had experience, you could sign-up for the one I mentioned. The second one is definitely more detailed and worthwhile for someone who knows the basics but needs formal instruction to develop advanced skills.

I don't sit at a light w/the gearbox engaged. I do, however, watch my rear mirrors, and if I see someone coming in 'hot,' I will engage 1st gear & decide where to go. I have been rear-ended twice, during the < last 3 yrs. Fortunately it was in my truck, unfortunately, I had only made one payment when the first happened. An uninsured Caribbean teenage female, while I was in the queue for entering the FL Turnpike. Nearly $3K in damages.
 
The "fear/anticipation" will fade with seat time. You'll get more comfortable with the bike and it's abilities.

Many of the skills taught in the advanced MSF class are easily practiced yourself, for free, once you get comfortable with basic machine handling.

-Panic stops. Find a deserted road, ensure nobody is behind you, and practice stopping as fast as possible. Start at ~30mph. Get a feel for just how hard you can squeeze the brakes before you feel a shimmy...the precursor to locking. Gradually step up the speeds as your confidence builds.

-The bike follows your gaze. If you're going around a corner, keep your eye on the "vanishing point" of one of the road lines....not on the scenery, not on oncoming traffic, not on the car in front of you. Keep your eyes on where you want to go. Which isn't to say stare at it, stay alert for peripheral movement, but use that vanishing point around the corner as a guide or target.

-Countersteering. Probably the most important skill to bike handling....it's pretty simple in theory....push on the side of the handlebar you want to go. Push with right hand/pull with left to go right, and vice versa. This induces lean and thus a turn, and is more and more important at higher speeds and faster corners. Simply leaning body weight only goes so far. Again...start slow and easy to get a feel for the results of your input. It's all experience. Someone can lecture you about how to do it all day long but it's meaningless until you just do it.

-Recognize when you are in a blind spot(and don't hang out there). I loosely define this as when your front wheel is about 5ft in front of to 15ft behind of an adjacent vehicle's rear bumper. Not far enough up to be seen in the driver's periperal vision but not far enough back to be seen in the mirrors.

-Always be looking for escape routes and consciously keep one open. What if that car next to you suddenly slides into your lane? What if the one in front of you slams on the brakes for a squirrel? What if someone is going to rear end up at a red light....can you scoot onto the shoulder out of the way? Assume all drivers around you are morons, don't expect courtesy, drive defensively, but don't be afraid to play a motorcycle's strengths. i.e speed to get away, manuverability, and faster braking. Don't be afraid to speed if it's going to remove you from an aggressive driver or dangerous situation. Speed doesn't kill, the stop does. So just avoid that second part and you'll be fine.


They say leaving a transmission in gear with the clutch pulled in is a bad habit, to put it in neutral for longer stops, but honestly I don't see the difference. I like to keep it in gear until the car behind me has come to a stop...as said so you're ready to drop and launch if one behind you doesn't appear to be slowing down fast enough or not at all. I'd rather put a little extra wear on the throwout bearing than get smashed from behind. And considering I have yet to hear on this forum of someone having to change the throwout bearing, I don't think it's a real big deal.

Stuff like this and more little tips are things experienced riders can tell/show you, and can be practiced virtually anywhere, anytime. $25 is a reasonable price, I seem to remember hearing the weekend course at the local community college here was a couple hundred, one day of classroom and one day of crashing their 250's.
 
They say leaving a transmission in gear with the clutch pulled in is a bad habit, to put it in neutral for longer stops, but honestly I don't see the difference. I like to keep it in gear until the car behind me has come to a stop...as said so you're ready to drop and launch if one behind you doesn't appear to be slowing down fast enough or not at all. I'd rather put a little extra wear on the throwout bearing than get smashed from behind. And considering I have yet to hear on this forum of someone having to change the throwout bearing, I don't think it's a real big deal.

Even with my lack of experience I agree with you. For all intensive purposes, when the clutch is pulled in you are in neutral, right? When I am at a red light I have not once put the bike in neutral. I always keep it in 1st. Do any of you guys keep it in neutral at stops?
 
RaWarrior once-again has given you good advice. Your idea of incremental, constant usage & practice riding is going to pay-off. His advice about the blind spot is always one to heed. It doesn't matter if it's in your car or on a bike-avoid the blind spot.

I was coming home last night on my bike, and was by Ft. Lauderdale International Airport on US-1 which is a divided highway w/3-4 lanes ea. way. A PT Cruiser to my left was behind slower traffic, so he decided to change into the lane to his right, which is where I was. Because it was dark, I hit my high beam to alert him to the presence of my bike already where he intended to go. He came into the lane anyway, and at this point, I was next to him. I moved to the right side of the lane, he kept coming. I hit my horn & sped-up as the lane in-front of us was clear. He kept coming. At that point, because I was accelerating and got ahead of him, I was able to avoid his inattention or outright bullying ("I have a car, I am bigger, out of my way!") and avoided further conflict/possible aggression.

