obama care?This can't be right!Can it.

[woodsman30]

The GOP did not cause the shut down. Where is our budget proposal for the last 6 years you cannot spend without knowing how much is there to spend. I think its fair to say all households and businesses have budgets we could not operate with out one. Its call living in your means. Unlimited spending with little regards to the future caused the shut down. Perhaps that's where the blame is this is not about Democrats or Republicans its about having a future we the people can afford.

 

[Kronx]

Well you and I will agree to disagree. I see the shutdown and the budget as two different situations even though they are indeed in the same family.

Yes, congress as a whole, Dem and Repub, have failed their constituency by not being able to pass a balanced budget. The debt ceiling increase is a by-product of this failure. However, the government could still be operational regardless of their current inability to balance the budget. This government shutdown is more than just WW2 veterans not being able to visit a memorial. This is a bigger effect on markets globally and each day puts us closer to default which is gonna screw us hard economically.

Yea, our "family budget" sucks, I'm not denying that. But why DELIBERATELY make it worse? That's the issue I'm having with this. It pisses me off the idiots are ******* up peoples lives over this stupid posturing.

I have one of those rare divorces where I still get along with the ex-wife. She works for Social Security. She's one of the "essential" federal employees which means... she has to work, but she isn't getting paid for it. She's having to work out deals with her mortgage company, her utilities, etc. She's stressing, she's scared, and now her life has been turned upside down because they DELIBERATELY made this **** worse than it needed to be.

Yea, it's a bit personal for me, so I admit to not being 100% objective. I've been an independent voter for a long time. I'm no fan of Obama, but these idiots in DC are out of touch and ******* with lives of a lot of middle class families. And it's a domino effect.

 

[putin]

these idiots in DC are out of touch and ******* with lives of a lot of middle class families.

They are not idiots they are very smart bandits (rep and dem) who are stealing taxpayers money (since so called "revolution" 200 years ago.) Real idiots are ignorant brainwashed middle class (who exist only in imagination , by the way), that can not see more than the length of their nose. :bang head: There is no real economy in USA, no jobs either . The end is near - welcome to the 3 world.

 

[forestdaledave]

Cobblestones David. Cobblestones. Roads were paved with cobblestones back on those times. Read the book sometime David.

I have read the bible. Actually took literature of the bible in college. You show me where in the bible it says roads were paved with cobblestones. Especially the road to hell. Because any road paved with cobblestones traveled over with chariots would be hell. lol
David

 

[jfeagins]

I have read the bible. Actually took literature of the bible in college. You show me where in the bible it says roads were paved with cobblestones. Especially the road to hell. Because any road paved with cobblestones traveled over with chariots would be hell. lol
David

I think you should be close by those roads down there in Mexico.

 

[Traumahawk]

From what Ive heard the government isnt completely shut down (83% is) so 17 percent of it is still operational.

 

[Traumahawk]

these idiots in DC are out of touch and ******* with lives of a lot of middle class families. And it's a domino effect.

You and I are in 100% agreement

 

[poppop]

They are not idiots they are very smart bandits (rep and dem) who are stealing taxpayers money (since so called "revolution" 200 years ago.) Real idiots are ignorant brainwashed middle class (who exist only in imagination , by the way), that can not see more than the length of their nose. :bang head: There is no real economy in USA, no jobs either . The end is near - welcome to the 3 world.

I agree The government,I believe get there orders from the builderburg group,A very smart group.There gonna take over,One way or the other.The government shutdown doesn't hurt the govt.Neither does the dept celing.Obamacare doesn't affect them .All these things affect us!The big banks stand to make a fortune if we default.It's like playing chess with 2 pawns left.Either way We lose. and they have several choices,They are in a win win sceranio.

 

[cgswss]

Well you and I will agree to disagree. I see the shutdown and the budget as two different situations even though they are indeed in the same family.

Yes, congress as a whole, Dem and Repub, have failed their constituency by not being able to pass a balanced budget. The debt ceiling increase is a by-product of this failure. However, the government could still be operational regardless of their current inability to balance the budget. This government shutdown is more than just WW2 veterans not being able to visit a memorial. This is a bigger effect on markets globally and each day puts us closer to default which is gonna screw us hard economically.

The gov dosen't have to shut down- the DEMs are doing that The Repubs have passed a number of funding bills to keep things open and insure we won't default. All the Dems have to do is pass them. The Dems have gone out of their way to hurt people in this.

None of this would ever have come up if Obama had a budget. Have you heard of the dems working on any sort of budget since the LAST CR was passed?

I can not imagine how bad things would be if the dems controlled all three branches of government. We have a person in the white house that says we don't have a spending problem and 17 trillion in debt is no big deal.

