Ran out of fuel, now wo t strat

[neck braced]

I had my 97 vmax delivered last weekend. I took it to the petrol station this morning as I noticed it was delivered on fuel reserve tank.
mot ran out of fuel on the way! After filling back up with a fuel can , the bike started but would only tick over. Eventually after a few minutes it cut out. Now won’t start. Stranded in a near by garage.
crap in the carbs from the tank?
having never put a spanner near the bike. Worried I have issues

 

[Fire-medic]

Oh boy, not fun because you're thinking, "I've bought a pig in a poke, and I'm holding the bag." Sounds like you need to begin with the basics.

A fully-charged battery.

Fresh fuel, that you know the carburetor bowls are filled, with fresh gas, without crap from a rusty tank.

A good, powerful spark, at the right time.

The battery is easy, charge it. Try load-testing it, to ensure it's not nearly-dead, a low battery can boggle your starter and its drive mechanism! Ensure that the battery contacts are shiny-bright clean metal, and that the thick ground wire by the oil filler, where the wire connects to an engine case cover screw, is also clean and tight.

Under the seat, (remove it) you will find a tube from the pipe off the top of the gas tank, going to the gas filter. Remove the tube where it connects to the gas filter. Place it into a clear receptacle, and turn on the key. The fuel pump should immediately tick-over, and fuel should flow into the receptacle as-long as the key is 'on.' Be sure to do this in the open, and preferably not in your garage. You should have a hose and a fire extinguisher easily-retrieved for use, "just in-case." Fumes from spilled gasoline can travel to an ignition source, like a gas-powered hot water heater, a home heating unit, etc. and can ignite, even if it's 20+ feet-away! Safety.

Let's assume that you got plenty of gas, and that it's clean, with no debris, nor any water. Water in gasoline makes a 'lens' of different viscosity, very easy to see. Water contaminated gas needs replacement.

The next in-line component is the fuel filter. Remove it, and try to blow through the side closest-to the gas tank. You should easily have no-problem doing this. Any impediment, or obstruction to blowing a good volume of air through it, and you may have one culprit to the bike not-running. You can replace it with a generic filter sized similarly, take it to your local automotive parts house for match-up.

If I have a stopped-up or poorly-flowing gas (petrol) filter, I slice it open, to see what crud is causing the obstruction. At this point, I would also be shining a flashlight into the fuel filler neck, to check on the condition of the gas tank interior. If you do-not see shiny metal on the bottom of the gas tank, either you have rust or gummed-up crappy gas contaminant there, or you may have a coated gas tank, they are not coated from the factory.

A rusty gas tank needs to be removed from the bike to restore it. Cleaning the tank can be done a number of ways. Electrolysis, pressure-washing, throwing a bunch of small nuts/bolts into it, and shaking it for enough time to break-loose the rust (some guys wrap it in carpet and throw it into a clothes dryer when the missus isn't looking), 6% or stronger vinegar (remove the fuel low-level sending unit and block-off the holes for mounting it, or your liquid may eat it alive), Evaporust liquid, are some methods for doing this. You can use the forum 'advanced search' function to read-up on all these.

Say you got lucky, the tank is shiny inside. You got petrol to the gas filter, found a dirty filter, replaced it, now see what comes out of the carburetor overflow hoses, those small black rubber hoses sticking out the sides of the bike's carburetor brackets (the attachment shows how a member used pop rivets to attach his black rubber carb drain hoses on the inside of the carb mount brackets, normally the hoses stick-through the brackets-no pop-rivets. He also removed the individual caps from the carburetor nipples used for carburetor synchronization, and ran a short length of hose from one carb to the other, this is not how the factory did it), below the constant-velocity carburetor round caps. You'll see a small phillips screw to one side of the base of each carb, loosen that a few turns, and gasoline should flow-out, capture the gasoline to see what crap it may have in it. Do 1 carb drain at a time, and empty the gas from your receptacle in-between. You want to inspect what comes-out from each.

As to spark, the bike already ran, yes? You can remove one spark plug boot, install a spare spark plug to it, and ground it out to bare metal, with insulated pliers as the starter button is engaged. You should bet a fat blue spark, a weak yellow spark, and that indicates an issue, likely a poorly-charged battery.

