Starter clutch still not engaging

[Maxmarine]

Installed new starter clutch torqued to spec.
Starter, idler gears, and fly wheel all in great shape. Starter clutch brand new. All I hear is spinning. Opened up crank case cover, hit the starter button and fly wheel is spinning counterclockwise freely with idler gears and starter. Can the starter be spinning the wrong direction? Causing starter clutch to not engage and turn motor
View attachment FullSizeRender.mov

 

[maleko89]

The starter and starter ring gear are spinning the correct direction. Something is off with the starter clutch.

 

[Maxmarine]

The starter and starter ring gear are spinning the correct direction. Something is off with the starter clutch.

Just installed a new one. I didn’t pay a lot for it. I think $40. Didn’t buy a kit. Everything else looked good. Bought the starter clutch and a gasket from Amazon.
it seems like a few mechanical parts springs, rollers, etc. can a new one be defective?After I assembled it to magneto I put the flywheel together off the bike and the gear only turns one direction as should.
I could only assemble starter clutch to magneto one way the hex screws are inset. So that can’t be backwards.
took starter off and to a local biz I’ve been to plenty of times. He tested said it worked. Read somewhere while trouble shooting armatures can be so worn they will spin backwards at some failure point.

 

[02GF74]

Read somewhere while trouble shooting armatures can be so worn they will spin backwards at some failure point.

Are you saying that the starter motor can be spinning in the opposite direction?

I'm not convinced that is possible. For that to happen, the power to it needs to be wired in reverse. If the battery disconnected and or removed when you did this work, check it is wired correctly.

You may laugh but IIRC somebody did that although in that case the fuse was blowing each time the starter button was pressed.

 

[MaxMidnight]

Can the starter be spinning the wrong direction? Causing starter clutch to not engage and turn motor

Only if the battery is connected arse about face - i.e. you have reversed the polarity.
That said as the motor is correctly turning anticlockwise that isn't the case.

Could you describe exactly what you have replaced or give a link to the part that has been fitted?

 

[Maxmarine]

Only if the battery is connected arse about face - i.e. you have reversed the polarity.
That said as the motor is correctly turning anticlockwise that isn't the case.

Could you describe exactly what you have replaced or give a link to the part that has been fitted?

First of all thanks for responding. I had enough wire in the wire loom that I never disconnected anything attached to the left crank case cover. I use the bungee and neatly dangled it next to the bike. The only thing that we purchased and put on the bike was a new starter clutch and a gasket and the three hex head bolts that hold the starter clutch on. The outside ring to the starter clutch has inset holes for the hex head bolts that attach it to the magneto. I don’t think I could have assembled that wrong it would’ve been impossible. After we got everything assembled and tried to start the bike we only heard spinning. I opened up the crank case and watched everything spin as I mentioned earlier, and the action(spinning) wasn’t going in a direction that would make the rollers do their job and turn motor over. Which is where I started wondering if starter was turning wrong direction. I painstakingly removed starter and took it to my usual place and they said it was functioning. (Not sure if they checked direction of rotation) or if that’s even something they would look for anyhow. Brought back my same starter and put it back in the bike and it still only spins like in my video. I just read again in one of the many threads that when the armatures go bad in the starter, even when correctly wired they can somehow turn the opposite direction. That’s where I came up with that idea. I’m about to just go ahead and buy $100 starter to see if that fixes it.

 

[maleko89]

The starter is fine as it's turning the correct way. The ring gear is turning counter clockwise which is correct. Starter power isn't being transmitted from that ring gear, through the starter clutch, to the crank.

 

[Maxmarine]

The starter is fine as it's turning the correct way. The ring gear is turning counter clockwise which is correct. Starter power isn't being transmitted from that ring gear, through the starter clutch, to the crank.

