Electrical problem...no sparky

[wheeliepup]

I am new to this forum. I just bought a 85 V Max last week with carb and electrical problems. My plan is to bring life back into this baby and want to tackle what I think is the biggest problem first?namely the electrical. Presently, the carbs are off and I discovered that the previous owner installed a new Dyna 3000 TCI along with four new Dyna ignition coils. I never asked why he changed the ignition system but I suspect he probably had problems with it. After I inspected his installation job, I believe he compounded the ignition problems with loose electrical connectors and splices. After going over the wiring and using solder instead of crimp splices, I tested the ignition system and there is still No Spark! Engine cranks over just fine so the kickstand, clutch, neutral safety circuit is correct, (will the starter even crank if this circuit is open?)
I am asking for some advice from experienced V Maxers who may have encountered this problem. My biggest concern is throwing money at it and not fixing it(electrical parts are expensive and non returnable). Here is what I have done so far?
Charged Battery
Re-soldered loose and broken splices
Cleaned battery ground to engine and frame
Cleaned and inspected every electrical connector with contact cleaner and Dielectric grease
Ohmed out the four ignition coils both primary and secondary ? OK
Ohmed out the magnetic ignition pick ups ? OK
Ohmed out the plug wires and caps ? OK
The only other suspect is the CDI or ignition control unit . Is there a way to test these units They don?t come cheap and I certainly do not want to buy an untested or damaged one off eBay for $200 just to confirm that it was or wasn?t the problem. Does anyone have any suggestions?I?ll buy you a beer!!
Wheeliepup

 

[90maxman]

i thought you said it has a new dyna 3000 ?

 

[wheeliepup]

Yes, it came with a new Dyna 3000 installed yet it is not running, and there is no spark. I do not have the originals.

 

[Buster Hymen]

It's too bad the PO changed out the TCI and the original coils as this opens up a whole bunch of issues that it could be. Did it ever run after the change out or do you know? One possibility is to wait for Sean to get back from his honeymoon. He does a borrow program where if you suspect a bad part, he will send you one and if it fixes it, you pay him for it.

 

[wheeliepup]

Hi Buster,

You see the dilemma I'm faced...but I always enjoy challenges. I forgot to mention that the plugs that were in the bike when I bought it are brand new right out of the package shiny. The seller told me that it was running, then let it sit too long. Battery dead and gas went bad and he basically gave up on it! I have a good bit of experience wrenching so I am certain I can get it running again. I just need to invest a little time and gray matter and avoid throwing money at it. I think I will follow your suggestion and email Sean about his borrow program. I will gladly pay for a part knowing it will remedy the problem. Other than that, thats for your suggestion...I'll keep you updated on my progress.

 

[wheeliepup]

After digging into the electrical schematic, I found a circuit that disables the ignition, namely the side stand relay. At first I thought that this relay disables the starter circuit like the neutral switch and the clutch switch. I removed the relay, and was able to pry it apart. When I benched it, the contacts would not open up enough to complete the circuit. A shot of electrical cleaner freed it up, snapped the relay cover back on, and to paraphrase a line from the late and famous Jackie Gleason "And Away We Go!!" Very sweet!!!

 

[Buster Hymen]

Excellent!!! unk: Now enjoy your ride! :rocket bike:

 

[tugla]

After digging into the electrical schematic, I found a circuit that disables the ignition, namely the side stand relay. At first I thought that this relay disables the starter circuit like the neutral switch and the clutch switch. I removed the relay, and was able to pry it apart. When I benched it, the contacts would not open up enough to complete the circuit. A shot of electrical cleaner freed it up, snapped the relay cover back on, and to paraphrase a line from the late and famous Jackie Gleason "And Away We Go!!" Very sweet!!!

good job man well done unk:

 

[PATMAX]

So I too had the no sparky last week.. Tried all the usual suspects eg, CDI, plugs, fuel, carb chains etc. My man Manny S. told me about a little six wired relay under the left neck cover and electronics mounting plate. This little guy has a copper coil inside that activates a micro switch. These are seemingly hidden but are easily contaminated or compromised by water intrusion. You turn the key on and should feel it click inside. If you notice, one of the leads is red with a white tracer stripe which by no coincidence is the same to all four coils! Most of these relays are sealed but some are not. My 1990 was still sealed but the connector was dirty and corroded. Once clean, she fired on the first crank! This also gave me a good chance to clean up the P.O.s. Wiring and detaled inaccessible areas while I had thinks apart. Hope this helps someone else in the future. Patmax

 

[gamorg02]

thats really good info man. i know mike from springfield was having a similar issue. can u take a picture of it?