There is a brass crimp inside the wire harness, you can solder that to get better conductivity of the charging system, it costs literally-nothing, and you can often gain more-than 1+ volt in the system when you do this. You remove the insulation (see attachment) do the soldering (a 25 watt iron may not be sufficient) and re-insulate things well.

Well, that's a start.

Cleaning the carburetors requires removal from the bike, partial disassembly, at least into two pairs of carbs, and float bowl removal and then jet block removal, the removing the two small brass jets in each jet block, ensuring they are not plugged-up, carb cleaner into passages, and compressed air, at a minimum. There are on-the-bike attempts you can try (search 'peashooter,' search 'shotgun') but I don't bother with them if I suspect an obstructed carburetor circuit, off they come and apart, and into an ultrasonic bath. The pilot jet seems to be the bane of VMaxes left-sitting with gas in the float bowls, it's a terribly-small passage, any crap and it can plug-solid, resulting in a poor idle. The only effective way to solve an obstructed pilot jet is to remove the carbs, split them into two-pairs of carbs, and then open the float bowl, and remove the jet block, to remove the tiny brass jets inside (carburetor diagram: #15 pilot jet; #17 main bleed pipe), hiding behind those black rubber plugs, and yes, you need those plugs in-place and intact. I've bought used bikes where some well-intentioned idiot neglected to tighten the jets, they screw-in/out, it doesn't require much torque. Then the rubber plugs need to be replaced upon assembly, you cannot neglect to re-install them! On one used bike, besides missing carburetor jet block rubber plugs/caps, on one of the jet block rubber plugs, when I removed it, the jet fell-out, it wasn't even screwed-in! No-wonder it 'ran like crap!' That lack of mechanical aptitude just drove-down the price. Gee, thanks, fellah! Fortunately he left hands-off the heavy reciprocating parts of the engine.

A word about the pilot jet, that's the one with a single strand of stainless steel wire through the hole (attachment). If you don't have the exact size of slotted screwdriver to fit the jet block hole, and the slot in the pilot jet or the other carburetor jets, buy ones which do fit, well. You do-not want to bugger-up the slot to remove the jets each has for installation/removal. In the event that you do break-off one side of the brass slot, you can probably use a reverse-thread drill bit (left-hand twist) to remove the jet safely. However like COVID, it's better to take precautionary steps to avoid it in the first place.

Service manual:
vmoa.net/VMX12-Service-Manual01.pdf

Parts:
PartNumbers.pdf (vmoa.net)

 

[02GF74]

If you managed to ride at least a few 100 yards without the engine making nasty noises then whatever the problem is, it's unlikely to be expensive.

You did check the engine oil?

What condition is the battery and is it getting charged when engine is running.

There are a number of cut outs, check they are not disabled. Also check choke position.

The pilot jets are notorious for getting blocked depending on how long it has been standing.

Check for spark first, the start on the fuel system, starting with the pump a d filter.

 

[ouchez]

Oh boy, not fun because you're thinking, "I've bought a pig in a poke, and I'm holding the bag." Sounds like you need to begin with the basics.

A fully-charged battery.

Fresh fuel, that you know the carburetor bowls are filled, with fresh gas, without crap from a rusty tank.

A good, powerful spark, at the right time.

The battery is easy, charge it. Try load-testing it, to ensure it's not nearly-dead, a low battery can boggle your starter and its drive mechanism! Ensure that the battery contacts are shiny-bright clean metal, and that the thick ground wire by the oil filler, where the wire connects to an engine case cover screw, is also clean and tight.

Under the seat, (remove it) you will find a tube from the pipe off the top of the gas tank, going to the gas filter. Remove the tube where it connects to the gas filter. Place it into a clear receptacle, and turn on the key. The fuel pump should immediately tick-over, and fuel should flow into the receptacle as-long as the key is 'on.' Be sure to do this in the open, and preferably not in your garage. You should have a hose and a fire extinguisher easily-retrieved for use, "just in-case." Fumes from spilled gasoline can travel to an ignition source, like a gas-powered hot water heater, a home heating unit, etc. and can ignite, even if it's 20+ feet-away! Safety.

