Turns over but will not run

[arabian2]

Hey guys I have an issue.

No issues with this bike beforehand. But after I got home and the bike set for a few weeks. Battery placed on a battery tender. I placed the switch to run. Had to put the choke to max level and hold down the start button until it finally turns over, it fires but immediately stops. I put in a new battery but that is about it. I don't have the tools to check anything electrical (or really know how). Are there a few things I look at? I can hear the v-boost cycle thru and the sound of carb bowls being filled (ticks until it stops). The bike is an 02 and the first time I had issues with this particular bike. Thanks in Advance.

 

[DirtieGirtie]

Can you define what you mean by, "Had to put the choke to max level and hold down the start button until it finally turns over, it fires but immediately stops."

TURNS OVER: The starter motor spins the engine, but it is not attempting to fire.

So was the engine turning over (meaning you could hear the starter motor turning the engine over) but it wasn't firing? Or the engine was not turning over (meaning the starter motor was not spinning or engaging)?

Depending on your answer, it could be as simple as the on/off switch needs cleaned, unless you here the v-boost and fuel pump as soon as you turn it to on. Next would be the starter itself and relay - but that wouldn't explain the engine shutting down right away.

Anyways, I'll wait to hear a little more background before I do any more "internet diagnostics".

 

[arabian2]

I have to place the choke in the full down position (pressed it down) and had to hold the start button until it actually rolled the engine over, it would engage but immediately fall to a stop (So yeah the starter would engage and the engine would run for a 1/2 second)..... You can call me and I can show you. 305 322-6802

 

[one2dmax]

Ticks until it stops. Does this mean when you turn the key off and on the pump doesn't tick anymore? It should fill the bowls and then not tick again since the bowls are full. If it keeps clicking with each key cycle then it may not be filling or priming the system properly.

 

[DirtieGirtie]

A2 - If I read you right, you are pressing and holding the starter button. After the button is pressed for half a second the engine s-l-o-w-l-y rolls over for a split second... until the next compression cycle is preventing the engine from turning over again.

As far as I know there is no decompression system in these bikes like a big V-Twin. That means your problem is most likely electrical.

Did it act the exact same way before and after you put the new battery in? Or was the old battery definitly dead and wouldn't turn the engine at all and you put a new (unknown condition) battery in and and now see this slow roll?

My first guess is your starter is getting insufficient power to turn the engine quickly. I would charge the new battery for several days on a trickle charger. Then test the voltage of the battery before trying to start.

If the battery is definitly good then I would look at measuring the voltage and amperage going to the starter motor when you try to start her. You will have to dig through the manual to see what readings you should be getting, or someone here will chime in.

One thing is for sure, your choke has nothing to do with the starter motor turning s-l-o-w-l-y.

 

[christopher509]

Hello , if it will start but not run maybe check the fuel tank level and filter for blockage. Check the fuel pump is actually pumping fuel by removing the hose from the pump outlet and fit a pipe to a can then turn on the ignition to see how much fuel it shifts.
A quick test for the starter motor would be to connect direct to a battery , negative to the frame them touch the positive to the cable terminal on the starter , if good it should spin over quickly .
Hope this helps.
Regards Chris.

 

[arabian2]

Ticks until it stops. Does this mean when you turn the key off and on the pump doesn't tick anymore? It should fill the bowls and then not tick again since the bowls are full. If it keeps clicking with each key cycle then it may not be filling or priming the system properly.

No it does not tick anymore. I do believe the carbs are full and that the full pump is working.

 

[arabian2]

A2 - If I read you right, you are pressing and holding the starter button. After the button is pressed for half a second the engine s-l-o-w-l-y rolls over for a split second... until the next compression cycle is preventing the engine from turning over again.

As far as I know there is no decompression system in these bikes like a big V-Twin. That means your problem is most likely electrical.

Did it act the exact same way before and after you put the new battery in? Or was the old battery definitly dead and wouldn't turn the engine at all and you put a new (unknown condition) battery in and and now see this slow roll?

My first guess is your starter is getting insufficient power to turn the engine quickly. I would charge the new battery for several days on a trickle charger. Then test the voltage of the battery before trying to start.

If the battery is definitly good then I would look at measuring the voltage and amperage going to the starter motor when you try to start her. You will have to dig through the manual to see what readings you should be getting, or someone here will chime in.

One thing is for sure, your choke has nothing to do with the starter motor turning s-l-o-w-l-y.

Yes you read that correctly except for the part where I hold the start button down until it finally ( 6-8 seconds) rolls the engine over).... The old battery was dead-dead. I fully charged the new battery. for a few days before installing.

 

[DirtieGirtie]

You do not have a fuel problem. Or, at the least, you won't know if you do/do not have a fuel problem until you can get the starter to try to rotate the engine.

Again, if you are pressing the start button for 6-8 seconds before the starter can finally turn the engine (by overcoming the compression cycle) then that has nothing to do with fueling.

Step 1: Verify the connections to the battery are clean and tight. A loose or dirty connection results in intermittent and weak (low amperage) power. If you see any white/green/blue powder on the terminals then you need to clean them. Remove from the battery and clean with a wire brush or sandpaper.