I hear people all the time say "well I didn't vote for him" but most of them didn't vote for Ronmey. And now we have this health care bill that will put nearly every working person in the US in a hardship.

 

[Sweetwilliebrownjr]

republican, democrat, who gives a ****. Thankfully, I have insurance through work, though premiums are still on the rise. My medical expenses were 54000 last year mainly for a surgery my wife had. I ended up paying 1154 dollars after insurance did their part. If I had obama care, my premium would have been 7200 up from my now 5300 a year. That's for the plan that covers 70 percent. My deductible would be almost 13000. So, a 2000 increase in premiums, and a lower percentage of coverage with an astronomical deductible. I'm also not eligible for subsidies. That's 25000 dollars out of pocket for me, as opposed to 1154. That's nearly half of my take home income. That would leave me with around 30000 take home pay for the year. Between a house payment, utilities, auto insurance (required), and groceries, that's an extra 1800 a month. That's roughly 22000 a year. I have 8000 left. My wife owns her car, but mines $450 a month. That's 5400 a year. I'm now left with 2600 dollars. My house taxes are 2200 a year. I've got 400 left. What about my kid's daycare? 525 a month. That's 6300. Now I'm in the hole, and have other bills and unexpected expenses. Where's the affordability? I'm a mechanic, and haven't had anything handed to me. I bust my *** to make a living for me and my family. Obamacare would eat any chance my family had of a decent life, and ruin any chance for my kid to ever get an education, and better himself. There's my .02 cents.

 

[Itgoes]

republican, democrat, who gives a ****. Thankfully, I have insurance through work, though premiums are still on the rise. My medical expenses were 54000 last year mainly for a surgery my wife had. I ended up paying 1154 dollars after insurance did their part. If I had obama care, my premium would have been 7200 up from my now 5300 a year. That's for the plan that covers 70 percent. My deductible would be almost 13000. So, a 2000 increase in premiums, and a lower percentage of coverage with an astronomical deductible. I'm also not eligible for subsidies. That's 25000 dollars out of pocket for me, as opposed to 1154. That's nearly half of my take home income. That would leave me with around 30000 take home pay for the year. Between a house payment, utilities, auto insurance (required), and groceries, that's an extra 1800 a month. That's roughly 22000 a year. I have 8000 left. My wife owns her car, but mines $450 a month. That's 5400 a year. I'm now left with 2600 dollars. My house taxes are 2200 a year. I've got 400 left. What about my kid's daycare? 525 a month. That's 6300. Now I'm in the hole, and have other bills and unexpected expenses. Where's the affordability? I'm a mechanic, and haven't had anything handed to me. I bust my *** to make a living for me and my family. Obamacare would eat any chance my family had of a decent life, and ruin any chance for my kid to ever get an education, and better himself. There's my .02 cents.

You're describing one unfortunate year in which you had significant expenses. Without insurance you would have been $54,000 hole. Much worse off.

Some real serious surgeries or things like postnatal care for premature babies can run into the hundreds of thousands of dollars. This will bankrupt most people.

If you only paid $1154 out of pocket, you have an outstanding medical plan and are definitely in the minority.

And again this plan is for people who do not have any insurance at all.......they are the people who will benefit.

Pick the plan that is close to the equivalent of your current plan......include your employers contribution and I think it'll be a better comparision.

 

[Sweetwilliebrownjr]

I do have outstanding insurance, and am more than happy about that, no doubt. I had a kid a little over 2 years ago. I don't remember the costs, but I'm sure it was significant. I had an eye injury the next year which would have put me about 10K in payments. The year before I had the kid, I had a wrench slip and hit me in the chin. That was a 7500 dollar trip to the emergency room without insurance. So, those 4 years or so would have put me far in debt, and cost me basically everything I've worked for years.

Question: Do you think the folks that didn't have insurance, but now have obamacare are ever gonna pay anything past the premium? Couple that with the fact that folks in a situation such as mine, who (unlike me) wind up having to use obamacare, and absolutely cannot afford to do so, and you have an inordinate amount of people in more debt than ever, because we all have to pay for the lazy, sorry, and unwilling to work folks that comprise the majority of the group who this plan was designed to benefit. The amount of people living in poverty will increase ridiculously. Just because the biased news that everyone sees and reads only tells the positive side of things doesn't make it so. People that want this program are just happy because they get to take more of the wealth from the population of hard working folks for themselves.

 

[Itgoes]

One point I was trying to make is you are not comparing apples to apples. You only pay $5300 a year now because your employer probably pays 60% or more of your premium. The real cost of the policy is probably more like $13,000.