Let's assume that you got plenty of gas, and that it's clean, with no debris, nor any water. Water in gasoline makes a 'lens' of different viscosity, very easy to see. Water contaminated gas needs replacement.

The next in-line component is the fuel filter. Remove it, and try to blow through the side closest-to the gas tank. You should easily have no-problem doing this. Any impediment, or obstruction to blowing a good volume of air through it, and you may have one culprit to the bike not-running. You can replace it with a generic filter sized similarly, take it to your local automotive parts house for match-up.

If I have a stopped-up or poorly-flowing gas (petrol) filter, I slice it open, to see what crud is causing the obstruction. At this point, I would also be shining a flashlight into the fuel filler neck, to check on the condition of the gas tank interior. If you do-not see shiny metal on the bottom of the gas tank, either you have rust or gummed-up crappy gas contaminant there, or you may have a coated gas tank, they are not coated from the factory.

A rusty gas tank needs to be removed from the bike to restore it. Cleaning the tank can be done a number of ways. Electrolysis, pressure-washing, throwing a bunch of small nuts/bolts into it, and shaking it for enough time to break-loose the rust (some guys wrap it in carpet and throw it into a clothes dryer when the missus isn't looking), 6% or stronger vinegar (remove the fuel low-level sending unit and block-off the holes for mounting it, or your liquid may eat it alive), Evaporust liquid, are some methods for doing this. You can use the forum 'advanced search' function to read-up on all these.

Say you got lucky, the tank is shiny inside. You got petrol to the gas filter, found a dirty filter, replaced it, now see what comes out of the carburetor overflow hoses, those small black rubber hoses sticking out the sides of the bike's carburetor brackets (the attachment shows how a member used pop rivets to attach his black rubber carb drain hoses on the inside of the carb mount brackets, normally the hoses stick-through the brackets-no pop-rivets. He also removed the individual caps from the carburetor nipples used for carburetor synchronization, and ran a short length of hose from one carb to the other, this is not how the factory did it), below the constant-velocity carburetor round caps. You'll see a small phillips screw to one side of the base of each carb, loosen that a few turns, and gasoline should flow-out, capture the gasoline to see what crap it may have in it. Do 1 carb drain at a time, and empty the gas from your receptacle in-between. You want to inspect what comes-out from each.

As to spark, the bike already ran, yes? You can remove one spark plug boot, install a spare spark plug to it, and ground it out to bare metal, with insulated pliers as the starter button is engaged. You should bet a fat blue spark, a weak yellow spark, and that indicates an issue, likely a poorly-charged battery.

There is a brass crimp inside the wire harness, you can solder that to get better conductivity of the charging system, it costs literally-nothing, and you can often gain more-than 1+ volt in the system when you do this. You remove the insulation (see attachment) do the soldering (a 25 watt iron may not be sufficient) and re-insulate things well.

Well, that's a start.

Cleaning the carburetors requires removal from the bike, partial disassembly, at least into two pairs of carbs, and float bowl removal and then jet block removal, the removing the two small brass jets in each jet block, ensuring they are not plugged-up, carb cleaner into passages, and compressed air, at a minimum. There are on-the-bike attempts you can try (search 'peashooter,' search 'shotgun') but I don't bother with them if I suspect an obstructed carburetor circuit, off they come and apart, and into an ultrasonic bath. The pilot jet seems to be the bane of VMaxes left-sitting with gas in the float bowls, it's a terribly-small passage, any crap and it can plug-solid, resulting in a poor idle. The only effective way to solve an obstructed pilot jet is to remove the carbs, split them into two-pairs of carbs, and then open the float bowl, and remove the jet block, to remove the tiny brass jets inside (carburetor diagram: #15 pilot jet; #17 main bleed pipe), hiding behind those black rubber plugs, and yes, you need those plugs in-place and intact. I've bought used bikes where some well-intentioned idiot neglected to tighten the jets, they screw-in/out, it doesn't require much torque. Then the rubber plugs need to be replaced upon assembly, you cannot neglect to re-install them! On one used bike, besides missing carburetor jet block rubber plugs/caps, on one of the jet block rubber plugs, when I removed it, the jet fell-out, it wasn't even screwed-in! No-wonder it 'ran like crap!' That lack of mechanical aptitude just drove-down the price. Gee, thanks, fellah! Fortunately he left hands-off the heavy reciprocating parts of the engine.

