:eusa_dance: :biglaugh: 
unk:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=oumzuQPCtlE
I think I want a Chrysler.
unk:http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=oumzuQPCtlE
I think I want a Chrysler.
Clint Eastwood should be in the Whitehouse.
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PDWeyand
Well-Known Member
Well if he ran for office, I might vote for him. He can't do any worst than the fools that have in office for the last 10 years. I do not think that I would buy Chrysler or a GM after they went to the government begging for help from their mismanagement. I think it is funny that it was Chrysler's second time to ask for help. I know there are those that bleed for these companies and we could not let them fail when everything was going to pot. But when the government handed out all that money to help the banks, that was a huge mistake too. I was lucky I paid as I go and had no credit problems. But I also never got in over my head with debt either. I have a key ring tag that I have had for years it says "Forget the Joneses; I can't keep up with the Simpsons" I know everyone wants the new toys and that's fine if you can pay for it.
Rusty McNeil
Well-Known Member
Keeping up with the Joneses'....
Also Known As...
Buying shit you don''t need, with money you don't have, to impress people who don't care...
Dirty Harry for prez....So ya think yer lucky?..........Well do ya Punk!!!:rofl_200:
PDWeyand
Well-Known Member
Their going to, they have 5 years or more to repay it. And if I remember correctly it was to be paid back in steps. You now can call General Motors, Government Motors
06VMAXIMUS
Well-Known Member
Hey if Ronald Regan made it to President, than why not Clint Eastwood? Hell, I'd vote for him in a heartbeat!
Having gone to school and college in MI and being a supporter of manufacturing prowess in the USA, and fiscal responsibility, whether for individuals, businesses, or governments, I say we need to keep our manufacturing capabilities.
The money that went to the companies in Detroit who kept their companies afloat and are paying back or have paid back the federal investments has been worth the money spent. People who say, "the heck with them!" have no-idea of the ripple effect on the nation's economy if GM and Chryslet were allowed to fail. Ford didn't ask for a bailout, they are doing OK, good for them.
In a global economy, esteemed US companies are in receivership or bankruptcy (Americam Airlines, Kodak) while others are simply running-away from production in the USA and heavily investing in mainland China (General Electric liquidating its WI medical imaging plants, 115 years of made-in-the-USA history, for a multi-billion dollar China plant schedule where they intend to grow their production capacity by 100% in five years! http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-...-x-ray-base-to-china-no-job-cuts-planned.html)
So, say what you want about Detroit, I support their efforts to reinvest in this country and not China.
The money that went to the companies in Detroit who kept their companies afloat and are paying back or have paid back the federal investments has been worth the money spent. People who say, "the heck with them!" have no-idea of the ripple effect on the nation's economy if GM and Chryslet were allowed to fail. Ford didn't ask for a bailout, they are doing OK, good for them.
In a global economy, esteemed US companies are in receivership or bankruptcy (Americam Airlines, Kodak) while others are simply running-away from production in the USA and heavily investing in mainland China (General Electric liquidating its WI medical imaging plants, 115 years of made-in-the-USA history, for a multi-billion dollar China plant schedule where they intend to grow their production capacity by 100% in five years! http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-...-x-ray-base-to-china-no-job-cuts-planned.html)
So, say what you want about Detroit, I support their efforts to reinvest in this country and not China.
MtnMax/Magniac
Well-Known Member
I dunno, seemed to me like the only thing missing from that spiel was a face shot of Obama at the end, saying "I'm Barack Obama, and I approve this ad." Have to admit, though, they got the right guy to do it.
I believe GM paid back their borrowed funds. They had enough funds to loan all the others just as much money. It wasn't about needing to borrow it though. It was offered and they took them up on the offer.
Sean
Sean
The Gov't got a 60% stake in the 'new' GM shares after bankruptcy and would need to sell it for about $50 per share to break even (share price was $26.70 at today's close). I believe they have sold some at a loss and will probably not recoup all the money spent on the bailout. The Gov't still has about $25 billion outstanding against GM that hasn't been 'paid' back.
Im not sure about the Chrysler bailout, but I would reckon its about at the same where the Gov't will probably take a loss.
When I was looking for a new car I noticed that the GM offerings we were interested in were made in either Mexico or Canada. Bought a Mazda 6 made in Flat Rock MI by union folk.
25 billion.......... that's equal to 25000 millionaires!! But their gonna pay it back? Also search the internet for the TARP recipients peruse the list and see if you can find the double or triple dippers. GM's financial arm, (GMAC) was busy financing fuckin Escalades for "undocumented workers" and running radio and TV commercials telling us if we weren't driving one of these pearl white pieces of shit that we were "lesser drivers". Then when they FAILED they ran down and filed for bank status so they could go to the gubment watering hole and recieve their check. There was also "cash for clunkers" to backfeed them cocksuckers. That's alright though cause when King Obama fires up the printing presses again we'll all be flush with cash. I think I'll wallpaper the dining room first.
