Why is N between 1 and 2?

[RaWarrior]

This has always seemed like a weird design flaw in motorcycle transmissions....why is N placed between 1 and 2 in the sequential shift? It seems like such a random idea....lets make it a half click between the two "fastest" gears.

As such, we have 2nd gear problems from people that hot-rod their bikes(regardless of age, brand), heard about people blowing out 2nd gear on everything from V65's to M109's. The 1-2 shift, arguably the "hardest" on the transmission, has to jump through neutral before grabbing the next gear.

Most semi-auto quads put N at the "bottom", as in N-1-2-3-4-5. Some older clutched quads used this as well, though everything since the mid-90's has been the usual 1-N-2-..... Yamaha quads with reverse are even more complicated...they're R-1-N-2-3-4-5

Automotive sequential gearboxes don't put neutral in the middle....it's at the bottom as you'd logically expect.

Anybody know why our transmissions are like this?

 

[gamorg02]

Awesome question

 

[MaxMidnight]

My guess would be so that you can't accidentally shift past first and into neutral.
That would be particularly nasty when the large truck is bearing down on you and you want to get out of the way quickly!......or you are going around the hairpin bend and loose all drive.

Given the number of times we all go for a non existent sixth gear I suspect that we would be capable of finding neutral far too often if it was at the bottom of the sequence.

I seem to recall that early Kawasaki's used to have neutral at the bottom.

 

[one2dmax]

My Yamaha Wolverine as R-N-1-2-3-4-5

I suspect some of that could be the sizes of those gears. If we put the N at the bottom if would make a very long throw to get into 1st. But, as was already noted it may be simply so you don't hit that N on the roadway when shifting down and then try and get it jammed back into place. These transmissions don't have syncronizers to help alleviate that.

Sean

 

[ninjaneer]

Excellent question. When I first learned about how to shift a bike, I remember being shocked at the non-intuitiveness of this.
Google came up with the following. i'm by far no tranny expert. does this make sense to you experts/pros?

Originally posted by cornflakes

When you shift a car transmission, you're doing two things: selecting which pair of gears you want to shift, and shifting into one gear of that pair. For example, if you want to shift into low, you move the stick sideways into the first-second gate, then push forwards to engage first.

Motorcycle transmissions do the same thing, but they do it indirectly by using a sector to select each gate and gear. The sector is a rotating drum with slots cut into it to engage each of the gears in sequence. The shifter ratchets sequentially through the gears.

Neutral (yes, I'm finally getting to it!) isn't so much a position between first and second; it's really just a resting point halfway between first and second. You can usually find a false neutral between any two gears, just shift halfway to the next gear. The neutral detent is near first gear to make it easier to shift into first.

And yes, transmissions are put together that way because it's the conventional way of doing it.

 

[VMax-Mike]

I was told that 1st is one down and the rest up for safty. When you come to a fast stop you can click them all the way down and find first gear to get you rolling fast again if the guy behind you is going to hit you. Motorcycle safty 101. But if pos you should always down shift your gears one at a time so that you have a strong gear to get you out of trouble.

 

[95spfldmax]

My guess would be so that you can't accidentally shift past first and into neutral.
That would be particularly nasty when the large truck is bearing down on you and you want to get out of the way quickly!......or you are going around the hairpin bend and loose all drive.

Given the number of times we all go for a non existent sixth gear I suspect that we would be capable of finding neutral far too often if it was at the bottom of the sequence.

I seem to recall that early Kawasaki's used to have neutral at the bottom.

My triple is set up like that.............

 

[spursmech]

Excellent question. When I first learned about how to shift a bike, I remember being shocked at the non-intuitiveness of this.
Google came up with the following. i'm by far no tranny expert. does this make sense to you experts/pros?

Originally posted by cornflakes

unk: Yes, Old Harleys with Jockey Shifts had neutral between each gear and a foot clutch. Those were the good old days, no problem finding neutral. Ha Ha, Spurs

 

[Fire-medic]

The sequential shift has it that way because of the danger of the type of gearbox mentioned in Kawasakis of old. Actually I think I recall the Bridgestones had the 'endless' gearbox, where you could just keep banging-away in one direction, and eventually you would end up in neutral, at the bottom. Shift thru the gears going up, and if you shift past top gear, you end up in first again. What would happen to the motor?

As has been mentioned, shifting down to the bottom of the gearbox puts you still in a gear to move the bike in an emergency if you have to go in a hurry.

 

[satariel666]

There are some mororcycles with second N placed beteween 3 & 4 or beteween
4 & 5. Also there are some bikes with 1st gear on the top of shift lever, usually 1st in on the bottom.

Theoreticly its possible to engage the N beteween all gears but that situation will never stay long.


I personaly saw one idiot on motorcycle event who shifted into 1st gear running about 100mph - one or two times and you will not destroy your tranny but I dont know how much try-out do you have.

 

[CaptainKyle]

I really have to think when riding my Buddys Sunbeam. Its right hand shift & is 1 up & 3 down

 

[SpecOps13]

I swear I've found a neutral between every gear on my Sportster.:rofl_200:

 

[RaWarrior]

I remember I got a neutral between 2nd and 3rd once on my Max....I banged into third and got neutral instead along with a rather unpleasant noise. I thought I had broken the transmission, though I slowed down, worked the shifter a bit, and it found its way back to second and then was fine...

A Raptor quad I rode had the typical 1-N-2...., but to get reverse you put it in neutral, pulled this knob on the fender out(and held it), clicked it down to first, then click it down again(the "gate" disappears when the knob is pulled), and then you had reverse. My old LT250 had a N-1-2... pattern, with a separate lever on the dash you'd pull while in N to engage reverse.

I've had several chinese "off brand" toys with the "endless" or "loop" gearbox, where the shift pattern was a circle. From N you could click down for first or up for fourth, and click up or down endlessly. Had a little 70cc pitbike I got for free like that, and I did go from 4th to N a couple times.


I can see the argument for accidentally getting N at speed. I used to always get N while coasting to a stop, and the downshifts with the clutch pulled would get more and more clunky as the gears went down. If I wanted to go back from N to second at say 20mph, I'd get a phenomenal bang from it.....so I don't do that anymore and only find N right as I'm coming to a stop.

I guess it's more common to have N at the bottom on semi-auto's because when you shift, the engine speed reacts instantly, I guess making the driver more aware of the gear, rather than if you just had the clutch pulled and stomping on the pedal.