wild bros EFI

[twistedmax]

Hey guys,

I need help,and its not often Ill admitt it , but here goes.
last year i bought a 89 max from a friend that had the bike 17 ,yes 17 years. many mods over the years . the last mod he did frustrated him so much he gave up on the max, it was wildbros EFI, he thought that he would get it bolt it on and go, after many calls to Bill ,and better then a year later.he still didnt have it where he wanted it,sold me the bike(CHEAP)

First thing i did ,find a tuner that would look at it , he got it running better.109 hp going in 128 when he was done but only 18 mpg and nobody could ride behind me the fumes were so bad.

found a more reputable tuner this year took it to him he got me 130 hp but 32 or so mpg's alls good.

time goes by, time for valve adjustment,take it to local shop have valves done, get bike back, doesnt want to wind up like it did, valves to tight? rode it any way a few hundred miles it seemed better.

time goes by,I get caught in big rain storm drive through puddle that covered front wheel.to days later bike wont run right.call Bill, explain whats up, he tells me must be loose wire.two days looking, testing,looking some more.unplug tps hit start fires up, called bill had him send new tps.installed bike seems fine.

time goes by,Ride to work one day bike running bad,throtle bodies out of sink.take it to tuner, sets bodies. Tells me I have problem with #1 cyl temp down 150 and bikes down 17 hp I take it home find bad wire , replaced all,found intermittent spark from #1 coil,changed coil , bike SEEMS to be better but when I pull #1 plug wire thers no change pull #3 just alittle change,pull 2 or 4 and it the change i would expect from all cylinders.
Also changed TCI just to rule it out. Is it poorly adjusted valves or Bad pickup? Anyone have an idea? Anyone interested In a EFI system?

 

[Thevmaxrider]

I sympathize with your woes concerning the EFI. Have had that system on my Max for 3 months and still having issues. First problem is that no one has any experience with the system so getting a tuner to even touch it was tough. Then the guy who finally did "tune" had it running so rich it was basically puking raw fuel out of the exhaust. Went back to a baseline MAP and it got better, but then the throttle bodies went out of synch, temperature changed, etc. and now right back where it started. Am installing an A/F ratio gauge I have and hoping that I can tune it in myself, Bill says it is easy to do, by just riding it around and having the gauge record my ratios at different throttle positions. Had my TPS screw up once and it left me stranded alongside the road until help arrived. Hooked up the computer and reset the TPS and the bike ran good again. For the money carbs with Morley's jet kit are hands down the easiest option for tuning, the jury is still out on the EFI but I am in too deep to go back now LOL.

 

[Buster Hymen]

Jim, in the above post, has the system that use to be on my bike. First off, YOU will have to become the tuner with this system. It is an open loop system, so every little weather change etc will affect it. I traveled with a small netbook computer so I could do changes on the fly. There's convenience and major inconveniences with this EFI system. "Jet" changes are fast and you can load new maps in seconds. However creating those maps and troubleshooting the system can become maddening. You really need something that can measure the A/F ratio of the bike, otherwise you will be pissing in the wind trying to tweak this. When you think in is lean, most of the time it is running really rich. You should learn to sync the TBs yourself, it is no different than doing carbs. Also your charging system has to running 100+% as this system love to suck power. Ask Jim what happened when he first bolted the system on and his charging system couldn't keep up. It created a lot of issues. I have the R1 R/R mod on mine, and with the EFI I was getting about 13.3 at the battery. Without the system, I now get 14.2! That EFI is a heavy drain on our feeble charging systems.
If you love to tune and tweak, then this system is a dream come true, because you can produce good HP numbers with it. However if you are not into tweeking, then this system can be your worst nightmare and Jim's comment about the Morely kit would be the way to go.

 

[one2dmax]

I wish I could find the time to modify the stock carbs with larger bores. I would bet I can make more power then the EFI easily with larger carb bodies. Maybe I need to do some callin!

Sean

 

[davidon]

Thanks for the heads up on this...can cross it off my wish list

 

[twistedmax]

I dont mind tweaking, infact with this system Im always tweaking but I do belive I now have a good base map, I just have questions about ,correction for cold starts,throtId tle responce percentages,and while its probaly not EFI related why does #1 cyl not seem to be producing any power?Id love to talk with someone that has this system.

 

[Thevmaxrider]

Jim, in the above post, has the system that use to be on my bike. First off, YOU will have to become the tuner with this system. It is an open loop system, so every little weather change etc will affect it. I traveled with a small netbook computer so I could do changes on the fly. There's convenience and major inconveniences with this EFI system. "Jet" changes are fast and you can load new maps in seconds. However creating those maps and troubleshooting the system can become maddening. You really need something that can measure the A/F ratio of the bike, otherwise you will be pissing in the wind trying to tweak this. When you think in is lean, most of the time it is running really rich. You should learn to sync the TBs yourself, it is no different than doing carbs. Also your charging system has to running 100+% as this system love to suck power. Ask Jim what happened when he first bolted the system on and his charging system couldn't keep up. It created a lot of issues. I have the R1 R/R mod on mine, and with the EFI I was getting about 13.3 at the battery. Without the system, I now get 14.2! That EFI is a heavy drain on our feeble charging systems.
If you love to tune and tweak, then this system is a dream come true, because you can produce good HP numbers with it. However if you are not into tweeking, then this system can be your worst nightmare and Jim's comment about the Morely kit would be the way to go.

