What oil to use, that is the question

[one2dmax]

I had a issue with pick up coil and had to call Yamaha USA and they recommended me to use yamalube that way I can be part of engine warranty for 20 yrs and 100000 miles
Gorki

The engines (nor any other part on any bike Yamaha sells) is warrantied for 100k miles or 20 years.

 

[Jaketheone46]

Since I have come to the forum, I have read many posts on motor oils. I have also learned from past experience that discussing motor oils on a forum is like discussing politics or religion at a family reunion, one should just not do it. But part of a forum is to share information for the betterment of everyone. So, I will be breaking the cardinal rule to never talk about oil.

The two main recommendations on the forum with respect to the topic of which oil to use in the Vmax are to stay away from synthetic oil, and to use Shell Rotella, an oil designed for diesel engines. Neither are the best advice.

The reason people are warned to stay away from synthetics by some on this forum is to prevent clutch slippage. It is true that synthetic motor oil is slipperier than petroleum oils, that is ONE of MANY reasons why synthetic oils perform better than petroleum oils. But just because an oil is synthetic isn’t a reason to give up all the good it brings to the table because of the fear of clutch slippage. There are MANY oils that are synthetics that are formulated for motorcycles that run wet clutches (clutches that live in the motor cases and are exposed to the motor’s oil) and don’t cause clutch slippage. Those oils can be found by looking at the label and seeing if they have the JASO rating. JASO stands for Japanese Automobile Standards Organization. It was accepted as the global standard for the T903 specification for clutch slippage in wet clutches in 1998. Also, JASO comes in 2 formulations, MA and MA2. MA doesn’t have as much grip as MA2, so it comes down to feel in the clutch lever as to which you want (more bite with MA2 at the point of hookup). Or if you are running a modified high torque/high HP motor you might want MA2. Most will be happy with MA. So, when you are buying a motor oil for a bike that has a wet clutch look at the label and make sure it is JASO approved, that goes for either synthetic or petroleum, and you won’t have clutch slippage.

The reason I believe you are doing your motor a disservice running Rotella is because it is an oil designed for diesel applications, not motorcycle applications. Rotella is a GREAT oil in a diesel engine. It has a long following in the diesel truck world, and I have used it on a limited basis in my diesel trucks. It also has a JASO rating on the label, so that is why it doesn’t cause slippage. But the demands on an oil in a motorcycle are very different and much more rigorous than a diesel motor. But the biggest reason to run a motorcycle specific oil over something like Rotella is our Vmax engines have the transmission lubricated, cooled, and protected by the motor oil. That is where a motorcycle specific oil comes into play.

Most modern motor oils have Viscosity Index Improvers in them. They are polymer molecules, like polymethacrylates (PMA) polyisobutylene (PIB), radial polyisoprene and olefin co-polymers (OCP), that change the viscosity of the oil and make the oil thicker when hot. For example, a 10W40 motor oil (if you don’t know, the W stands for winter(cold), 10W is the weight of the oil. But as the oil gets warmer the VI Improvers change size to make the oil thicker, up to 40 weight. This is great technology, and it works flawlessly, until it gets exposed to the shearing forces in a motorcycle transmission. The shearing forces in just motor part of our Vmax are not terribly hard on the oil. The forces in rod journals, main bearings, cam lobe faces, pistons and rings don’t have the ripping and tearing of the VI Improvers that the gears in the transmission subject them too. Motorcycle oils have additives to protect and prolong the life of the VI improvers and the oil. So, if you do use a non-motorcycle oil you should change your oil more frequently because over time the ability of the VI improvers to do their job is reduced. There was an article in Motorcyclist magazine a few years ago, and they recommended, if you run an automotive oil in your motorcycle, you should change at intervals no longer than 1000 miles because of what the transmission does to the oil. The process of VI Improvers being torn apart by the transmission over time reduces the viscosity of the oil. For example, the oil may start out as a 10W-40 but over time, it may become 10W-35, and then a 10w-30, and if it goes long enough it could be way out of the original viscosity specs.

I don’t want this post to get too long, so I only really touched lightly on the subject. There is plenty of data and articles on the subject too if you care to get more info on this topic.

I take it you’re also a member of the bobistheoilguy forum. I’m a total oil freak myself. Haven’t decided on what I’ll use on my 09 vmax1700 yet but use both amsoil 10w40 metric and mobile 1 racing 4t 10w40 and love both. Not sure if the vmax would be better with the amsoil 10w40 metric or the 15w50 metric. And if I use mobile 1 I’ve not decided on the 10w40t racing or a 20w50 perhaps.
I would think a 40 weight would be fine but have not researched oil for the max just yet.

 

[Jaketheone46]

As you mentioned that this can be a tought conversation with a lot of opinion and passion for each persons favored oil.