The cost is what it is, the policies available through Obamacare are in line with the industry norms.

because we all have to pay for the lazy, sorry, and unwilling to work folks

If that's your belief, then there will be no convincing you that the law is any good.

I'll tell you though in my job I see a lot of hard working people, some working for large very profitable companies that don't have any benefits. Lot's of large corporations have gone to hiring through temp agencies so that they can have workers at their beck and call and not have to provide any benefits. Many others are only offered part time jobs that also have no benefits. The companies do it for one reason only....to improve their bottom line and keep the shareholders happy.

 

[Sweetwilliebrownjr]

Valid point. I have another question now, because I honestly don't know. The money the companies would have been forking over for insurance; where does it go now? Are the companies taxed to make up for it, or do the companies just keep it? Either way, it's still just redistributing money, and either ends up with companies having more money, or the government having more money. If the companies just keep it, then that's taking from the middle class to fund the poor, and taking from them to fund the rich. So, it would basically be removing the middle class from any benefit from it. I sat down and tried to read the obamacare law, but don't have time to read a thousand pages of political writing and figure it out, so undoubtedly, I'm probably wrong about some stuff, but from what I do know, it's just all around bad. It's a good idea to get everyone insurance, and has good parts, but why fund it from the pockets of folks who worked their ***** off to get it on their own?

 

[woodsman30]

I heard an analogy yesterday and I wish to share it. Now I want you to think of a person say forty years old and up to date on current affairs but this person went in a coma ten years ago and just woke up a week ago so now they are 50 years old.
Given what has taken place in ten years this person might think that America had suffered a coup or perhaps taken over by another country. Think what Americans has lost in freedoms, jobs, privacy, school controlled by the government this list is a lot longer but you get the idea.

So what could we tell this person what went wrong?
Do the same analogy increasing the years 20,40.
This country is on the wrong track ..good for you if you are doing well but what of your kids? their kids? What legacy are we leaving?
A country founded by the idea that freedom was and is the most important thing period. To have a chance to live life unimpeded by an outside force.

No matter your opinion of "Obamacare" deep down inside every last one of you who read this knows there something wrong in America. Think about it.

 

[Tex85]

no matter your opinion of "obamacare" deep down inside every last one of you who read this knows there something wrong in america. Think about it.

+∞

 

[LumMax]

I will say this and listen good. Can you say Civil War. Yes I said it Civil War is the only way to stop this *********.
Get Ready folks it is coming. An a Quote from our Greatest President in the history of man kind "Yes We Can"...... Civil War that is.

 

[Sharky]

Whats the go in us with insurance...you have to pay or get fined ???

 

[Itgoes]

I heard an analogy yesterday and I wish to share it. Now I want you to think of a person say forty years old and up to date on current affairs but this person went in a coma ten years ago and just woke up a week ago so now they are 50 years old.
Given what has taken place in ten years this person might think that America had suffered a coup or perhaps taken over by another country. Think what Americans has lost in freedoms, jobs, privacy, school controlled by the government this list is a lot longer but you get the idea.

So what could we tell this person what went wrong?
Do the same analogy increasing the years 20,40.
This country is on the wrong track ..good for you if you are doing well but what of your kids? their kids? What legacy are we leaving?
A country founded by the idea that freedom was and is the most important thing period. To have a chance to live life unimpeded by an outside force.

No matter your opinion of "Obamacare" deep down inside every last one of you who read this knows there something wrong in America. Think about it.

Which freedoms do you miss the most? Can you name half a dozen or so? I'm not being a wise ***, I'm genuinely interested because I hear this a lot and I can't think of one.

 

[woodsman30]

Which freedoms do you miss the most? Can you name half a dozen or so? I'm not being a wise ***, I'm genuinely interested because I hear this a lot and I can't think of one.

Seriously? Your post indicate you know the in and out of healthcare "law" but know nothing of other current events really? Perhaps some reading is in order on your part.

This is a link to a site that leans to the left "Democrat or Liberal" This is a chronological order of the " health care systems and who has done what". This is fairly accurate and no I am of neither party I am a Conservative Independent.
http://www.discoverthenetworks.org/viewSubCategory.asp?id=615

Below is a link of a law that's over rides due process
http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politic...ama-signs-act-to-allow-detention-of-citizens/

Here is a link that over rides the First Amendment( In short the can shut down any and all communications)
http://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press...national-security-and-emergency-preparedness-

Should I post more? Notice none of this info is from Republicans,
Independents, or the tin foil hat society. I can go back to when the government passed a law that says it does not have to be accountable to the American public remember the cold war?