V-Max Speed Wobble (ran it up to 115mph and...)

[Shuriken]

The first time I checked the steering on my 2007 Vmax it was far too loose with the forks bouncing off the stops when I jacked up the front end. After I had tightened them I found that it had got rid of the fast shaking at 85Mph but I'm still stuck with the frame wobble at around 90Mph even though I have fitted frame braces, though I can get to about 110Mph if I'm careful. If I hit a bump the whole thing goes into oscillation. The riding season is over now here in UK so I will try again in 6 months.

As much as I would like to lube or replace the head bearing and race on this 03, I am not going to even touch it right now with a 3 meter pole! The bike feels like an entirely different system when you have plenty of revs and stability to cross over the ton and don't have to worry about the wobble. 0-100 is nothing for this v4 engine, so it sucks having the instability rob 25% of the bike's capability.

I don't need to ride around that fast but the more stable it is at 100, the better it feels crossing lanes and all around at 75.

 

[wayne billings]

A Street bike should be able to do what it was designed to do any time it is ridden. Second guessing what your next move should be is a unnecessary distraction. Just my opinion.

 

[retrosdad]

Exactly. I myself am shocked how my fellow VMax owners (past or present) are so quick to just roll over and decide not to bother Yamaha factory with this decades old high speed wobble problem. Instead, said VMaxers spend lots of their limited money, time and effort trying to solve the VMax high speed wobble. In the meantime, they might be risking their very lives doing high speed riding at public track day or whatever. Folks, hear this. You are not the ones who designed, built or sold for a profit the VMax. My personal opinion is Yamaha rushed the VMax into production in order to compete with other motorcycle companies new models. But Yamaha is responsible for any deadly flaws when the VMax was first introduced and continues as long as there is even one first generation VMax on the road. Do something. Maybe get a petition together and demand Yamaha research and find a fix for the wobble. Or make a group complaint to the US Department of Transportation. But quit so willingly accept Yamaha’s design problem as if you have the responsibility to solve the problem.

 

[MaxMidnight]

A few thoughts:

What percentage of bikes in original condition exhibit this?
How may accidents from minor spills to fatal have there been that can be directly attributed to the issue?
How many reports have national governments road safety departments received regarding this and what was the outcome of their investigations?

Whilst I appreciate how frustrating it is for those who's bike have this condition without data to justify and support any action it isn't going anywhere.
In addition even if an investigation was to be conducted this could only be reasonably be undertaken on original as originally supplied.
To expect the factory to take into consideration all the variables from addition to the bike, standard of maintenance and owner diagnostic skills is, IMO, unrealistic.

However, if someone feels strongly enough to organise a petition and correlate the data which will include all the variations from OE owners have made then I look forward to seeing how this progresses.
Any takers?

 

[Traumahawk]

Early articles that you read about the Vmax, generally gave the bike high marks, even in the braking area. In the later magazines, everyone basically said the Vmax engine over powered the stock chassis and fixes have been on to fix various wobbles, flexes and the like have been developed and tried.

Me personally, I have a racetech set up in the front, fork brace, frame braces, aluminum motor mounts, braced swing arm, 444 rear shocks, and carrozerria wheels with radials.

Sometimes it comes to a matter of perspective. Think of a gen 1 as a general blank canvas that you can create the bike of your dreams with.

 

[retrosdad]

A few thoughts:

What percentage of bikes in original condition exhibit this?
How may accidents from minor spills to fatal have there been that can be directly attributed to the issue?
How many reports have national governments road safety departments received regarding this and what was the outcome of their investigations?

Whilst I appreciate how frustrating it is for those who's bike have this condition without data to justify and support any action it isn't going anywhere.
In addition even if an investigation was to be conducted this could only be reasonably be undertaken on original as originally supplied.
To expect the factory to take into consideration all the variables from addition to the bike, standard of maintenance and owner diagnostic skills is, IMO, unrealistic.

However, if someone feels strongly enough to organise a petition and correlate the data which will include all the variations from OE owners have made then I look forward to seeing how this progresses.
Any takers?