A word about the pilot jet, that's the one with a single strand of stainless steel wire through the hole (attachment). If you don't have the exact size of slotted screwdriver to fit the jet block hole, and the slot in the pilot jet or the other carburetor jets, buy ones which do fit, well. You do-not want to bugger-up the slot to remove the jets each has for installation/removal. In the event that you do break-off one side of the brass slot, you can probably use a reverse-thread drill bit (left-hand twist) to remove the jet safely. However like COVID, it's better to take precautionary steps to avoid it in the first place.

Service manual:
vmoa.net/VMX12-Service-Manual01.pdf

Parts:
PartNumbers.pdf (vmoa.net)View attachment 75697View attachment 75698View attachment 75699View attachment 75700View attachment 75701View attachment 75702View attachment 75703View attachment 75704

Medic, you are just one heck of a nice guy, really mean it.

 

[MadMaxMan]

Fire-medic,
I am a plastic injection mold maker by trade and we use a sonic tank cleaner to clean tools. We can NOT put aluminum in it as it "EATS" it. It is probably because of the liquid we use as if you get it on you it burns through your skin. I just wanted to make mention incase something like that was available and they did not realize the consequence. I assume the Harbor Freight cleaner at home would be fine but can you tell us what you use for the liquid? Also can you be a little more specific on where the brass crimp is located that needs to be soldered? Thank you so much.
Love the forum and the few guys that help us all out as you seem to do this as a living or on the side. Very helpful to us garage mechanics.

 

[schudaddie]

I am a plastic injection mold maker by trade and we use a small sonic tank cleaner to clean tools also. I mix 1 cup of regular simple green to 5 gals. of distilled water. but in doing research on this I found out this is not recommended on aluminum. they do have an aircraft version that is supposed to be ok for aluminum. regular simple green seems ok on tool steels we use. ( s-7, d-2, etc)
https://simplegreen.com/industrial/...g fast, effective and high precision cleaning.
further reading here....
https://ultrasonic-cleaners.org/simple-green.htmluse at your own risk and do some testing on something that is similar and you can sacrifice.
later, bill

 

[Fire-medic]

Fire-medic,
I am a plastic injection mold maker by trade and we use a sonic tank cleaner to clean tools. We can NOT put aluminum in it as it "EATS" it. It is probably because of the liquid we use as if you get it on you it burns through your skin. I just wanted to make mention incase something like that was available and they did not realize the consequence. I assume the Harbor Freight cleaner at home would be fine but can you tell us what you use for the liquid? Also can you be a little more specific on where the brass crimp is located that needs to be soldered? Thank you so much.
Love the forum and the few guys that help us all out as you seem to do this as a living or on the side. Very helpful to us garage mechanics.

I see you're from Palmyra, is that Hill Cumorah territory? There is more-than 1 Palmyra community, I suspect but I'm betting you're by Lake Ontario. You're familiar with LCR in Rochester? Larry used to work for a friend of mine, before he opened his own shop. Even though it's a long-ways from south Florida, I've been to LCR a couple of times, he is a great resource for the VMax community.

I don't have an US tank, my friend's shop does, and he allows me to use it. As far as I know, he uses water. I think the Simple Green-Aluminum issue has been raised before. it's always good to remind people of possible issues.

I've seen Dawn detergent used for soaking carb bodies, and it does a great job, not-sure about the concentration.

schudaddie, a friend of mine who is a chemist, worked in SW MI at a plastic injection molding business. When he saw what they were doing with the PCB's, he quit. He retired from one of the largest pharmacology companies in the world, that is very-much in the news these days. Same location, SW MI.

I believe that I had seen that article before, but I read it again, a worthwhile post, thanks for reminding us about formulation differences in Simple Green, and possible issues if you choose the wrong-one.

ouchez, I recall when I was trying to keep my H1 going in the early 1970's, people were kind to me at different points. I try to assist when I can, I'm only a hobbyist, not a tradesman in motorcycle repairs. Sometimes, I've walked-away from situations because sometimes you have-to learn it "the hard-way." I enjoy seeing members post-up, "hey I fixed it thanks!" and it's usually because a lot of us offer assistance. There are things to-learn, for all of us, like the National Enquirer said, "inquiring minds want to-know!"