What I can tell you is that we use Rotella almost exclusively in the motorcycle (and car) engines we build and the extra sulfer works very well for the shearing issues you describe. The clutch loves it. AND, we see good overall wear. Not to mention the price is very competitive. It's been in my record setting 2009 (currently the fastest na stock motored gen 2 vmax on the planet). It lasts WAY longer then 1000 miles.

Again,
You can have your opinion and run what you want to. There really is no BAD oil. Just lack of oil. You can run the crappiest oil with the most miles on it then you would even think possible and it will still work. It's really only when you are low on oil or lose oil pressure that any real issues arise.

Fastest at what? Just curious what you’re talking about and how you know yours is the fastest? I’m not doubting you but have no idea what you’re talking about.

 

[Giantkiller]

I was wondering about the warranty thing myself?

Mr Morley are you running t6 synthetic Rotella? Or not. And why not? Thanks

 

[cdgawatersports]

Golden Spectro and I vote red head !

 

[one2dmax]

I was wondering about the warranty thing myself?

Mr Morley are you running t6 synthetic Rotella? Or not. And why not? Thanks

No, I need all the clutch grip I can muster and run a special blend my BG buddy made me (0w). For my street bikes I run the rotealla non synthetic in everything.

 

[one2dmax]

Fastest at what? Just curious what you’re talking about and how you know yours is the fastest? I’m not doubting you but have no idea what you’re talking about.

Show me a post of a stock motored gen 2 that has run 9.09 or better with nothing but bolt on mods (engine internally stock except for the double d clutch mod). It's been 8's with nitrous help but I don't include that in my statement.

 

[PATMAX]

All the oil “talk” is wasted human time. Use what most people that have had decades of Vmax experience use. change your **** at regular intervals. World hunger could have been solved with all the effort put into the subject.

 

[Dkid]

All the oil “talk” is wasted human time. Use what most people that have had decades of Vmax experience use. change your **** at regular intervals. World hunger could have been solved with all the effort put into the subject.

Lmaooooo

 

[Jaketheone46]

Show me a post of a stock motored gen 2 that has run 9.09 or better with nothing but bolt on mods (engine internally stock except for the double d clutch mod). It's been 8's with nitrous help but I don't include that in my statement.

Oh so the fastest guy on the forum because you say so, lol I had no idea but assumed there was some kind of legitimate vmax event or something. Anyway being this is a keyboard forum event im fairly bone stock in the low 6s so you’re gonna need a few seconds to be the fastest. I have a 09 myself #262 the original Vance and Hines vmax1700 which they acquired new to develop the CS-1 exhaust system, it’s a pretty cool transformer theme painted by Criss Woods.It’s definitely the fastest 09 ever.

 

[CaptainKyle]

Oh so the fastest guy on the forum because you say so, lol I had no idea but assumed there was some kind of legitimate vmax event or something. Anyway being this is a keyboard forum event im fairly bone stock in the low 6s so you’re gonna need a few seconds to be the fastest. I have a 09 myself #262 the original Vance and Hines vmax1700 which they acquired new to develop the CS-1 exhaust system, it’s a pretty cool transformer theme painted by Criss Woods.It’s definitely the fastest 09 ever.

Please show some time slips ! Sean has his and it's all on video. He is talking 1/4 mile not 1/8th put up or shut up ! My bets are on Sean for a meet up race.

 

[one2dmax]

I guess I should have posted pics. I guess with you being new and all you were not part of the groups discussion for the last decade plus.

This is a cool pic but isn't good for speed just to be clear.

 

[user 74794]

Quickest and fastest two totally different things.

 

[rrego]

Both are shown on the time slip.

 

[user 74794]

Both are shown on the time slip.

I'm talking like 1/2 mile and 1 mile which would be categorized as fast. I can claim to be very fast even though I'm not quick.

 

[one2dmax]

I'm talking like 1/2 mile and 1 mile which would be categorized as fast. I can claim to be very fast even though I'm not quick.

I believe I have a slip trapping 150+ in the quarter as well. As far as top speed, that's not going to change for most of these bikes. I could use a tall tire like a 200/55-18 or let out of my slick some so it could "grow" to gain some top end but that increases the risk of tire failure. BUT, I do have a better chance of getting the both quicker AND faster within the same given distance until I max out the rev capability of the engine (which again I have raised the rev limiter from stock). So, it's very likely I could own both records (just haven't gone out of my way to do it).

 

[Dkid]

I believe I have a slip trapping 150+ in the quarter as well. As far as top speed, that's not going to change for most of these bikes. I could use a tall tire like a 200/55-18 or let out of my slick some so it could "grow" to gain some top end but that increases the risk of tire failure. BUT, I do have a better chance of getting the both quicker AND faster within the same given distance until I max out the rev capability of the engine (which again I have raised the rev limiter from stock). So, it's very likely I could own both records (just haven't gone out of my way to do it).

