Turns over but will not run

[rreed]

Hi, well it's good that it's the starter. From that it seems like and air fuel mixture issue. first things I would do, and I am in Port Orange by the way.
Pull the cover off the air filter and check to make sure it is clean and in good working order. Also, make sure it has the filter sealer on it to ensure it is not pulling in too much air. also look at the filter and make sure it does not look like it is being sucked in.
2 pull the fuel line off the output side of the fuel filter and put a small piece of hose on the filter and turn the bike over for a minute or so and make sure you have steady output of fuel. if you feel it is not steady do the same with the other side of the fuel line at the filter. if the flow looks the same then it's time to look at replacing the fuel pump. Also, when your turn the key to the on position does the fuel pump click at all?

 

[tvmax]

It is not your battery or your starter. Check voltage to the coils. See what it is when you press the starter button. Watch and see if it still has voltage after the starter button is released. You say you have to put the choke on full for it to start like this? Open a float bowl drain screw and see that you have fuel in the bowls for sure. If you have fuel and you have voltage to the coils with ignition on I would look at carbs gummed up. The way it sounds it sounds like power is not going to the coils except when the starter is pressed.

 

[arabian2]

Does it have a working fuel pump? And how does the fuel filter look

Yes, fuel pump works. The filter does not look bad but will still change it out tomorrow.

 

[DirtieGirtie]

I think we had a miscommunication on describing the issue. After seeing/hearing that video clip the battery and starter seem to be turning the engine over as soon as you hit the start button and without hesitation.

I will give you my experience. I bought a non-running '02 VMAX over the summer. It would run on choke but only with the revs up over 4k. Any attempt to lower the choke and it would stall out. But it would run at 4K, although very lean (just based on the smell of the exhaust) so I wouldn't dare run it like that.

What I found:
Looking into the gas tank it looked to have a small amount of surface rust. It didn't look like much - I've seen bikes run with much worse rusty tanks - but I went ahead and bought a brand new tank. When I took the old tank out and drained it I found the last ounce to be rusty mud.

I replaced the fuel filter. When I disconnected the inlet line I had rusty sludge come back out of the filter.

I removed and cleaned the carbs. I found all of the floats set very lean. But more importantly, I found two of four PAJ2's blocked up so that nothing was going to be passing through it. I have no doubt the passages in the carb and jet block were gunk'ed up as well.

Once I put it back together she starts right up on choke. I can turn the choke off within 15 seconds in 40F temps and she will still idle. If I run her for another minute or two till she's warm then there is no hesitation in the throttle response.

Take a look in your tank and report back any rust you find. Although even with a crystal clean tank, your carbs may be gummed up. Right now it's a 50/50 shot of a fuel or an ignition problem (as TVMax stated above).

 

[arabian2]

I plan to change out the fuel filter tomorrow and open up the Airbox and look into what I can see is happening with the carbs.

 

[arabian2]

I found the problem. It's the fuel pump. It is working intermittently. So time to get a replacement. I have an aftermarket and was looking at an article about how to do the swap, but can't find part 2. So just in case I can't get it done. Does anyone have one, and could you pm me the cost? Thanks.

 

[CaptainKyle]

I found the problem. It's the fuel pump. It is working intermittently. So time to get a replacement. I have an aftermarket and was looking at an article about how to do the swap, but can't find part 2. So just in case I can't get it done. Does anyone have one, and could you pm me the cost? Thanks.

I have one $ 80 plus shipping and PayPal fees

 

[arabian2]

Okay after $400 and about 3 months, I still have not found out the issue with my bike cutting off as soon as it cranks over. Starting to worry and get annoyed. Could it be the stator? I'm out of my novice understandings now... Again it turns over but immediately turns off. Like the starter does what it needs to do to get the engine spinning but whatever is supposed to keep it running is just not happening. I will pay someone a 12-pack of beer if they can figure this thing out.

 

[MaxMidnight]

You still don't know if it is a fuel or an electrical issue.
Once the pump has primed and stopped turn the ignition off and drain the contents of the float bowls into a container to check there is fuel in there.
If there is then see what happens if you open the throttle immediately it starts. If it will take some revs then I would be looking at a carb issue although even with plugged idle circuit I'd expect it to run on choke.
Have tried the check suggested by Mr Tvmax in post #22 to see if power is maintained to the coil?

 

[02GF74]

I would suggest following MaxMidnight advice. Also try opening the throttle when cranking over.

The pump runs until the carbs are full - you can hear it clicking - and then stops. The engine will idle for 2-3 minutes on the fuel in the carbs without the fuel pump running - I know this as fact I have a cut off switch for the pump.

In your video, the engine starts up fine - so battery, starter motor and starter switch are all good - and when it starts running, that sounds good too. In my case, when the jets are blocked, it would spit and run roughly and needed the throttle opening.

It is strange that is stops so quickly that would kind of point to an ignition issue.

 

[Incider]

Just had an xl600 through the workshop with similar issues. Will start on button and run til you let it go. Turns out the ecu was fried and not letting coils get power unless starter was turning

 

[MaxMidnight]

To check and rule out the fuel pump as the problem there is a diagnostic flow chart in the Service Manual p. 7-54 to 56.

