vmaxinID
Well-Known Member
Is there any harm that could arise mechnically from non clutch shifting 2-3, 3-4, 4-5 gears?
AKA: speed shifting
bye for now,
AKA: speed shifting
bye for now,
"speed shifting?"
- Thread starter vmaxinID
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I'd also like to know this.
Plus... anyone just get tired and not use 1st for normal riding? Seems to me with a little more throttle, starting in 2nd works fine.
So I was wondering if this is detrimental, as in speed shifting?
I used to start with 2nd in my standard truck all the time and never had any adverse affects. And shifting without a clutch in the truck was a breeze.
Plus... anyone just get tired and not use 1st for normal riding? Seems to me with a little more throttle, starting in 2nd works fine.
So I was wondering if this is detrimental, as in speed shifting?
I used to start with 2nd in my standard truck all the time and never had any adverse affects. And shifting without a clutch in the truck was a breeze.
MBreinin
Well-Known Member
I don't see what starting in second could do, except possibly wear the clutch faster.
As far as speed shifting goes, I am sure it is not the best for the tranny and it wears the dogs prematurely. With the older V-Max boxes, this could be serious trouble. With that said, I have done it from time to time...just cut the throttle a little, pre-load the shifter and it pops right in.
However, an air-shifter with an ignition interruptor would be best for this.
Mike
As far as speed shifting goes, I am sure it is not the best for the tranny and it wears the dogs prematurely. With the older V-Max boxes, this could be serious trouble. With that said, I have done it from time to time...just cut the throttle a little, pre-load the shifter and it pops right in.
However, an air-shifter with an ignition interruptor would be best for this.
Mike
Speed shifting does put wear on the transmission but it depends on how often you do it and how often you want to get into the trans.
An undercut trans will accept this type of treament better but the stock one will live with it for some time.
Sean
An undercut trans will accept this type of treament better but the stock one will live with it for some time.
Sean
44 magnum
Well-Known Member
I've been shifting that way since I've had mine. It's a '92 and had 8000 miles on it when I bought it. It now has 16K on it.
When/if I get a tranny failure, I'll let everyone know what the gears looked like and at what milage point it happened.
I'll also note that my buddy's V-strom has 25K miles on it. Like me, he uses the clutch from first and in down-shifting. All other shifts are made w/o the clutch.
When/if I get a tranny failure, I'll let everyone know what the gears looked like and at what milage point it happened.
I'll also note that my buddy's V-strom has 25K miles on it. Like me, he uses the clutch from first and in down-shifting. All other shifts are made w/o the clutch.
Tom_Owens
Well-Known Member
Like in cars, as long as the shift is made smoothly, it shouldn't make any difference at all.
In my days in AMA, it was the same. You only used the clutch to start the race with or when you had to pit or come to a stop, and it really didn't add any wear at all.
Where it really hurts is if you don't do it smoothly. Then, it's detrimental.
On my new Max, I always use the clutch though unless I'm really hell bent for leather, which is not very often at all. Reason being, it isn't worth the effort on day to day riding.
My two cents: Always use the clutch. If you hit the strip or an onramp and want to give it some hell, go for it. You're not going to hurt anything at all so long as you do it right.
Regards,
Tom
p.s. As far as starting off in 2nd, I do that too a good bit after the bike is warmed up. I don't use any more clutch than I do starting off in first when it's cold.
In my days in AMA, it was the same. You only used the clutch to start the race with or when you had to pit or come to a stop, and it really didn't add any wear at all.
Where it really hurts is if you don't do it smoothly. Then, it's detrimental.
On my new Max, I always use the clutch though unless I'm really hell bent for leather, which is not very often at all. Reason being, it isn't worth the effort on day to day riding.
My two cents: Always use the clutch. If you hit the strip or an onramp and want to give it some hell, go for it. You're not going to hurt anything at all so long as you do it right.
Regards,
Tom
p.s. As far as starting off in 2nd, I do that too a good bit after the bike is warmed up. I don't use any more clutch than I do starting off in first when it's cold.
