Tank-slapper at 40 mph

[coffee_brake]

The bearings are on their way now, I will have to see if the dust seal is in there...I think it will be, because the both sets of neck bearings I got from this company for the Harley and the old Kawasaki had dust seals in the set.

I already had diamond bits for the Dremmel so I picked up a set of punches that we needed anyway. Top race popped right out and bottom is almost cut through, it's just going to take a while to finish the other cut. It's hard to see if I've already cut through it.

The bearings are obviously bad, but they aren't scary terrible. They're full of greasy rust and the races show galling all around--it was time. I hope to have all the old parts off by the time the new ones show up on Tuesday.

 

[naughtyG]

Well done! You're on your way to a much sweeter handling Max ;-)

Don't expect crotch rocket handling tho - that it'll never do unless you spend $$$$$

But at least it won't wobble in a straight line anymore!

 

[shawn kloker]

It would be wise to pull it down enough to look at the bearings and races.If the races are stop signed they need replaced.You could also reack the bearings if the races look good.

I like to tighten mine up till it starts the low speed weave then loosen it up just till it quits.Rock solid at high speed.

 

[coffee_brake]

Just to be clear--you folks are tightening and loosening the bottom castle nut...right? You're not talking about the uppermost chromed nut on top.

 

[maleko89]

Correct although both need to be set correctly. Set bottom castellated nut and then top castellated to match. Torque the head nut on top of triple tree to 80 ft/lbs or so.

 

[naughtyG]

Yes the bottom castle nut has the all-important torque setting that keeps the bearings happy. The top one should simply be finger-tight enough on top of the rubber washer to align its grooves with the bottom one so that the alignment washer fits in those grooves.

The torque setting of the top tripletree nut is also very important - it gives the whole steering head its stiffness.

If you're still undecided about the Furbur washer vs the rubber washer check this out:
http://www.vmaxforum.net/showthread.php?t=5557&highlight=furbur

 

[coffee_brake]

OK great, thanks. Although my rubber washer is egg-shaped, I think it is still serviceable.

I got the bottom race out and I think I found a simple tool that may help the next person who doesn't have a welder. I'll post pics when I can use the faster work computer.
This is a $5 race puller from Harbor Freight, but anyone with a bit of extra steel and a good hacksaw could construct the tool. It's a long shaft with a sideways "tooth" to grab a race and a place on the other end to hit it with a hammer to pull the race out. No, it can't grab that bottom race on the Vmax because there's nothing to grab. BUT, with the dremmel, I made a cut into the race that the tooth on the puller could fit into. Didn't take nearly so long as cutting through the entire race. Then I got an old-fashioned crowbar and held that tooth hard into the hole I made for it while the hubby popped the puller with a drift pin and hammer from the top of the neck. I made two holes for the tooth to fit in on opposite sides and it didn't take long at all, working it back and forth, before the race came on out. Lots less work and lots less chance of messing up the neck.

Again, I'll post some pics because this was really simple, the tool was inexpensive, and it saved a lot of time and worry. You just need an assistant with enough sense to carefully line up the drift pin onto the race puller and use moderate force with a hammer.

The bottom bearing was very easy to remove, oddly enough. I've cleaned everything and I'm ready to get my new bearings from the shop tomorrow and hopefully get them installed after work.


Great help, I'd still be lost without it.....

 

[naughtyG]

Just to let you know, the service manual calls for a torque of only 5Nm on the lower castle nut.

I used about 8Nm when I did my bearings, but they still felt a little loose: high speed stability was fine, but at low speeds (under 40) if I let go of the bars it would start wobbling away.

So today I tightened it again - this time I used a torque of 15Nm, and now my bars fall on the stops nice and smooth with only the tiniest of bounce.

I think it's right now - I'll let you know after I've ridden it some more!

 

[broook]

How much weld do I have to put on the bottom race???? Do I run a fast or slow [hot] bead around the race. 6011 or 7018 or does it matter??
This is one of my jobs for the winter and hope to do it next week if the bearings come in.
I am also trying to get rid of the dreaded tank slapper.

 

[shawn kloker]

Any weld will heat it up enough to drop it out.

Do not weld the race in accidently!

I also recommend blue loctiting the top chrome nut. I marked mine with a sharpie and watched as it came loose a couple times. Not anymore, rock solid steering at any speed!