 

[arabian2]

You still don't know if it is a fuel or an electrical issue.
Once the pump has primed and stopped turn the ignition off and drain the contents of the float bowls into a container to check there is fuel in there.
If there is then see what happens if you open the throttle immediately it starts. If it will take some revs then I would be looking at a carb issue although even with plugged idle circuit I'd expect it to run on choke.
Have tried the check suggested by Mr Tvmax in post #22 to see if power is maintained to the coil?

The fuel pump works and the carbs get primed. the float bowls are getting filled. I did hold the throttle open but it just dies, so no to revving it. I've done this both choked and non-choked.

 

[arabian2]

To check and rule out the fuel pump as the problem there is a diagnostic flow chart in the Service Manual p. 7-54 to 56.

3rd Fuel pump and it does the same thing. I purchased a new factory Yamaha fuel pump just to rule out the 2nd one. Let me look at the manual to see if there is something else I can try (again limited skill set and tools).

 

[arabian2]

Just had an xl600 through the workshop with similar issues. Will start on button and run til you let it go. Turns out the ecu was fried and not letting coils get power unless starter was turning

Interesting.

 

[Fire-medic]

Wasn't there something about the sidestand switch sticking? In another thread. The starter turns-over and the power to the headlight momentarily is turned-off, to aid cranking, so more voltage/amps goes to the starter. See if the headlight comes back-on when the starter stops. Shoot some penetrating oil on the sidestand switch shaft, make sure that it isn't sticking.

If you have the sidestand down, and start the engine, if you don't raise the sidestand and put the bike in gear, the sidestand switch kills the engine. The 'in/ retracted, to be a short length' position for the switch shaft is the 'shuts-off the engine' position. The 'out/fully-extended sidestand switch shaft' is how the switch is when the sidestand is up/retracted, the 'ready to ride' position. Don't confuse the switch 'retracted' position with the sidestand is retracted position.

Nothing to do with arabian2's issue, but a sticky starter switch can keep the headlight from coming-on once the engine starts and the starter stops turning-over. If the starter button spring isn't broken, it's usually due to some oxidation or debris causing it to stick. Search member ninjaneer's threads about overhauling the ignition switch, and the left and right control pods (search by his name, or 'pod.')

 

[MaxMidnight]

The fuel pump works and the carbs get primed. the float bowls are getting filled. I did hold the throttle open but it just dies, so no to revving it. I've done this both choked and non-choked.

IMO from what you are telling us it is unlikely to be fuel related. You have fuel in the float bowls so unless both choke and idle circuit are completely Donald Ducked (unlikely) or you have done something you haven't mentioned I'd expect the motor to run.
Given that it starts and stops suddenly (rather than peters out) I would be looking at an electrical issue.
HAVE YOU CHECKED POWER TO THE COILS???? (Sorry for shouting but this has been suggested before and you still haven't answered)

 

[arabian2]

Wasn't there something about the sidestand switch sticking? In another thread. The starter turns-over and the power to the headlight momentarily is turned-off, to aid cranking, so more voltage/amps goes to the starter. See if the headlight comes back-on when the starter stops. Shoot some penetrating oil on the sidestand switch shaft, make sure that it isn't sticking.

If you have the sidestand down, and start the engine, if you don't raise the sidestand and put the bike in gear, the sidestand switch kills the engine. The 'in/ retracted, to be a short length' position for the switch shaft is the 'shuts-off the engine' position. The 'out/fully-extended sidestand switch shaft' is how the switch is when the sidestand is up/retracted, the 'ready to ride' position. Don't confuse the switch 'retracted' position with the sidestand is retracted position.

Nothing to do with arabian2's issue, but a sticky starter switch can keep the headlight from coming-on once the engine starts and the starter stops turning-over. If the starter button spring isn't broken, it's usually due to some oxidation or debris causing it to stick. Search member ninjaneer's threads about overhauling the ignition switch, and the left and right control pods (search by his name, or 'pod.')

Okay sprayed the kickstand shaft. held in the clutch put the kickstand up and still the same..... It starts up (revs up to 3k and immediately goes back down to zero). I usually start with it in neutral and the kickstand down.

IMO from what you are telling us it is unlikely to be fuel related. You have fuel in the float bowls so unless both choke and idle circuit are completely Donald Ducked (unlikely) or you have done something you haven't mentioned I'd expect the motor to run.
Given that it starts and stops suddenly (rather than peters out) I would be looking at an electrical issue.
HAVE YOU CHECKED POWER TO THE COILS???? (Sorry for shouting but this has been suggested before and you still haven't answered)

I will check that next. I don't have any testers, so I will have to ask my neighbor or buy (will take time) a Amp meter.

 

[Jerry Klay]

I'm thinking something electrical/Ignition related problem also.

 

[MaxMidnight]

I will check that next. I don't have any testers, so I will have to ask my neighbor or buy (will take time) a Amp meter.

You need a multimeter that can read volts and ohms, measuring amperage would not be of much use to you.