2nd gear wobble @ 40-50mph????

[gamorg02]

So i did the steering head bearings fix, and my decel wobble basically curred itself...

so i was riding today and took my left hand off to itch my ass (or something i don't remember) and there was the decel wobble (much less than before though) again..

so i spent the next 10 miles trying to reproduce and couldn't and i finally figured out it seems like i still have a wobble when i'm engine decelling, ONLY in 2ND GEAR, from ~50 to ~40 sometimes (doesn't seem to happen every time)...

is there anything else i can check? or why this only happens, sometimes, in 2nd gear? :ummm:

seems odd the higher engine vibrations due to the higher RPMs at that speed would cause anything. maybe check my swingarm bolt (haven't done that before either tho) so any advice would be great!

thanks guys..

 

[naughtyG]

i haven't checked mine yet either, but I've been repeatedly told to also check the swingarm bearings - might b good for you to do that too..

 

[mnmax]

I dont know if any of this can be figured out. i will get to the low speed wobble, starting my story from the begining

I had a 99' that i bought new, it had a high speed wobble at 95mph, i put in new progessive fork springs, fork brace and ME880 tires, 170 in rear.

This helped, my wobble until i hit 115mph.

with wife on back i didnt wobble before or after mods, i could do 135 no prob.

I went through all bearings, steering head, pivot,shaft and tightned everything up no help there.

Eventually I bought 18" RCwheels, that resolved my high speed wobble.

OK now heres the weird part.

I ended up buying a 2000 with a 1500 motor, 6100 miles on bike. It had a ME Lasertec in the front and a Avon venom on rear, both stock sizes, bike was stable as hell.

I brought both my bike to Wayne pruett, for those of you who know him. I wanted to pull off my parts(flatslides and RCwheels) from my 99 and put them on the new 2000/1500cc and sell the 99 as stock.

So instead of bringing over the original stock wheels for the 99 i had wayne take the stock wheels from the 2000 and put them on the old 99, and the RC's from the 99 onto the new 2000, ya follow.

My 99 that had a high speed wobble with its original stock rims ME 880 170 rear, now fitted with the stock wheels from the 2000 no longer has a high speed wobble it now has a low speed decel wobble.

explain that

 

[gamorg02]

i haven't checked mine yet either, but I've been repeatedly told to also check the swingarm bearings - might b good for you to do that too..

bearings or the bolts?

i doubt my bearings are bad, theres only 3k miles on the bike!

i think i should check the bolts.. digging into the haynes now..

 

[mnmax]

bearings or the bolts?

i doubt my bearings are bad, theres only 3k miles on the bike!

i think i should check the bolts.. digging into the haynes now..

I was told that bearings could actually be bad no matter the milage.

Frame could be out of align from the factory.

could be tires, bearings, frame, shaft?????

 

[gamorg02]

I was told that bearings could actually be bad no matter the milage.

Frame could be out of align from the factory.

could be tires, bearings, frame, shaft?????

hah well until i get into it too far i'll def check the bolts with the swingarm.. its just hard to believe only in 2nd gear i see the issue...

for people that have tightend up the swingarm bolts.. just a quick overview, see if i'm correct...

loosen lockwasher on left side and loosen the bolt slightly. then tighten down to 100 Nm..
left side done.

loosen right side nut. the bolt should only apparently be 6Nm so thats like barely over hand tight (don't have a gague for that low). i'm thinking its like hand tight then a 1/5 turn... then i tlooks like the big problem will be holding the bolt (with an allen key or something) while i put the nut back on tight enough with a cresent wrench it looks like b/c i don't have a 27mm open end, where it wont spin the bolt (going by the marks already on it) once its tight enough i'll have to torque down the nut...

does that sound right?

 

[sandy klock]

I bought a max that had been wrecked (fatal) with 12mi on odometer. I was thinking first time he hit v-boost. His best friend bought from insurance co. Repaired sold to me. Always had a high speed head shake. I did what I thought was everything. Nothing cured it. wore the oem back tire out, replaced with same exact thing(new). Shake was gone, never to shake again, until wore that back tire out, This time it was weave to shake to crash. If you can imagine a dog shaking its head, Now think of a dog with a BIG tail wagging, shaking the head, High speed wobble is tail, low speed is head, Theoreticially sandy

 

[naughtyG]

It's all such a mystery..

I replaced my front bearings and adjusted them, and put new tires on (Shinko 110 & 170). Fixed a couple of problems both at the front and the back wheels (parts missing!), but haven't checked the swingarm bearings yet. Bike also has Progressive springs and 15w oil in front, and I put brand new Progressive 13" 440s at the back.