These types of incidents happen every day. If you are on the road long-enough, they will occur multiple times a day, that's just how it is. People "don't see you," or don't care about taking the right of way and putting you in harm's way because they want to be where you are. You constantly have to scan around you. get in the habit of checking your mirrors, and take the 'long view' down the road. As has been said, do not focus on the car in-front of you, anticipate reactions of traffic approaching from the opposite direction, especially at intersections. If I am approaching an intersection, I may slow down to 1st gear to crawl-across an intersection because I see the driver trying to make a left turn may choose to do that right in-front of you. Those things happen all too-frequently. And, don't forget that the car behind you may be inattentive, and may expect you to maintain speed through an intersection, instead of slowing down. Sometimes as I approach an intersection, if there is traffic close behind me, I may tap my front or rear brake several times to alert the driver behind me that I am "braking," even if I am only doing it to activate my brake light, and not enough to slow-yet. Most people will slow themselves but a few will either tailgate you or try to pull-around you because you are slowing.

Sometimes in traffic, I slow-down (keeping an eye on traffic behind me) and then use my acceleration to pull ahead of the people following by a good amount, leading to a gap behind me. I usually do this when there is traffic behind me who may be following too-closely. This creates a gap in-which you can ride w/o having the guy behind you tailgating.

I also prefer to ride in gaps in traffic, and the above technique I call "gapping." You make your own gap. Be aware that people in lanes to the right or left of you may decide that the gap you just created is now theirs to take, so you always have to be alert for people comng into your 'zone,' the space around you on all sides. You need to develop the defensive posture that you are aware of any encroachments into your 'zone,' which expands as your speed increases. Again, constantly scan ahead of you, in your mirrors, and if you turn your head to the side either way, do NOT do it very long, the person you may have been following too-closely may have just hit the brakes! That is not the situation in which you find yourself as a new rider, because if you nail the brakes and try to avoid slamming-into the slowing vehicle in-front of you, the amount of traction your front wheel/tire has may just have been overloaded, and you could either 'highside' or 'lowside' (falling-off your bike, one is where you essentially fly over the handlebars ahead of the bike, the bike's front wheel usually 'tucks' under and you catapult over the bars; the other is where you fall to one side or the other, as-if you just were stationary, pulled-up your feet, and had the bike topple to one side or the other).

Keep practicing as you have been. The more saddle time and the more you can practice using both brakes, and w/increasingly-stronger actuations of your brakes, the better-off you will be when you need them for-real because of an inattentive driver or an aggressive one. Do your braking hard in a straight line at first, and gradually learn how to do the same thing while turning.

Remember, while turning, you usually have more room to lean, so if you find yourself moving to the outside of a curve and you think you may be headed off the outside or across the center line, roll-off the gas, and lean the bike some-more. This is where the practice countersteering will save your butt. Try to keep light pressure on the throttle and as you round the curve, this is where you gently want to apply gas to get drive off the corner.

Think of marginal traction on the road as change from a dollar, where available traction is =$1.00. If you are using $.70 worth of traction for turning, and suddenly need to use $.50 for braking while in a curve because a car just pulled out in-front of you from a side street (it happens all the time, anticipate it), you have just spent morre than your $1.00 and are headed for an accident, unless you modify one or the other to allow you to not exceed that $1.00.

Riding in the rain is another example of this except that rain (and traction in it) costs you part of that $, right off the bat. Instead of $1.00 of traction, rain costs, let's say $.30, so now you only have $.70 to spend on traction, divided between acceleration, braking, and turning. Don't short-change yourself!

Smoothness in operation is a good way to operate a motorcycle, jerky movements can unsettle the bike and rob $ out of your traction funds. Spend your money wisely, and invest in your future by practice as you have been.

To answer your question: yes, I usually put it into neutral just before coming to a stop. Then I 'cover' the clutch lever (fingers on the clutch lever, ready to pull it in) and watch to see that the traffic behind me is stopping. If they come-in behind me too-fast, I drop it into first gear in-preparation for squirting ahead or to the side to avoid the rear-end collision. I do not typically sit with the clutch pulled-in & the bike in gear at a light, waiting for it to change.

You should also 'cover' the front brake lever, especially crossing intersections. If your hands are big-enough and your levers are correctly sized and adjusted, you can use two fingers to do this, where you gently rest your index and middle fingers on-top of the front brake lever. You can also 'cover' the rear brake pedal so you get maximum braking effort when needed. Remember, your stopping distance using the rear brake only is two or more times what you can achieve using both front and rear brakes in-unison.
 
Dude, benefit from the wealth of knowledge being bestowed. I know I am. It is invaluable. To clarify my method, I'm in first with the clutch pulled until the car behind me has come to a complete stop. After which I pop it into neutral, if for anything, to give my hand a break from my DD'd clutch.