+1 to all of these things. I am learning as I go and although frustrating I am sure that in the end I will get a handle on it. Am getting my notebook computer changed to a windows based operating system so I can carry it around and make changes on the fly while on a ride. I think the first and most important is to make sure that when tuning your throttle bodies are in synch. If they are out any tuning you do is null and void once you do synch them. I am getting ready to replace my battery as it is weak which will also cause problems. The system has a low voltage compensation that will throw your tune off as well. Someday when I am rich I will get the TEMS (Totall Engine Management System) which will make it much less susceptible to changes in temp etc. Like Buster said, if you like tweaking and tuning this system is fun. If you want plug and play stick with carbs and a Morley jet kit.

 

[one2dmax]

Maybe a test of that cylinder (and the others) to see what your cranking compression is.

Sean

 

[twistedmax]

Thank you,but loss due to what ,bad ring,poorly adjusted valves,its an 86 motor could it be the pick up for #1 & #3 not providing enough spark. might it have to due with the extra stresss the EFI puts on the charging system.I at a loss.:ummm:

 

[one2dmax]

You may have washed the rings of oil with the excessive fuel. This will create loss of lubrication and very quick ring wear.

Sean

 

[Buster Hymen]

I dont mind tweaking, infact with this system Im always tweaking but I do belive I now have a good base map, I just have questions about ,correction for cold starts,throtId tle responce percentages,and while its probaly not EFI related why does #1 cyl not seem to be producing any power?Id love to talk with someone that has this system.

Cold start and throttle response etc are all done through the software. Do you have the software that came with the system? It is where all the programming for all those parameters are . The software is excellent and you can do tuning down to really minute levels... however this can also cause problems! LOL.
As for the #1 cylinder. Go through the basic checks of spark, fuel, compression etc. You might want to start a new thread for this problem so people don't skip over it.

 

[twistedmax]

Yes I have the software,Ive become well aquantied with it over the last year.Im looking for someone who might know what extra percentage off fuel for cold start, if you know the software you know what i mean,the correction table percentage changes every 5 degrees celcius untill the bikes up to temp.Bill couldnt adress this as his temp doesnt get as low as what i ride in here in new england.Ive gone from his 44% down to 17% and think its going to work.

could running the bike a year @18 mpg's have dammaged the rings?

 

[one2dmax]

Yes, depending on how much raw fuel was being dumped into the cylinders that wasn't mixing properly. We've seen blown engines with ring failures with a few thousand miles on them. The engine is pretty durable in general but they aren't nearly as bullet proof as modern sportbike stuff is.

A compression test is fairly easy to do. If you have more then 10% variation from highest to lowest cylinder then you may have wear. The manual describes the test procedure and what to look for. A low cylinder can be rechecked by adding some light oil or fluid into the cylinder and see if the compression increases dramatically. If so it's almost a sure sign that it's got worn rings.

Did you replace the spark plug?? Even a new plug can be bad.

We use a water bottle and squirt the exhaust tubing to see how quickly the cylinder evaporates it. A cylinder out of sync or not firing well runs cooler and won't evaporate the water quickly. A fancier tool is a radiant heat measuring gun.

You could easily have a sync problem too.
Sean

 

[satariel666]

Buster mentioned that those bodies are 45mm. To biiiiig imo.
That why modern sport bikes use 2 butterfilies per one body.

Then bigger throttle body then more power you can get but thats inperfect theory. Those days we have 42mm bodies in 600cc engines and its no way to feed that small engine propertly with overdosed bodies.
Its simply to much air when you're twisting the throttle.

Another butterfilies controled by EMS prevent engine from to get suffer with overdosed air till higher rpms.
With one butterly you need much much fuel like somoeone mentioned that much that you can see it leaking from exhaust pipes.

Simply, supplementing engine with to much fuel with already air overdosed is not a good idea.

Several options here witch the best one will be change throttle bodies to smaller ID or install another set of butterfilies but control them may propertly may be a problem.

Another idea is to fabricate some smaller ID stacks but tis just an theory.

Or simple get big bored with lagrer cams

 

[Buster Hymen]

Buster mentioned that those bodies are 45mm. To biiiiig imo.
That why modern sport bikes use 2 butterfilies per one body.

The one I had was 45mm and was too big for my motor. I'm assuming the OP has the 42mm one for a stock size motor.

 

[twistedmax]

correct there 42's

 

[satariel666]

The one I had was 45mm and was too big for my motor. I'm assuming the OP has the 42mm one for a stock size motor.

Hmm, maybe 42 is to big also? :ummm:
Dunno...i'll plan to use throttle bodes with with 40mm at cyl inlet.