So I think we got what we paid for is what it sounds like.
My son found the starter clutch on Amazon for a fraction of the cost compared to the local shops, partzilla, Motorsport, etc.
(it seemed like a mechanical enough part that i thought we just found a deal from the big name guys.)
I’m a diy guy. I didn’t realize there was current of some sort going though that part. Again, I thought it was mechanical and locked somehow when turning a certain direction like a ratchet to crank motor and then was free spinning while bike was running.
I know there is magneto and windings but obviously don’t really know how that whole starter clutch thing works. It’s not like a starter with a bendex I guess is what I’m saying.
Anyhow got to get to work I’ll check this thread later I really appreciate your help and input

 

[maleko89]

Try taking out the idler gears and then turn the big ring gear by hand. It should turn freely clockwise and lock up counterclockwise.

Mark

 

[MaxMidnight]

So I think we got what we paid for is what it sounds like.
My son found the starter clutch on Amazon for a fraction of the cost compared to the local shops, partzilla, Motorsport, etc.
(it seemed like a mechanical enough part that i thought we just found a deal from the big name guys.)
I’m a diy guy. I didn’t realize there was current of some sort going though that part. Again, I thought it was mechanical and locked somehow when turning a certain direction like a ratchet to crank motor and then was free spinning while bike was running.
I know there is magneto and windings but obviously don’t really know how that whole starter clutch thing works. It’s not like a starter with a bendex I guess is what I’m saying.
Anyhow got to get to work I’ll check this thread later I really appreciate your help and input

There isn't any electrical supply to the starter clutch. The only part being powered is the starter motor which gets a +12 volt feed and earths through the body.

The part in question is a roller bearing one way clutch - this diagram shows the principle of operation. When the starter turns the outer ring (#6) the rollers are forced into the tapered part in #7 which locks the assembly and turns the crankshaft. Once the engine has fires up and the crank is spinning faster that the starter ring the roller come out of the tapered section and the clutch disengages..

If you hold assembly #7 still part #6 should turn freely one way and allow assy 7 to turn the other way.




Assuming that you were supplied with all the parts in ass #7, it passes the test above, #6 is serviceable and is assembled correctly then I can't think why it wouldn't work.
That would, perhaps, leave the possibility that you have the wrong part?

 

[Maxmarine]

Try taking out the idler gears and then turn the big ring gear by hand. It should turn freely clockwise and lock up counterclockwise.

Mark

I’ve been away from this thread for a bit. Friend’s wedding.
Anyhow, I did exactly as you suggested, and find that my ring gear is spinning freely in the counter-clockwise direction and locks up going clockwise. This is where I’ve been confused.
earlier in this thread, I understood this to be the opposite. I thought I read in an earlier post that it was to freely spin cc-wise. Anyhow, my ring gear spins freely counter clockwise, and locks up going clockwise.
thanks again for your help.
Is it possible that my torque wrench was off and I’ve over tightened the starter clutch to the backside of the magneto? Maybe it’s binding something up? We just noticed while tightening some other things, that my non-digital torque wrench at lower increments, like 17ft lbs, is not accurate. I hope I haven’t over tightened those three little hex head bolts screws that hold starter clutch on. We’ll see...

 

[Maxmarine]

So.....I disassembled the new starter clutch from the flywheel.
Compared it to the cracked one I just replaced. After closer inspection and attention to detail, the rollers, spring caps and springs, are all backwards. It’s probably very close to design and spec but literally the orifice that holds spring and spring caps is opposite when I compare them side by side. Making the starter clutch rollers lock up in the opposite direction!
lesson learned with cheap knockoff parts. It’s identical but the devil is in the details!
Got another starter clutch on the way! Thanks for all the help everyone!

 

[maleko89]

Glad you found it! Reminds me of Space Balls and the Presidents ass on backwards.

 

[02GF74]

So to conclude, the starter clutch you purchased wS incorrect part. Obviously the diagram posted above is particularly detailed but the part looks to be symmetrical so no chance that it was fitted the wrong way round?

 

[one2dmax]

Looks like machined backwards. Here's the pic

 

[putin]

Looks like machined backwards. Here's the pic
View attachment 85790

Chineeze joke? Or they still fighting capitalism pigs?