VMax fuel economy

[Buster Hymen]

another forum i frequent uses HOOLIGAN and BADASSHOOLIGAN as names when yu get to a certain post countunk: *nudge*

Forum Supporters can put in any name they want! unk: *nudge* :biglaugh:

 

[06VMAXIMUS]

Filled up tonight....110miles, 2.7 gallons 40.7mpg. Not bad...mostly back roads and some highway.

 

[max_caper]

Yep, Dale recommends 155 mains..... IN TEXAS AT SEA LEVEL. But hey who am I to speak out. Not that I have ANY experience at jetting carbs.... oh wait I got more experience changing your jets than anyone has a right to. Get stuffed!!!! Who are you to give me crap about the race. You won't even show up for goodness sakes. Too expensive if you break your bike:rofl_200: Don't you worry bout me being VMOA VP, last I checked you bash the VMOA more than anyone I know so your opinion matters about squat to me.

No disrepspect to your jetting prowess, Jim but Dale recommended 155 to me when I asked him. Are you saying you know more about this subject than Dale?

I did not give you crap about the race, Jim. I made a joke about you finishing second to a mostly stock 1985 because you tend to talk large about your 1428 EFI Max. When folks talk large and **** happens it creates a situation for comedic responses! And you do make a fair number of excuses (e.g. EFI tweaking) which are humorous to read about and therefore comment upon.

"Expensive" is a relative term, Jim. When you and the boys were drag racing two Max-ers broke clutches. It cost one member over 600 dollars to replace this item and have it installed. I commented that this was an expensive way for these folks to make four 11-second passes down a racetrack. The week after your track day my son and I had a 2-day, 2-up road trip through upstate New York. Beautiful scenery, great people, and excellent food. This trip cost me almost as much as the clutch install in terms of food, lodging, gas, travel insurance, and souvenirs but it really was "priceless". I don't mind spending money on my bike but you and I have WAY different priorities when it comes to spending time and money.

On a serious note, Jim, you really ought to be careful about accusing a businessman like Dale Walker as someone who "rips off" other products. You are an influential member of the VMOA and Dale supplies products to many of its members. Dale may not take kindly to your comments and hold you and/or the VMOA accountable for any false accusations. Yes, I do tend to "bash" the VMOA based on my experiences when I was a member; I do not accuse them of criminal activities (like stealing patents) like you're saying about Dale's Holeshot exhaust system.

Cheers!

Blaine

 

[maleko89]

155's are too rich. Friend had 4-2 Holeshots and his worked best with 147.5 Mikunis at 800-1000 feet above sea level.

It is common knowledge Walker bought Hindles and re-badged them as Holeshot before he started building his own setups. Nothing wrong with it as Furbur does the same thing with HMF and his 2D9S systems.

 

[m-cman]

Rode about 210 miles yesterday with mostly 80 - 85 mph highway driving with about 45 miles of backroads. Got on it a few times but not much. Averaged 36+ mpg with the venture rear end and stock carbs. Really expected more with my setup. Do have to use the 10% ethanol gas though, which supposedly reduces mileage by 5 to 10%. Also was about 98 degrees which may affect mileage also.

 

[max_caper]

155's are too rich. Friend had 4-2 Holeshots and his worked best with 147.5 Mikunis at 800-1000 feet above sea level.

It is common knowledge Walker bought Hindles and re-badged them as Holeshot before he started building his own setups. Nothing wrong with it as Furbur does the same thing with HMF and his 2D9S systems.

Thanks for the reply. I think I better understand the marketing thing now. I was under the impression that his 4-2 systems were his own handiwork and that his earlier system (e.g. 4-1 system) were made using outsourced supplies. Just not liking the rip-off and thief monikers; Dale has sold me products at fair prices and is one of those vendors that calls and/or emails back promptly.

I tried a bunch of configurations to date with various degrees of success. Dale told me to use 155 mikunis with his exhaust. My bike uses stock needles and a K&N air filter with no Y in the airbox. Now I have good throttle response across the tach, no hiccups anywhere, and my gas mileage is around 120 miles per tank.

Admittedly I have not dyno-tuned my bike so you and Jim may be 100%correct about the 155's being too rich and the 147.5's being a better go. I will give it a try and if you're right, I'll let both you and Jim know and send an email to Dale Walker as well so he can hear it from me first-hand.

Thanks again for the reply Mark.