Don't forget this is the second time the Dodge boys got their palms greased.
Don't forget this is the second time the Dodge boys got their palms greased.
PDWeyand
Well-Known Member
I agree that we could not let them fail. The ripple effect would have kill the country. I do not have to be happy about it. I understand the bottom line to any company is their bottom. I think it should be a crime to close a plant and move it to another country just for company to make more profits. There has been a massive amounts of company's moving plants and jobs to other country's for years and we are seeing the effect of that lost now. The lack of manufacturing jobs and wages is hurting.
MtnMax/Magniac
Well-Known Member
I believe heard Tom Sullivan today say that Chrysler still owes about 1.8 billion.
Bloody Aussie!
Well at least that's only equal to 1800 millionaires. I listen to Tom Sullivan almost every day, but I missed him today. Would've been best to have let them fail and reorganize or be bought up. Just like a forest full of diseased trees, nature burns them down and they come back healthy. This country will never come back as we know it without manufacturing, but picking winners and losers ain't gonna work. Just look at the class warfare all this has created. One guy (non-union) loses his job, his house, and his retirement savings and then gets taxed through inflation and "quantitve easing" to pay for another guy (union) to keep his job, house, pension, and all the bennies. Gotta build it back from the bottom up, not the other way around. If they would've let GM fail there would have been so many small manufacturers filling orders for parts and small shops doing repairs and an employee for every one of them - all happening naturally in the free market. Remember gubment intervention is what got us into this to begin with.
Rusty McNeil
Well-Known Member
+1
Let the market do what it does.
The bailout cost 1,000,000 per job that it saved.....kind of not very cost effective.....
MtnMax/Magniac
Well-Known Member
What has BO done yet that was useful AND effective?
I wish someone from MI would post-up and tell about the job-order shops in the Detroit area and elsewhere who have already gone belly-up with the manufacturing slowdown in Detroit.
There are hundreds of suppliers who have already died because of how things are or were. Years ago GM brought in a Spanish guy (Jose Ignacio Lopez de Arriortua) who was the parts director and he drove such hard bargains on supplier pricing that he was hated by the jobbers whose already thin margins were cut even more. he became a hated man. GM eventually saw they were losing generations-old suppliers and fired him.
In Detroit there were machine shops just folding and not bothering to liquidate because there were so-many of them, entire factories were sold for scrap for their machine tool inventories.
One of my high-school acquaintances owns a machine shop and has been able to hang-on but it is a tough go.
I was going to object to an anti-union post but I know that nothing I post would change that person's view. I have been an AFL-CIO member in one or another job capacity since my early 20's. I retired from one due to contractural benefits negotiated while I was on the job, or before I was hired. Every first of the month, I say my prayers for being in that category. We make choices in life, I chose to believe in the power of organized labor several times and it has paid-off for me. If someone chose not to follow that path, don't disparage those who did. We didn't destroy the economic viability of the country regardless of that 'talking points' your favorite conservative commentator on your choice of medium delivers to you.
Simply-put, the GOP is using the opportunity of the economy to remove benefits from workers and to deny them the ability to participate in collective bargaining. "If I got screwed, I'm going to see that you do too!" That is the mood of some workers today. What sort of selfish behavior is that? Look what happened in WI, home to our beloved Harley Davidson. A similar movement is in IN now."Preventing" collective bargaining by public-sector employees? How is that democratic? Where is the protection to the worker? As a firefighter/paramedic I am prevented from striking nor would I. because under the NLRB rules and regulations and the State of FL statutes as-adopted, we are prohibited from striking. In-return for that we have been able to acquire and secure something called binding arbitration which uses a legal process to settle terms of employment which are disputed. And yes, this is all a part of 'collective bargaining.'
Reading all the invective and hatred of those who have lost jobs towards those who likely have been able to hold onto theirs is unbelievable. Do you hear of CEO's and management surrendering their huge bonuses in corporations where their compensation packages with salaries, stock options, and benefits are hundreds if not thousands of times greater than the average annual pay of their workers? And, why? Because they closed their manufacturing plants across the USA so they could move manufacturing to Asia, to gain short-term inflation of stock prices, so they can then liquidate their shares and look for the next company to strip for assets? Those of you who like to google, research 'Chainsaw' Al Dunlap and Frank Lorenzo and find-out why when these types of people enter an organization, the employees grab what they can and run before their decades of employment are liquidated by these corporate pirates.
How bad is it? Frank Lorenzo, owner of Texas Air, bought Eastern Airlines when it was experiencing fiscal difficulties. If you research Eastern Airlines, you will see some true American heroes were at the helm at one time of another, including Eddie Rickenbacker (if you don't know your WW I history, his accomplishments then will amaze you) and Frank Borman, one of our astronauts, which most of you probably recognize.
