Permanent solution for starter clutch problems

[dingy]

As some of you know I am a closet Vmax kinda guy. I have an 83 1st gen Venture, which is the bike the VMax was developed from, with some of the fast Vmax parts on it.

One of the issues the Vmax's seem to share with the 1st gen Ventures is the failure rate of the starter clutch. One of our long time members ( we don't call them Juniors or Seniors over there) has developed a fix that will 99.999% eliminate the starter clutch problem. Attached are some pictures of the mod he is doing. I have talked with him about doing this for the members on this group and he will help those interested.

What it basically consists of is installing a multi-element sprag clutch into the rotor along with a heavier 72 tooth gear. The sprag clutch has been around a long time and is used in many industrial and automotive applications. The one he has developed uses 19 element, spring loaded elliptical sprags compared to our 3 roller set up.

This site may explain a little more about how sprags work.

http://www.gmnbt.com/freewheel_technology.htm

The primary thread that deals with this is located at the VentureRider.org site:

http://www.venturerider.org/forum/showthread.php?t=44547

The cost is $295 including return shipping (US only, others locations vary), and I believe this included the two side cover gaskets.

If you would like to contact him, PM me and I will send you his contact info.

I am not involved in any way with this other than sharing its availability with this group.

Gary

 

[Miles Long]

Thanks for the Venture solution to the starter clutch problem.
On the same topic -
I have no starter problems as yet on my '03, but I was wondering if Yamaha has addressed this issue with a factory modification of some sort?
I thought I had read in this forum, or another, about later model year bikes having "peened" bolt heads, or something along those lines, but I can't find the post. Perhaps it was a modification one of our members has done? In any event, I try to avoid starting the bike with a partially-discharged battery. Popular opinion on this forum is that this is the primary cause of starter clutch problems.
Cheers, Miles

 

[satariel666]

I was waiting till somone will adapt the modern starter clutch into v-max flywheel.
I was thinkking about some swap from modern bike but I can see that someone bulid this from a scratch.
Good one, i like it.

I think i will do this mod myself in the future.
So far my SC lives a third year - so far!

EDIT:
Stock v-max SC is also somehow a "sprag" clutch.

EDIT 2:
IMHO 300 bucks for one bearing and its adapter is a bit high but thats only me

 

[gamorg02]

neat idea but yea $300 is a bit high. mine doesn't sound like rocks but it slips when cold (like ryans)

 

[satariel666]

neat idea but yea $300 is a bit high. mine doesn't sound like rocks but it slips when cold (like ryans)

Send me that bearing and i will design the rest for ya

 

[gamorg02]

Send me that bearing and i will design the rest for ya

is it an oem bearing or an aftermarket?

 

[satariel666]

is it an oem bearing or an aftermarket?

Nope, not oem. Its a kinda specal one.
Most defo expensive one!

 

[dtoebaert-5311]

Looks nice, but $300? Keeping your battery tended will save your starter clutch IMHO

 

[Thevmaxrider]

Or you can just install a PCW heavy duty SC. They also TIG weld in the bolts to keep them from backing out instead of just peening the ends.

 

[Rusty McNeil]

This seems like a good idea to me, The three roller Sprag on the Vmax creates three distinct pressure points that stress the hell out of the cage, all those extra rollers would seem to evenly distribute the load...what a good idea

Is this what modern starter clutches look like?

 

[satariel666]

Similar, more like multiple version of stock gen1 clutch.

 

[one2dmax]

OK, looks like the parts to do the conversion are about $300. The later Star engines have this setup and is likely where the parts are being used from. We may start offering this repair as well.

Initially I was thinking about having the guy noted above do the work but I think we can do it as part of our flywheel lightening service (of course the extra cost for the parts would be involved).

Sean

 

[Rusty McNeil]

My V65 had something similiar to this built into the DRIVE clutch, I think it was to keep the wheel from locking up on excessive downshifting, I never really niticed it in operation, at least it didn't effect engine braking...

 

[RaWarrior]

An interesting mod and something Yamaha should have done, but I'm not really sure it's worth $300. I pulled mine apart and put red loc-tite on the bolts. During "normal" riding, say 40 degrees or higher, it has never not once "missed" on me since fixing the loose bolts. In very cold temps, below freezing or so, sometimes it skips, though I've found holding the throttle just cracked off idle solves this for whatever reason and it cranks normally.

 

[gamorg02]

An interesting mod and something Yamaha should have done, but I'm not really sure it's worth $300. I pulled mine apart and put red loc-tite on the bolts. During "normal" riding, say 40 degrees or higher, it has never not once "missed" on me since fixing the loose bolts. In very cold temps, below freezing or so, sometimes it skips, though I've found holding the throttle just cracked off idle solves this for whatever reason and it cranks normally.

ryan when i had mine apart the starter ring gear itself had slight 'waviness' where the dogs engaged on it, possibly that gets worn down eh? i had the same symptoms you do now, but one bolt was loose. red loctite, peen and thats all she wrote.

 

[one2dmax]

Keep in mind the equivalent new parts for the vmax design runs $210 so another $90 isn't all that bad for the parts not counting what it costs to do the work (drilling the holes for the new bolt pattern).

Sean

 

[gamorg02]

Keep in mind the equivalent new parts for the vmax design runs $210 so another $90 isn't all that bad for the parts not counting what it costs to do the work (drilling the holes for the new bolt pattern).

Sean

i agree completely, but for most of us it just seems we need new bolts and a gasket cover, $20 vs $300 then is a big amt to swallow.

unless you're like me and mangle your flywheel. haha.

 

[one2dmax]

If the bolts are all it needs then I do agree! But, many times it's cracked the starter clutch.

Sean

 

[one2dmax]

Here's the late model Venture starter clutch assembly.

 

[ncdoc0623414]

Or you can just install a PCW heavy duty SC. They also TIG weld in the bolts to keep them from backing out instead of just peening the ends.

how difficult is the install of the pcw unit could it be completed by a competent novice.