When I first got the bike it had a scary wobble at 115mph. After doing the Furbur fix it went up to 125mph and got scarier. New tires made no difference. New front bearings helped a lot, but not enough for me to really feel confident at 135.

When I first did the bearings and tires, I also swapped the 12.5" (old Progressive?) shocks the bike had on with a set of OEM 13" shocks, and that made things a LOT worse. Went straight back to the 12.5's and it helped a little.

After a while I noticed a deceleration wobble at 45 mph if I let go of the bars. Tihtening the front bearings fixed it. I can now let go and it won't wobble, but if I give it a quick nudge it will still do - I have a feeling that may be the thread design on the Shinko.

I've gone fast again a few times, but I never feel right, as above 115 mph even though it's now pretty solid in a straight line, I feel that the slightest bump in the road will send it off again. I've experienced a few pants-shitting wobbles before I did my front bearings when I really thought I was a goner, and I don't miss that feeling at all. 'Oh shit oh shit oh shit fuck fuck phew I survived' Anyone remembers that one?

The one thing that still bothers me a lot is whenever changing lanes or going over cat's eyes, any kind of bumps, man holes, painted lines - you name it, the bike 'twinges' in a weird way, and that is something I have never experienced on any bike but the Max.

I sure would love to ride one of your Maxes that are really 'solid' to see if it feels different.. I will look at the swingarm bearings first, maybe look at solid mounts or frame braces eventually, can't afford new wheels I know that..

 

[gamorg02]

thanks for all the replies guys...

can anyone verify if my procedure for tightening up the nuts/bolts is correct?

 

[vmax190]

i had my front wheel off to replace the front fender, after putting wheel back on, my terrible shake at 40mph is gone?????????:ummm:

 

[jfeagins]

I bought a max that had been wrecked (fatal) with 12mi on odometer. I was thinking first time he hit v-boost. His best friend bought from insurance co. Repaired sold to me. Always had a high speed head shake. I did what I thought was everything. Nothing cured it. wore the oem back tire out, replaced with same exact thing(new). Shake was gone, never to shake again, until wore that back tire out, This time it was weave to shake to crash. If you can imagine a dog shaking its head, Now think of a dog with a BIG tail wagging, shaking the head, High speed wobble is tail, low speed is head, Theoreticially sandy

This has been my exact experience for the past 24+ years and over 22 back tires. I've posted off and on about how important the balance of the rear tire/wheel combination can be. Doesn't seem too many share this notion with me - until now I see at least one other Max rider has had, and noticed, the same correlation of these two important components.

I think proper adj. of front end bearings and components are essential to a good riding experience and to surviving a high speed wobble, but I'll bet for the most part, most, if not nearly all, high speed wobbles really begin near the back of the bike and amplify their way forward. Most of the aftermarket 'fixes' and/or modifications are merely putting a bandaid over the wound without really addressing the true cause of its existence.

Just my opinion.

 

[rumblethump]

I agree,130+ & slow a little ,maybe a little rough pavement.
The rear shifts,starts the shake & I need clean underwear again.

This has been my exact experience for the past
24+ years and over 22 back tires. I've posted off and on about how important the balance of the rear tire/wheel combination can be. Doesn't seem too many share this notion with me - until now I see at least one other Max rider has had, and noticed, the same correlation of these two important components.

I think proper adj. of front end bearings and components are essential to a good riding experience and to surviving a high speed wobble, but I'll bet for the most part, most, if not nearly all, high speed wobbles really begin near the back of the bike and amplify their way forward. Most of the aftermarket 'fixes' and/or modifications are merely putting a bandaid over the wound without really addressing the true cause of its existence.

Just my opinion.

 

[gamorg02]

This has been my exact experience for the past 24+ years and over 22 back tires. I've posted off and on about how important the balance of the rear tire/wheel combination can be. Doesn't seem too many share this notion with me - until now I see at least one other Max rider has had, and noticed, the same correlation of these two important components.

I think proper adj. of front end bearings and components are essential to a good riding experience and to surviving a high speed wobble, but I'll bet for the most part, most, if not nearly all, high speed wobbles really begin near the back of the bike and amplify their way forward. Most of the aftermarket 'fixes' and/or modifications are merely putting a bandaid over the wound without really addressing the true cause of its existence.

Just my opinion.

jfeagins...

have you tightened your swingarm bolts before?? Just looking if my procedure from before sounds about right...