Another thing I do is tap my brakes in an attempt to alert the incoming vehicle

I also slow down a bit when approaching the intersection-mostly to make sure I don't get cut off by a left-hand turner as FM notes, but also to anticipate that 30 yard yellow light you are froggy about. Also, I position myself in the leftmost lane when coming to an intersection to keep myself visible to the cars wanting to turn right, into my flow of traffic. This has saved me more than a few times from the cage's view of me being blocked by the vehicle ahead of me turning right leaving my flow of traffic. Hope that makes sense.

One more thing, be leary of the cars that get stuck behind cars making right-hand turns turning out of traffic into le's say a parking lot. They tend to want to jump into your lane if you are in the lane that is left of them. Hope that makes sense. Also even though their stalking skills leave a lot to be desired because they don't blend into the surroundings very well, watch out for those cars sitting at a side-street stop sign. They may appear to be innocent sitting there, but some want to pounce on you just as you get in front of them.

Drive like the cagers are out to kill you and allow your survival instincts to be your guide.

Regards from my Taptalking Hercules Android
 
...Also, I position myself in the leftmost lane when coming to an intersection to keep myself visible to the cars wanting to turn right, into my flow of traffic. This has saved me more than a few times from the cage's view of me being blocked by the vehicle ahead of me turning right leaving my flow of traffic. Hope that makes sense.
Regards from my Taptalking Hercules Android
had some free time during lunch to draw up a visual aid
intersection.jpg
Note that I am also showing that I never drive down the middle of a lane. I am always on the left-side or right-side of a lane to improve my visibility. I try to perform "Series 2" (bottom) all the time or at least some kind of variant. I try not to put myself into a situation in which I must resort to "Series 1".
 
That's a nice diagram ninjaneer. I had an incident last fall that relates to this. I was stopped at a light behind a full-size pickup. When the light turned green and traffic began to move the pick-up decided to make a right-turn into a busy Wal-Mart parking lot about a block past the light, and I thought "watch some clown decide he's got a break in traffic and zip out to turn left" and, sure enough, the pickup was still halfway on the highway when a car guns it out of the parking lot about 6 feet in front of me. He never even seen me and by the time he would have seen me he would've ran me over, but caution saved my butt that day. I could've been stupid and gassed it as soon as I had room to go by but that would've just gotten me ran over also.

Ride like you are invisible, and never assume that the other drivers see you.
 
One more thing, be leary of the cars that get stuck behind cars making right-hand turns turning out of traffic into le's say a parking lot. They tend to want to jump into your lane if you are in the lane that is left of them. Hope that makes sense. ...
Found a couple more minutes of down time
impatient cage.jpg
 
Hey, guys! Since I last wrote here, I have logged a couple hundred miles.

I got an email reminder for my MSF class for June 21st. Out of curiosity I checked the schedule to see how far advanced booked the class is. Then I saw there was a class open for yesterday. 1 open seat. I quickly rescheduled for yesterday!

4 hours of sitting in a classroom with some pretty unintelligent adults that probably shouldn't be riding motorcycles and I completed 1/3 of the class!

Tomorrow we go riding from 7am to 1pm. Same on Sunday.

I have been riding my max since the day I got. Should I bring it to ride for class or should I use their bike? It makes sense to me to practice on my own bike because that's what I will be riding forever but is there an advantage to using one of their smaller bikes?

What do you guys think? If I use their bike then I won't have to pay for gas either day!
 
NO! well at least here in FL it wouldn't be wise. BECAUSE, technically we cannot have a motorcycle endorsement without completing the MSF class, which would mean that we illegally drove to the bike to the class. hahahaha. there were a few folks in my class who were taking the course "after the fact" and were just beside themselves because they wanted to be on their own bikes.
 
I have my tempts, so I am street legal. Just no passengers, no highways, gotta wear a helmet, and be home before dark.

I ride to work and around town now. Haven't been on the highway yet. Not sure if I want to take my max to the class or not. Hmmmmm
 
Give them a call and see what their policy is.

Regards from my Taptalking Hercules Android
 
Nah, learn and/or crash on their bike! Well, I hope you don't crash! You have years to come to ride yours. Just pay attention to the useful information, and then practice things they show you in the near future. Countersteering, panic braking, what your bike is capable of when cornering, remember, you can nearly-always lean more! And, that's when the countersteering can help. You just have to practice it so it becomes second-nature.
 
Good call, FireMedic. And I get to use their gas too. Now, do I choose the 250cc cruiser or sport bike... hmmmmmm
 
Hey, guys. It's been a couple weeks since my last update. I have put a few hundred miles on the bike since then. I ride to work every day I can. I haven't completed the MSF class so I am still a permit rider.

I need tires next. Wanna get the metz but I will have to wait til july for them. I could get the shingos now but maybe the metz are worth the wait.

Just got my new grab bar from PATMAX. He did a nice job with the powder coating and it feels nice to get the sissy bar off.

Before: wussy bar + windshield
IMAG0445.jpg

After:pATMAX bar - windshield
IMAG0446.jpg


Thank you, PATMAX!!!
 
I think they look like a bulldog w/o the sissy bar. I just got a low grabbar/complete fender & lights assy. today w/the help of "ninjaneer."
 
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