When Lorenzo got onto one of his own airlines, in the middle of labor strife involving skilled trades unions and pilots, the pilot refused to fly Frank Lorenzo and his cadre of handlers, he simply refused to pull-away from the gate. How-gutsy is that?
In one of my graduate school finance classes, we had a case-history of Lorenzo and his Texas Air takeovers. If you look at the list of airlines he was involved with, you will probably have flown on several of them if you are older. When he took-over Eastern Airlines, he immediately sold to Texas Air the "System One" reservations system which eastern operated, and who leased computer space and operations to other airlines. The price? One "ceremonial" dollar! The value to the business of Eastern, based on its revenue generation, the hardware, software, and operations? One billion dollars!
I could offer more, but I am not going to change minds based on what I write here, but when I read the criticism of organized labor (O.L.) I want to rebut it. Now like any organization, I am not saying 'everything O.L. does is great,' but my life and the lives of my family members have been very positively affected by organized labor.
Givebacks by members of O.L. have been occurring across the country, but some people want to end O.L. altogether. Now, that's "class warfare!"
There are hundreds of suppliers who have already died because of how things are or were. Years ago GM brought in a Spanish guy (Jose Ignacio Lopez de Arriortua) who was the parts director and he drove such hard bargains on supplier pricing that he was hated by the jobbers whose already thin margins were cut even more. he became a hated man. GM eventually saw they were losing generations-old suppliers and fired him.
In Detroit there were machine shops just folding and not bothering to liquidate because there were so-many of them, entire factories were sold for scrap for their machine tool inventories.
One of my high-school acquaintances owns a machine shop and has been able to hang-on but it is a tough go.
I was going to object to an anti-union post but I know that nothing I post would change that person's view. I have been an AFL-CIO member in one or another job capacity since my early 20's. I retired from one due to contractural benefits negotiated while I was on the job, or before I was hired. Every first of the month, I say my prayers for being in that category. We make choices in life, I chose to believe in the power of organized labor several times and it has paid-off for me. If someone chose not to follow that path, don't disparage those who did. We didn't destroy the economic viability of the country regardless of that 'talking points' your favorite conservative commentator on your choice of medium delivers to you.
Simply-put, the GOP is using the opportunity of the economy to remove benefits from workers and to deny them the ability to participate in collective bargaining. "If I got screwed, I'm going to see that you do too!" That is the mood of some workers today. What sort of selfish behavior is that? Look what happened in WI, home to our beloved Harley Davidson. A similar movement is in IN now."Preventing" collective bargaining by public-sector employees? How is that democratic? Where is the protection to the worker? As a firefighter/paramedic I am prevented from striking nor would I. because under the NLRB rules and regulations and the State of FL statutes as-adopted, we are prohibited from striking. In-return for that we have been able to acquire and secure something called binding arbitration which uses a legal process to settle terms of employment which are disputed. And yes, this is all a part of 'collective bargaining.'
Reading all the invective and hatred of those who have lost jobs towards those who likely have been able to hold onto theirs is unbelievable. Do you hear of CEO's and management surrendering their huge bonuses in corporations where their compensation packages with salaries, stock options, and benefits are hundreds if not thousands of times greater than the average annual pay of their workers? And, why? Because they closed their manufacturing plants across the USA so they could move manufacturing to Asia, to gain short-term inflation of stock prices, so they can then liquidate their shares and look for the next company to strip for assets? Those of you who like to google, research 'Chainsaw' Al Dunlap and Frank Lorenzo and find-out why when these types of people enter an organization, the employees grab what they can and run before their decades of employment are liquidated by these corporate pirates.
How bad is it? Frank Lorenzo, owner of Texas Air, bought Eastern Airlines when it was experiencing fiscal difficulties. If you research Eastern Airlines, you will see some true American heroes were at the helm at one time of another, including Eddie Rickenbacker (if you don't know your WW I history, his accomplishments then will amaze you) and Frank Borman, one of our astronauts, which most of you probably recognize.
When Lorenzo got onto one of his own airlines, in the middle of labor strife involving skilled trades unions and pilots, the pilot refused to fly Frank Lorenzo and his cadre of handlers, he simply refused to pull-away from the gate. How-gutsy is that?
In one of my graduate school finance classes, we had a case-history of Lorenzo and his Texas Air takeovers. If you look at the list of airlines he was involved with, you will probably have flown on several of them if you are older. When he took-over Eastern Airlines, he immediately sold to Texas Air the "System One" reservations system which eastern operated, and who leased computer space and operations to other airlines. The price? One "ceremonial" dollar! The value to the business of Eastern, based on its revenue generation, the hardware, software, and operations? One billion dollars!
I could offer more, but I am not going to change minds based on what I write here, but when I read the criticism of organized labor (O.L.) I want to rebut it. Now like any organization, I am not saying 'everything O.L. does is great,' but my life and the lives of my family members have been very positively affected by organized labor.
Givebacks by members of O.L. have been occurring across the country, but some people want to end O.L. altogether. Now, that's "class warfare!"