 

[dannymax]

 

[PATMAX]

From a carb guru guys !

 

[Fire-medic]

Yep, if dannymax is saying, 'it's good-stuff," it's worth using. Follow the directions.

 

[one2dmax]

I am a plastic injection mold maker by trade

You don't say? I have some parts we may be interested in making depending on the material options. Email me at [email protected]

 

[MadMaxMan]

I see you're from Palmyra, is that Hill Cumorah territory? There is more-than 1 Palmyra community, I suspect but I'm betting you're by Lake Ontario. You're familiar with LCR in Rochester? Larry used to work for a friend of mine, before he opened his own shop. Even though it's a long-ways from south Florida, I've been to LCR a couple of times, he is a great resource for the VMax community.

I don't have an US tank, my friend's shop does, and he allows me to use it. As far as I know, he uses water. I think the Simple Green-Aluminum issue has been raised before. it's always good to remind people of possible issues.

I've seen Dawn detergent used for soaking carb bodies, and it does a great job, not-sure about the concentration.

schudaddie, a friend of mine who is a chemist, worked in SW MI at a plastic injection molding business. When he saw what they were doing with the PCB's, he quit. He retired from one of the largest pharmacology companies in the world, that is very-much in the news these days. Same location, SW MI.

I believe that I had seen that article before, but I read it again, a worthwhile post, thanks for reminding us about formulation differences in Simple Green, and possible issues if you choose the wrong-one.

ouchez, I recall when I was trying to keep my H1 going in the early 1970's, people were kind to me at different points. I try to assist when I can, I'm only a hobbyist, not a tradesman in motorcycle repairs. Sometimes, I've walked-away from situations because sometimes you have-to learn it "the hard-way." I enjoy seeing members post-up, "hey I fixed it thanks!" and it's usually because a lot of us offer assistance. There are things to-learn, for all of us, like the National Enquirer said, "inquiring minds want to-know!"

Fire-medic.

From Palmyra I am. About 2 miles from the "HILL" as the crow flies. This year was to be the last pageant but because of "covid" there is not going to be a last one. It is all done. Sad as it was awesome. They did and excellent job.
I am not familiar with LCR in Rochester. I have worked in Rochester but now prefer to go east of Auburn for financial compensation.
As for the sonic tank, it is obvious that I did not see a previous mention of choice of fluids. I understand it is everyone's responsibility to make sure what they are doing is correct for them. I myself would just make sure to include that information so I was not responsible for some poor soul destroying his carbs.
I myself also work on all kinds of stuff and feel what you screw up is one step closer to knowing everything you need to know. But it is costly but not as costly as someone else fixing things.
Thank you for the reply and have a great day.

 

[Fire-medic]

You should visit Larry. He doesn't do the internet, Calling him is how to reach him, or visit the shop. You will be glad you did. He's very talented. See a pic of his shop, below.

Larry Fitzgerald

(585) 458-8185
LCR Performance
560 Avis St
Rochester, NY 14615

If you haven't read this thread yet, it's a good start:
(29) New Vmax Owner FAQs....new members please read! | Yamaha Star V-Max VMAX Motorcycle Discussion Forum (vmaxforum.net)

Using the 'advanced search' function in the upper-right of the screen is a good way to research something you're wondering about for your VMax. Troubleshooting, someone on-here has probably had that issue before you did. See what they did that worked, or didn't work.

 

[cdgawatersports]

Larry is the man in upstate NY if it's Vmax related he's got ya covered !!!!

 

[neck braced]

I had my 97 vmax delivered last weekend. I took it to the petrol station this morning as I noticed it was delivered on fuel reserve tank.
mot ran out of fuel on the way! After filling back up with a fuel can , the bike started but would only tick over. Eventually after a few minutes it cut out. Now won’t start. Stranded in a near by garage.
crap in the carbs from the tank?
having never put a spanner near the bike. Worried I have issues

Ok. So. Before I bought the bike it had a new fuel pump fitted. Cheap Chinese copy!! Which had failed.. now sorted and running sweet.
thank you so much to everyone who helped .