 

[jfeagins]

jfeagins...

have you tightened your swingarm bolts before?? Just looking if my procedure from before sounds about right...

I believe my swingarm is fine. I said a new tire returns the bike to 100% straight line EVERY time. Worn tread on the rear = wobbles in my front end, usually up around 125mph, though I've experienced it at only 110mph on a tire or two.

I've even rid the bike of the wobbles by taking a half worn rear tire off and gotten it re-spin balanced. Nothing more than that: a re-balance and put the same tire back on to cure the shakes.

I have always stuck to the OEM Dunlop tread though cause it looks like Vmax only tread and that is the way I am. I suppose I might have had better luck over the years and miles by going to a better quality tire. Who knows?

 

[gamorg02]

I believe my swingarm is fine. I said a new tire returns the bike to 100% straight line EVERY time. Worn tread on the rear = wobbles in my front end, usually up around 125mph, though I've experienced it at only 110mph on a tire or two.

I've even rid the bike of the wobbles by taking a half worn rear tire off and gotten it re-spin balanced. Nothing more than that: a re-balance and put the same tire back on to cure the shakes.

I have always stuck to the OEM Dunlop tread though cause it looks like Vmax only tread and that is the way I am. I suppose I might have had better luck over the years and miles by going to a better quality tire. Who knows?

gotcha.. both my tires only have about 800 miles on them so i know they're not worn or anything...

 

[naughtyG]

Might have something here - when my rear Shinko was brand new it felt a little better, and after squaring off a bit over the last 4000miles, high speed wobble got a bit worse. But I still need to check my swingarm bearing and torque.

 

[jfeagins]

gotcha.. both my tires only have about 800 miles on them so i know they're not worn or anything...

???? Got me????

Don't be so quick to decide.

Newness of the tire might not be the key here, but the condition of said tire and/or it's BALANCE may make all the difference in the world.

I had one Dunlop that went south on me while virtually brand new. When on the center stand and the bike running in gear, I could actually see the side to side run-out of that tire. My rim was true, but the tire had error. Even when RE-BALANCED, that tire created a small amount of head shake. After I wore it out at lower burnout speeds (most of my miles back then were on the boulevard) and put another on (SPIN BALANCED), I was good to go back to 5th gear red-line again with ZERO wobble.

I'm sure not saying that a rear tire is the only thing to ever cause high speed wobbles, but it is certainly one of the easiest things to check out and/or fix if you know anyone with a spin balancer for bike wheels. (I've seen some of the fancy Stealerships that don't own a spin balancing machine)

I repeat: Re-balancing or installing a new rear tire that was properly spin balanced has always cured any high speed wobbles for me when my Max wanted to start that sort of crap.

:eusa_dance:

 

[naughtyG]

I repeat: Re-balancing or installing a new rear tire that was properly spin balanced has always cured any high speed wobbles for me when my Max wanted to start that sort of crap.

:eusa_dance:

Interesting. my Shinko looks and feels fine when spinning it on the center stand. I'm also using the dyna beads (2 oz) for balancing now. I might add a third ounce to see if that helps. Also it does have a repair, as I got a flat from a big screw when the tire was almost new. Wonder if that exacerbates the problem..

 

[jfeagins]

I think for the most part, FOR ME, was that I'd end up with the teeniest, weeniest of side to side run out on the tire as I burned it off around town. Maybe add the miserable, pot holed, brick streets I used to navigate, and I'd say I may have seriously disturbed more than one cord in more than one tire over the years.

Even a small amount of runout could cause serious problems at the front of the bike by the time it is amplified forward through the frame. ???

I don't know all the whys of it. I just know that it always fixed it for me. I use the example of trying to affix a heavy wheel to a pencil for a shaft, giving it a spin and trying to lean the pencil from side to side. The centrifugal balance of the spinning wheel will fight your trying to move the pencil shaft and so vice versa could apply. If you have a heavy wheel with a side to side runout, you will feel it in your hands as the wheel spins.

Give your rear wheel/tire combo a tiny run out, spin it fast, and amplify it forward several inches. That,in itself,is enough to make the front end WANT to wobble, but add to that a bad, or incorrectly tightened head bearing, or front wheel bearing, and you could get disaster.

I'm just saying.........???:confused2::confused2::confused2:

 

[gamorg02]

thanks guys.. i'll def throw the bike up on the center stand and take a look at the tire. i'm also going to try tightening the bolts at some point. but need a smaller torque wrench/screwdriver