Step 2: Follow those two (one positive, one negative) big wires coming off your battery. Make sure the other end is good and tight. The ground (negative) connection to the frame is another typical loose/rusty connection that must be clean and tight.

Step 3: Find the two big wires on the starter motor - make sure connections are clean and tight. Follow those big wires off the starter and verify the other ends are clean.

Report back. And if you could include a couple of pics of the battery terminal area, the starter switch, and the kill switch (just so we can see the condition) it would help.

 

[DirtieGirtie]

Note: You might want to pull the battery and have it load tested. Even if it's new, it's still a very likely cause of all of this.

 

[arabian2]

You do not have a fuel problem. Or, at the least, you won't know if you do/do not have a fuel problem until you can get the starter to try to rotate the engine.

Again, if you are pressing the start button for 6-8 seconds before the starter can finally turn the engine (by overcoming the compression cycle) then that has nothing to do with fueling.

Step 1: Verify the connections to the battery are clean and tight. A loose or dirty connection results in intermittent and weak (low amperage) power. If you see any white/green/blue powder on the terminals then you need to clean them. Remove from the battery and clean with a wire brush or sandpaper.

Step 2: Follow those two (one positive, one negative) big wires coming off your battery. Make sure the other end is good and tight. The ground (negative) connection to the frame is another typical loose/rusty connection that must be clean and tight.

Step 3: Find the two big wires on the starter motor - make sure connections are clean and tight. Follow those big wires off the starter and verify the other ends are clean.

Report back. And if you could include a couple of pics of the battery terminal area, the starter switch, and the kill switch (just so we can see the condition) it would help.

Will do, but won't happen to Saturday am. Thanks in Advance.

 

[Fire-medic]

I think you should pull spark plugs and make sure you aren't hydro-locking. Remove all four plugs and (do the test OUTSIDE! and with a fire extinguisher nearby) hit the starter button. If you get a geyser of fuel erupting from one or more sparkplug holes, immediately STOP cranking. You want to do this with the spark plugs grounded-out. Make a set of alligator clips on both ends, one w/big clips, to go on the spark plug threads, and the other end can be smaller, to clip somewhere on the engine or frame. Why do this? Because CDI systems need to deliver their energy. Bad things happen to ignitions when the high-voltage isn't delivered to the sparkplugs. Don't find-out, the hard way.

 

[rreed]

Hey guys I have an issue.

No issues with this bike beforehand. But after I got home and the bike set for a few weeks. Battery placed on a battery tender. I placed the switch to run. Had to put the choke to max level and hold down the start button until it finally turns over, it fires but immediately stops. I put in a new battery but that is about it. I don't have the tools to check anything electrical (or really know how). Are there a few things I look at? I can hear the v-boost cycle thru and the sound of carb bowls being filled (ticks until it stops). The bike is an 02 and the first time I had issues with this particular bike. Thanks in Advance.

Has the starter been upgraded. the Gen-1 came with a two-brush starter, there is now available a 4-brush started. On my 86 the first sign that the original starter was going out was when the bike was hot. stop for gas and then when restarting the bike, the starter would work but very slowly and seemed like the bike was not going to start, but it always did. after some conversations here on our forum it was pointed out to me about the starter upgrade. After I replaced it issue solved. just a thought!

 

[MaxMidnight]

A fair point about hot start problems but his won't start from cold.

 

[rreed]

A fair point about hot start problems but his won't start from cold.

this is what happens with the old 2-brush starter, at the end of its life it fails, first sign its going out is the hot start issue!

 

[MaxMidnight]

this is what happens with the old 2-brush starter, at the end of its life it fails, first sign its going out is the hot start issue!

Over the many years I have had and read about Maxii the hot start issues with the two brush motor (which can be overcome or at least mitigated) is not uncommon but never as a sign of it giving up the ghost.
Brushes can be replaced and in many cases commutators refurbished. Damage to the windings could be problematical but that is an extremely rare occurrence and wouldn't just affect two brush motors.

 

[arabian2]

Has the starter been upgraded. the Gen-1 came with a two-brush starter, there is now available a 4-brush started. On my 86 the first sign that the original starter was going out was when the bike was hot. stop for gas and then when restarting the bike, the starter would work but very slowly and seemed like the bike was not going to start, but it always did. after some conversations here on our forum it was pointed out to me about the starter upgrade. After I replaced it issue solved. just a thought!

Its a 03 so it has the 4 brush starter

 

[arabian2]

Still nothing. I thought it might have been the kill switch that was installed by the previous owner, but I ruled that out. I've attached a sound bite. You can hear it start up but just does not stay on.

Is anyone here in the Orlando area? Before I take it to a shop.

 

[arabian2]

Note: You might want to pull the battery and have it load tested. Even if it's new, it's still a very likely cause of all of this.

Had it inspected and is good and strong. again the bike starts but it revs immediately to like 4 k and shuts down. all in like 2 seconds.

 

[Gccarver]

Its a 03 so it has the 4 brush starter

Does it have a working fuel pump? And how does the fuel filter look