My MONEYS on You!!

 

[sdt354_8Qi]

We talked about this for eons on this forum previously. And the general consensus from those who have been inside the vmax engine/transmission is Rotella 15-20 properties are perfect for our bikes. One thing to consider is the oil is lubing the transmission as well, like Sean mentioned shear factor. The 1st thing I did to my 12k vmax was ditch the friction disk that were run in synthetic oil. An oil change didn't stop the slipping clutch. 60k miles later all is just
fine.

 

[DR.MUSIC]

Since I have come to the forum, I have read many posts on motor oils. I have also learned from past experience that discussing motor oils on a forum is like discussing politics or religion at a family reunion, one should just not do it. But part of a forum is to share information for the betterment of everyone. So, I will be breaking the cardinal rule to never talk about oil.

The two main recommendations on the forum with respect to the topic of which oil to use in the Vmax are to stay away from synthetic oil, and to use Shell Rotella, an oil designed for diesel engines. Neither are the best advice.

The reason people are warned to stay away from synthetics by some on this forum is to prevent clutch slippage. It is true that synthetic motor oil is slipperier than petroleum oils, that is ONE of MANY reasons why synthetic oils perform better than petroleum oils. But just because an oil is synthetic isn’t a reason to give up all the good it brings to the table because of the fear of clutch slippage. There are MANY oils that are synthetics that are formulated for motorcycles that run wet clutches (clutches that live in the motor cases and are exposed to the motor’s oil) and don’t cause clutch slippage. Those oils can be found by looking at the label and seeing if they have the JASO rating. JASO stands for Japanese Automobile Standards Organization. It was accepted as the global standard for the T903 specification for clutch slippage in wet clutches in 1998. Also, JASO comes in 2 formulations, MA and MA2. MA doesn’t have as much grip as MA2, so it comes down to feel in the clutch lever as to which you want (more bite with MA2 at the point of hookup). Or if you are running a modified high torque/high HP motor you might want MA2. Most will be happy with MA. So, when you are buying a motor oil for a bike that has a wet clutch look at the label and make sure it is JASO approved, that goes for either synthetic or petroleum, and you won’t have clutch slippage.

The reason I believe you are doing your motor a disservice running Rotella is because it is an oil designed for diesel applications, not motorcycle applications. Rotella is a GREAT oil in a diesel engine. It has a long following in the diesel truck world, and I have used it on a limited basis in my diesel trucks. It also has a JASO rating on the label, so that is why it doesn’t cause slippage. But the demands on an oil in a motorcycle are very different and much more rigorous than a diesel motor. But the biggest reason to run a motorcycle specific oil over something like Rotella is our Vmax engines have the transmission lubricated, cooled, and protected by the motor oil. That is where a motorcycle specific oil comes into play.

Most modern motor oils have Viscosity Index Improvers in them. They are polymer molecules, like polymethacrylates (PMA) polyisobutylene (PIB), radial polyisoprene and olefin co-polymers (OCP), that change the viscosity of the oil and make the oil thicker when hot. For example, a 10W40 motor oil (if you don’t know, the W stands for winter(cold), 10W is the weight of the oil. But as the oil gets warmer the VI Improvers change size to make the oil thicker, up to 40 weight. This is great technology, and it works flawlessly, until it gets exposed to the shearing forces in a motorcycle transmission. The shearing forces in just motor part of our Vmax are not terribly hard on the oil. The forces in rod journals, main bearings, cam lobe faces, pistons and rings don’t have the ripping and tearing of the VI Improvers that the gears in the transmission subject them too. Motorcycle oils have additives to protect and prolong the life of the VI improvers and the oil. So, if you do use a non-motorcycle oil you should change your oil more frequently because over time the ability of the VI improvers to do their job is reduced. There was an article in Motorcyclist magazine a few years ago, and they recommended, if you run an automotive oil in your motorcycle, you should change at intervals no longer than 1000 miles because of what the transmission does to the oil. The process of VI Improvers being torn apart by the transmission over time reduces the viscosity of the oil. For example, the oil may start out as a 10W-40 but over time, it may become 10W-35, and then a 10w-30, and if it goes long enough it could be way out of the original viscosity specs.

I don’t want this post to get too long, so I only really touched lightly on the subject. There is plenty of data and articles on the subject too if you care to get more info on this topic.

So please suggest the best oil possible for our gen2 bikes. Normal people want oil names to pour in and be happy. : )
Thank you.

 

[DR.MUSIC]

Fastest at what? Just curious what you’re talking about and how you know yours is the fastest? I’m not doubting you but have no idea what you’re talking about.

Put up a photo of the Rotella you're using in the gen2. The one with the extra zinc and sulphur that's good for our clutch.
Thank you Sir. And what interval changes.