Blaine

 

[max_caper]

Rode about 210 miles yesterday with mostly 80 - 85 mph highway driving with about 45 miles of backroads. Got on it a few times but not much. Averaged 36+ mpg with the venture rear end and stock carbs. Really expected more with my setup. Do have to use the 10% ethanol gas though, which supposedly reduces mileage by 5 to 10%. Also was about 98 degrees which may affect mileage also.

Hi,

My bike revs 5000 rpm at 70 mph with no venture diff. Would your Max be in the 4500 rpm range with the Venture swap? I was looking at this mod to improve my gas mileage.

Thanks,

Blaine

 

[m-cman]

Hi,

My bike revs 5000 rpm at 70 mph with no venture diff. Would your Max be in the 4500 rpm range with the Venture swap? I was looking at this mod to improve my gas mileage.

Thanks,

Blaine

It seems to drop about 500 rpm at highway speeds. The speedo error with the lower profile tire is about 5 mph at 75 indicated. (My GPS said I was going about 70.) I am not 100% sure of this as my GPS broke the first time I did this test. Did not get to do backup tests or tests at different speeds.

 

[mr.maxx]

Forum Supporters can put in any name they want! unk: *nudge* :biglaugh:

oook i c how ya are!!!:hmmm:

 

[Thevmaxrider]

No disrepspect to your jetting prowess, Jim but Dale recommended 155 to me when I asked him. Are you saying you know more about this subject than Dale?

I did not give you crap about the race, Jim. I made a joke about you finishing second to a mostly stock 1985 because you tend to talk large about your 1428 EFI Max. When folks talk large and **** happens it creates a situation for comedic responses! And you do make a fair number of excuses (e.g. EFI tweaking) which are humorous to read about and therefore comment upon.

"Expensive" is a relative term, Jim. When you and the boys were drag racing two Max-ers broke clutches. It cost one member over 600 dollars to replace this item and have it installed. I commented that this was an expensive way for these folks to make four 11-second passes down a racetrack. The week after your track day my son and I had a 2-day, 2-up road trip through upstate New York. Beautiful scenery, great people, and excellent food. This trip cost me almost as much as the clutch install in terms of food, lodging, gas, travel insurance, and souvenirs but it really was "priceless". I don't mind spending money on my bike but you and I have WAY different priorities when it comes to spending time and money.

On a serious note, Jim, you really ought to be careful about accusing a businessman like Dale Walker as someone who "rips off" other products. You are an influential member of the VMOA and Dale supplies products to many of its members. Dale may not take kindly to your comments and hold you and/or the VMOA accountable for any false accusations. Yes, I do tend to "bash" the VMOA based on my experiences when I was a member; I do not accuse them of criminal activities (like stealing patents) like you're saying about Dale's Holeshot exhaust system.

Cheers!

Blaine

Will respond point by point with small words for you:

1) As Mark responded, and you listened to him, 147.5's work best at OUR altitude. No disrespect to Dale, but I have tuned bikes here and know what jetting works well with the 4-2 systems here so I do know what I am talking about.

2) If my memory serves me correctly, and it usually does, I have NOT "talked large" about how my bike has been performing with the EFI. Reason being is that is HASN'T been performing well. I have been talking to Buster and Bill at Wild Bros. trying to get it tuned. Before the drag day I did talk smack with Sheldon, but him and I both knew it was just in jest and WE had fun with it. I am just now getting it sorted and finally it seems to be working as advertised. Finding humour in someone else's problems just isn't funny in my book. It would seem that the only person who finds you funny is you.

3) Lemme see where to go with this next one. First off neither of the guys who blew out their clutches seem to be complaining about the cost of fixing their bikes. The gent you referenced refused an offer by myself to come and install the new clutch for him free of charge because he felt it would inconvenience me too much, and he didn't get any discount on his parts which he could have gotten if we had been able to point him in the right direction prior to his purchase. Had he done either of these he would have seen a substantial savings cost wise. The only point I will concede is that you definately have a different view on what is a good way to spend your money, but as it is your money who would I be to tell you where to spend it.

4) No where in any post did I say that Dale "ripped off" anything from anyone. As Mark said it is common knowledge that he re-badges/labels/packages others products and markets them as his. I would assume that he has some sort of licensing agreement with the manufacturers, but that is his business and not mine. I appreciate your "concern" for me and the VMOA, but don't lose any sleep over it as we are big boys and can take care of ourselves.