 

[naughtyG]

It's the cut-out relay. It's right behind the left scoop, behind the fuel pump relay once you remove the plastic relays holder. It's about a square inch in size, and is held in a rubber sleeve attached to the bottom left corner of the TCI bracket - you can't miss it.

 

[gamorg02]

hey mike, if ur out there, take a look at that!

 

[95spfldmax]

hey mike, if ur out there, take a look at that!

I'm on it.....Thanks for the heads-up Garrett.

FYI....With exception to "the incident" a couple weeks back my problem for years is a hot idle stumble. But I will check this relay out and inspect the other components while in there too. I still need to look at that diode pack that was found to give problems when wet from another thread as well. Thanks again.

 

[fieldmax]

After digging into the electrical schematic, I found a circuit that disables the ignition, namely the side stand relay. At first I thought that this relay disables the starter circuit like the neutral switch and the clutch switch. I removed the relay, and was able to pry it apart. When I benched it, the contacts would not open up enough to complete the circuit. A shot of electrical cleaner freed it up, snapped the relay cover back on, and to paraphrase a line from the late and famous Jackie Gleason "And Away We Go!!" Very sweet!!!

I also have an issue with no spark. The bike starts and runs great for a few blocks then totally dies. The headline is still strong and all the lights still work including neutral. It cranks just great but won't offer to start.
I had thought gas but I pushed it home and it still wouldn't start so I hooked up a spark plug to one of the wires and no spark at all.
I let it cool down a few hours and then it sparked just fine.
Hooked up the wire and it started and ran just great....for a few blocks then the same thing.
When I looked at the schematics, just like you I saw the side stand relay and figured ahah! But according to the schematic the "run" state of the relay is the same as the relay being out of the circuit. So I let the bike cool and pulled the relay plug loose and the bike started up and ran just fine, for a few blocks then wham...dead again and no spark. But that relay is not causing this because it's not even on the bike.

 

[satariel666]

Check you pickup coil, thats the problem in about 99% cases.
There're crimps on picup wires near the left footpeg, check there too.

 

[fieldmax]

OK. I checked the manual and the '93 and on like mine has one coil. Black and orange wire. I found the connector under the seat with two wires- blk and Org.
I ohmed them out and the book said should be 80 to 125 I think. I got 107 so I put it back and fired it up. Same as usual, it ran just great for 9 minutes and died. I pushed it back and checked the same connector, got infinity. Total open.
I'm going to let it cool down but I'm pretty sure that points to the pick up coil opening up when it warms up. Makes sense because it would take quite a while for all that oil to cool back to whatever temp this is caused at.

 

[fieldmax]

[QUOTE
There're crimps on picup wires near the left footpeg, check there too.[/QUOTE]

Also; I don't quite understand this last comment. Could you clarify?

 

[fieldmax]

I found a used pickup coil out of OZ Powersports in Kansas and paid a little under half what a new one is going for (over $300). Put it in and it starts and runs quite a while now with no problem. I ran it two or three times as long and far as it was doing when I took it down for maintenance so I assume that's the problem.

Thanks for the suggestion on the pickup coil. Wish I'd done that first rather than the new fuel pump which'll set you back $130.

 

[95spfldmax]

I found a used pickup coil out of OZ Powersports in Kansas and paid a little under half what a new one is going for (over $300). Put it in and it starts and runs quite a while now with no problem. I ran it two or three times as long and far as it was doing when I took it down for maintenance so I assume that's the problem.

Thanks for the suggestion on the pickup coil. Wish I'd done that first rather than the new fuel pump which'll set you back $130.

Do you now have enough miles on it now to feel that it is fixed?? Or is the "dury still out" and you need some more time to be sure??

 

[satariel666]

Also; I don't quite understand this last comment. Could you clarify?

Sorry for bad english, didnt saw the question dohh...you should pm'd me. :bang head:

http://www.vmaxforum.net/showthread.php?t=2063