Rusty McNeil
Well-Known Member
I've got a question for you drag racers.
Is it best to "speed shift" by:
Blipping the throttle SLIGHTLY, don't touch the clutch.
Leave the throttle alone and just barely fan the clutch.
Which one is quicker?
Which one is harder on stuff?
I suspect that fanning the clutch puts more wear on the clutch plates; and that blipping the throttle w/ no clutch is harder on the dogs maybe?
Rusty
Is it best to "speed shift" by:
Blipping the throttle SLIGHTLY, don't touch the clutch.
Leave the throttle alone and just barely fan the clutch.
Which one is quicker?
Which one is harder on stuff?
I suspect that fanning the clutch puts more wear on the clutch plates; and that blipping the throttle w/ no clutch is harder on the dogs maybe?
Rusty
MBreinin
Well-Known Member
I can shift a good bit faster if I completely ignore the clutch. I don't do it that much on the Max, but it was SOP on the RZ350 when that thing got on the pipe. Quite often I wouldn't even blip the throttle...just balls to the wall and shift as fast as you can.....
Mike
Mike
QuarterHorse
Well-Known Member
I get lazy in town and just float the gears per say with it. While on it hard I do use the clutch on the bike. Cars, well that's different.
Tom_Owens
Well-Known Member
It should be the direct opposite.
If you're on it hard, don't bother with the clutch. You don't really need it. If you're taking it easy, always use the clutch, it's easier on the bike and/or car.
As far as shifting bike vs. car, there is no difference at all in any circumstance.
Regards,
Tom
If you're on it hard, don't bother with the clutch. You don't really need it. If you're taking it easy, always use the clutch, it's easier on the bike and/or car.
As far as shifting bike vs. car, there is no difference at all in any circumstance.
Regards,
Tom
lankeeyankee
Well-Known Member
I have shifted my VMAX clutchless for years 1-2 2-3 3-4 4-5. I have never had any transmission troubles in all engines.
When I drag racing at the track or on the street I never use the clutch after the launch.
I have tried both ways at the track meaning always full throttle and fanning the clutch and clutchless shifts.
I know in the 1/8 mile you will gain a half a tenth to a full tenth .10 - .05 shifting without the clutch.
When I am trying to go the fastest I will keep constant upward pressure on the shifter with my foot when I see the shift light I barely blip the throttle and I am in the next gear.
Also shifting WOT with the clutch isnt good think about it, your at redline on the tach you pull the clutch in taking the load off the engine, what do you think happens to the RPMS? ZZZZZING up higher over the redline!! Also when you release the clutch at that RPM you know your clutch has to be burning up trying to catch up.
If the VMAX was a non sychro trans than it would be a different story.
"If you cant find em grind em"
QuarterHorse
Well-Known Member
Yes there is a difference. This bike has zero rev limiter. Put one on the bike, I shift it different. Clutchless up through the gears is fine either way though. Mine also has back cut gears in the trans.
In a car, I keep it matted, tap the clutch and it's in the next gear. Unless your running a Pro Shifted trans or having a few teeth ground off the dog rings in automotive transmissions, "power shifting" is only going to shorten the life of the trans that much more. I've gone through quite a fe T5's and Tremec's that way, none of which were Pro Shifted. It's ugly inside when they come apart, sometimes ugly outside.
My Dart however is going by way of automatic for other reasons, that will just get the thread off topic.
MBreinin
Well-Known Member
It is alot harder to shift a standard synchromesh car tranny sans clutch than it is to shift a motorcycle tranny sans clutch. Different beasts there. And, yes, I have fragged my fair share of car trannies. M-20s, M-21s, T-5s, etc.
Mike
Mike
QuarterHorse
Well-Known Member
Rusty McNeil
Well-Known Member
My vmax has a rev limiter....And when I say fan the clutch I'm taling about barely perceptible movement, not "pulling it in"
I agree tho that the clutch method would put more wear on the plates of course.....I just wanted to know which method was best for ET
Rusty
I agree tho that the clutch method would put more wear on the plates of course.....I just wanted to know which method was best for ET
Rusty