Hopefully you now get the picture, but for some reason I don't think so.

On topic, I am now getting ~100 miles before my fuel light comes on so my tuning efforts seem to be working.

 

[max_caper]

I apologise, Jim, for my misinterpretation of your use of the term "rip offs" on this forum.

Don't you see some comedic irony in that you lost in a drag to a mostly stock VMax? It isn't personal. It's almost like a stock F150 outperforming Bigfoot at the monster truck rally. You just don't expect it to happen.

Glad you are happy with your 100 miles/tank and that you're tuning mods are yielding positive results. Hope your bike works well for you now and in the future.

I give you credit for your suggestion, Jim, about the 147.5's and I apologise for shutting you down in this regard. When Mark followed up your input he used a scenario (VMax/Holeshots) that was almost identical to my bike's set-up; it gave me an apples to apples incentive to try this configuration.


"small words" "get stuffed" that's not called for, Jim. I hope it's just an attempt to get me riled up or something!

Blaine

 

[Thevmaxrider]

I apologise, Jim, for my misinterpretation of your use of the term "rip offs" on this forum. No worries, I figured you might have misunderstood so I had to make sure there was no issue:biglaugh:

Don't you see some comedic irony in that you lost in a drag to a mostly stock VMax? It isn't personal. It's almost like a stock F150 outperforming Bigfoot at the monster truck rally. You just don't expect it to happen. Trust me I saw the irony, but if you had seen me at drag day you would understand. I was uber frustrated given the time and yes the money spent on my bike not yielding results. After talking to Buster and with a couple of minor tweaks my bike improved immensely, hence the loss to the 85, I picked up 15 mph and "broke out". Head to head I beat him, but even then I still wasn't getting the best out of the bike.

Glad you are happy with your 100 miles/tank and that you're tuning mods are yielding positive results. Hope your bike works well for you now and in the future. Yep, am happier with that mileage. Figure I have 20% more displacement, so to extrapolate that out I technically should use ~20% more fuel due to the major increase in air volume per revolution. Still have a wicked stumble at ~7k rpm, but will be working on tuning that out shortly:eusa_dance:

I give you credit for your suggestion, Jim, about the 147.5's and I apologise for shutting you down in this regard. When Mark followed up your input he used a scenario (VMax/Holeshots) that was almost identical to my bike's set-up; it gave me an apples to apples incentive to try this configuration. My only issue here is that I have told you too many times to count what jets would work great in your bike. The differences between the HMF, UFO, Holeshot, and Mark's exhausts when it comes to jetting are miniscule at best. I based my experience off of jetting my own, when I had the HMF, and a couple of others with similar exhausts that perform well. If you were running a Kerker I would think that the 147.5's would work, but you might even go to 145's as the Kerker really flows well and has high exhaust gas velocities due to scavenging better than a 4-2, with the possible exception of the Mark's which has the crossover pipe.


"small words" "get stuffed" that's not called for, Jim. I hope it's just an attempt to get me riled up or something! Nah, that was just to make sure I made my point without the need for guessing what I meant. Hate confusion as it breeds issues, see posts in this thread for examples. The "get stuffed" well that was to rile you up:biglaugh:

Blaine

See above in red, won't let me post without writing something outside the quote:confused2:

 

[max_caper]

Good replies, Jim, and interesting choice of colour for your text! Pretty sure my chances to poke fun are numbered when it comes to your bike's performance.

I am trying to maximize my gas mileage. Your advice to move down a size or two in jets may help me do just that. I will let you know and email Walker with any improvements I may find and give credit where it's due.

IMO, drag racing causes premature wear-and-tear on a Max with stock mechanicals. My cousin drag races a ZX12 and he admits that its not a cheap hobby and it is a good way to wear out a good bike faster.

I admit that I'm intrigued by the thought of legally breaking any speed limit but at the end of the day I would probably find out that my bike is within 1-2 seconds of every other mostly stock Max. I know there's the social aspect of track day but I can get this on the open road. In your case, I see the incentive to drag race: yours is a unique beast and it probably has the potential run with or maybe even outperform a gen-2.

My kids love riding 2-up with the old man and I see this as a more satisfying way of spending my money and wearing out my bike. I just don't want to be worrying about how far it is to the next gas station! If I decide to sell/replace my Max , "never raced" may be a good ad pitch.