You ask some good questions.

 

[Shuriken]

So... after many test runs to end the season, the 2002 model will weave as well, also around 115 and above.

It feels reasonably safe and stable at all speeds below the magic 115, which is perfectly reasonable and works just fine for average and spirited riding, or 95% of conditions.

It just sort of induces an oscillation at that speed and above.

The only reason to go beyond on a track would be to test, but I've done plenty of that already and don't intend to dive down that hole again, other than the easy stuff, such as tire pressure and wheel balance.

I did notice on this bike that tucking in under the fly screen makes the wobble worse, sitting upright into the airstream calms it down a bunch, just like in the old YouTube video clips, and this adds another 15mph.

I also tried different rear suspension settings but that just makes the ride much harsher and didn't solve it.

3 friends of mine and I all traded rides. You can really zero in on differences this way. The verdict from 2 other first time vmax riders was that the twin shock rear end was to blame. Maybe so, but I still also wonder about rider weight. I'd still argue that this bike is better for 250lb riders!

I will say that the BMW in the attached pic has the best suspension I have ever experienced on a bike. Steering head is effortless, and safe, and stable at all speeds. It also has a steering stabilizer!

The Honda is .... boy... just a cruise missile with endless legs. Of course it steers precisely and smoothly and there is not any hint of issue at high speed, either.

It was a great day for a ride, and probably also our last nice weather day of the year.

 

[brian hicks]

I weigh 150lbs. I've just fitted a taller Givi screen and when the weather allows I will test it. The taller screen may give me more down pressure on the front but we will see what effect if any it has on the wobble.

 

[Traumahawk]

I cant remember if you have tried this or not, so please forgive me if you have, but have you tried raising the front forks about an inch in the triple trees? That will change the center of gravity and basically add more weight on the front tire and should add stability.

 

[Shuriken]

I weigh 150lbs. I've just fitted a taller Givi screen and when the weather allows I will test it. The taller screen may give me more down pressure on the front but we will see what effect if any it has on the wobble.

The Givi is a nice screen. I think it looks the best among the aftermarket screens.

That's what I have right now.

 

[brian hicks]

I cant remember if you have tried this or not, so please forgive me if you have, but have you tried raising the front forks about an inch in the triple trees? That will change the center of gravity and basically add more weight on the front tire and should add stability.

I did the fork trick by about an inch and also fitted stiffer springs but it made no difference. I did find that when I moved the rebound from 1 to 4 on the original rear suspension it made quite a difference but I'm now running on YSS suspension and it feels the same as the originals.

 

[Henne]

I made the bike Slip down on the fork for 5 cm .
Then i added a stearing Suspension.
No Problem to Ride 240km/h

 

[Fire-medic]

5cm=1.9"

I think that you're in danger of having the front fender hitting the radiator shroud at that much movement upwards of the front downtubes.

Please give more information on your 'stearing Suspension.'

A general rule of thumb is to drop the rear the same as the front. That said, the drop of the 13" OEM rear shock length by 5 cm would be to 11" (5 cm=1.9") which will probably cause you to drag the centerstand or the sidestand if you've removed the centerstand. The maximum reduction for the rear suspension eyelet center-to-center is 1.5" so 13"-1.5"=11.5"

 

[Shuriken]

I haven't had the luxury of multiple rear shocks but I would not be opposed to trying a set of 1 inch lower rear suspension on the 02. I'm finished working on the 85 for the time being, though.

The 02 has seen 130 indicated and on GPS but a rider cannot get there tucked in. The wind exposure, for whatever reason, helps with stability. Tucking in brings on the onset of the speed weave maybe 105/110ish. Strange and hard-to-tame, these v-max bikes are indeed!

I'm sure a physicist could calculate the lever effect due to wind resistance, applied through the rider, to the rear shocks, at high speed. Perhaps being upright in the wind has a similar effect on the rear suspension as does increasing rider weight, in combination with the natural pullback on the handlebars at speed, in the wind, just to hold on. Net effect = more stability at high speed.