 

[naughtyG]

I marked mine with a sharpie and watched as it came loose a couple times.

How is this possible - this nut's supposed to be torqued to 110Nm according to the service manual! :ummm::ummm:

 

[shawn kloker]

I tightened mine to 3 grunts with a 16" cresent wrench. Personally I only use a torque wrench on heads! I've been wrenching all my life.

 

[broook]

Any weld will heat it up enough to drop it out.

!

OK Thanks Shawn.

 

[coffee_brake]

Great success!

I think, anyway. Finally got the bearings delivered yesterday and put them in this afternoon. It took no less than 6 test rides around the block to figure out just how much to tighten the castle nuts. The speeds where the wobble started kept changing but it finally went away after the 5th adjustment. Ya'll were right, I don't have a socket for them so I couldn't measure the torque, but it was way more than the manual said.

I haven't put the bike past 55 mph yet (dark, weekend, crazed holiday shoppers and overzealous enforcement) but I'll try that tomorrow.

Thanks again for all the help, I had to come back and read it all again during the install. Boy am I glad that's done!

 

[Elimax]

More front end issues...

Hi folks:
So, I installed a beautiful 1994 YZF750 USD fork setup to my Max, using an excellent triple tree I had made by Tom at Cycle One-Off. I used brand-new bearings, bearing races, and R1 Blue Spot calipers.
Here?s the issue: I did the Sayegh?s mod to the tree?s installation; however, this bike has NO sort of fork brace, either stock or custom, and after installation, when riding, the bike has SLOW yet deliberate S-curves when I ride, like I am doing a deliberate slalom.
What I?d like to know is, is this an axle alignment issue, or is it a matter of adjusting the triple trees torque in any way?
I know how to adjust triple tree torques, but what?s the best way to ensure perfect axle alignment?
Thank you!
Elimax

 

[one2dmax]

Re: More front end issues...

Sounds like the bearings are set just a little too tight so they won't self center. The axle could be bent at a 45 degree angle and the most it would do is make your handlebars off by 45 degrees when you ride.

Sean

 

[Elimax]

Thanks, Sean. I'll fix 'em asap.

Elimax (Aaron)

 

[KJShover]

Re: More front end issues...

Sounds like the bearings are set just a little too tight so they won't self center. The axle could be bent at a 45 degree angle and the most it would do is make your handlebars off by 45 degrees when you ride.

Sean

+1 on that, When I was chasing a wobble I snugged the bearings until the bike woulnd't self correct (weaving) then I slowly backed it off until all was well in the world. :biglaugh:

 

[Miles Long]

The pros and cons regarding the "Furbur Fix" are endless, but my own experiences with bad handling and the resulting modifications are as follows;
My '03 max had both low and high speed wobbling issues from the get-go. My first mod was an external frame affair, made of 1inch square stock, which basically sistered up to the existing frame, and is connected together in front of the rear tire by a bar. This, together with a wrap-around custom fork brace, cured the high-speed issue. Progressive springs followed the next year(which in retrospect I would recommend as a first upgrade), which eliminated that "spongy" feel of the stock front end. But the bike still had an annoying wobble at low speeds, from about 30 to 50 kph. A "tank slapper", in the spring of '08, scared the feces out of me, so I did the Furbur thing, after checking the condition of the steering head bearings, which were in excellent shape. THIS TOTALLY CURED THE LOW-SPEED WOBBLE, and 25,000 k. later, the bike is still rock solid at all speeds.
To answer your specific questions re washer material and torque, I made my washer out of stainless steel, to the approximate dimensions recommended. And I would agree that OEM torque spec may be on the light side. I tightened the first castle nut(using a box end wrench) until there was a slight resistance to movement, with the wheel off. With the wheel on, everything is free, but there is absolutely no "bounce" effect. I just finished checking and repacking the bearings, and this extra torque obvously has not been detrimental- the bearings are still pristine, with 56,000 k. now on the bike. In order to maintain the original tightness, when reassembling, I intially match-marked the two nuts to the frame neck, and counted the revolutions of eah nut as well.
Just my "two cents" worth! Cheers, Miles

 

[one2dmax]

What cured your low speed problem was the correct tension on the jam nuts when you put it all back together. The furbur washer had nothing to do with that.

Sean