Blaine

 

[Thevmaxrider]

Good replies, Jim, and interesting choice of colour for your text! Pretty sure my chances to poke fun are numbered when it comes to your bike's performance.

I am trying to maximize my gas mileage. Your advice to move down a size or two in jets may help me do just that. I will let you know and email Walker with any improvements I may find and give credit where it's due.

IMO, drag racing causes premature wear-and-tear on a Max with stock mechanicals. My cousin drag races a ZX12 and he admits that its not a cheap hobby and it is a good way to wear out a good bike faster.

I admit that I'm intrigued by the thought of legally breaking any speed limit but at the end of the day I would probably find out that my bike is within 1-2 seconds of every other mostly stock Max. I know there's the social aspect of track day but I can get this on the open road. In your case, I see the incentive to drag race: yours is a unique beast and it probably has the potential run with or maybe even outperform a gen-2.

My kids love riding 2-up with the old man and I see this as a more satisfying way of spending my money and wearing out my bike. I just don't want to be worrying about how far it is to the next gas station! If I decide to sell/replace my Max , "never raced" may be a good ad pitch.

Blaine

Thx Blaine, and trust me I am regretting the choice of colour for the text! Thought that red would be easier to read, but damn does it hurt the eyes:bang head: You are correct about drag racing being tough on any bike, hell any vehicle. Taking a bike from a standing start and giving it full throttle for 1/4 mile without letting up has to take a toll. To be honest I was only launching at 3-4k rpm when I know that I could launch at 6-7k without issue, for a short time before I did eat some part of the bike up.

Jodi and I looked at getting a second Max for touring around and keep Toxic for playing with the boys or the track, but not right now. Will keep ya up to date on my fuel economy once I get Toxic tuned.

 

[4gasem]

FEI: Dales current system IS his system. His Bro in law actually works for him and welds them up. It took him over a year to design it and it shows. It's the best/tightest (to the bike) fitting exhaust I've seen for the max.

I ran 155's, one spacer on the needles and a K&N filter with his exhaust and ran 122 bhp and the A/F was pretty good at about 900 feet ASL. a 152 would have been better though.

Chris

 

[Thevmaxrider]

Blaine has one of his old systems which is why I said what I said. Maybe that is why Dale told him to run the 155's because they work best with the new system:confused2:

 

[max_caper]

Thank you all for the feedback. I'll post to let you all know how the jetting changes work and how it affects fuel economy.

Blaine

 

[naughtyG]

Hi,

My bike revs 5000 rpm at 70 mph with no venture diff. Would your Max be in the 4500 rpm range with the Venture swap? I was looking at this mod to improve my gas mileage.

I run the Venture diff too. Using a Shinko 110 at the front, so I guess my speedo should be as accurate as it's ever gonna be? I didn't really notice much of a mpg improvement with the diff, but it's definitely more relaxed for the equivalent speed on the highway.

my readings:
3500 = 55mph
4000 = 65mph
4500 = 75mph
5000 = 85mph
5500 = 95mph
6000 = 105mph
and so on..

I can't get it above 135mph though, that's with the windshield and hard saddle bags.

 

[Buster Hymen]

Don't you see some comedic irony in that you lost in a drag to a mostly stock VMax? It isn't personal. It's almost like a stock F150 outperforming Bigfoot at the monster truck rally. You just don't expect it to happen.

Blaine

It wasn't a straight head to head drag race, if it was, Jim won. This is bracket racing, where rider AND bike consistency is key. Jim never dialed in a good map for his EFI until his race with Brad and broke out by over 1 second! Brad and his bike was consistent on all the runs and this is what wins bracket racing. You don't need a fast vehicle to win bracket racing, you need consistency. Actually if I remember right, Brad also broke out on his race with Jim but by .1 second.

 

[max_caper]

It wasn't a straight head to head drag race, if it was, Jim won. This is bracket racing, where rider AND bike consistency is key. Jim never dialed in a good map for his EFI until his race with Brad and broke out by over 1 second! Brad and his bike was consistent on all the runs and this is what wins bracket racing. You don't need a fast vehicle to win bracket racing, you need consistency. Actually if I remember right, Brad also broke out on his race with Jim but by .1 second.

Yes, consistency can make all the difference. Hopefully Jim will find a map that will give him lots of go and still be decent on fuel when driven conservatively.

Blaine