Lighting in Scoops

Noxx72 · Dec 12, 2008

Finally got around to this. Seems that the best answer is to use an acrylic diffuser in place of the standard black plastic frame that holds your screens.

I'll probably be going to LED, ATM however here is a rough test with an incandescent unit, and a diffuser I fabricated from 1/8" acrylic stock. You can buy acrylic stock that is translucent, but I prefer the higher output from shading the lens yourself. This one is clear stock, fogged with 400 then 1500 grit paper.

In this test the point of the light source is still very defined. This should improve with the chrome overlay back in place (as seen on the right scoop). The deep, almost fiery glow that I was after is present however, so eliminating the pinpoint will be mostly a matter of lamp placement.

Again, this is an R&D test, not a finished product, so don't judge too harshly. Once I get it all squared away I'll post a step-by-step for those interested.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_noNADUxTvY

Thevmaxrider · Dec 12, 2008

Nice job!!! Know several others that run a similar setup, but not nearly as bright as yours.

naughtyG · Dec 12, 2008

I love it! I've been thinking of doing this too, so when you find what works best in terms of bulb / LED / diffuser etc, please document and let us know.

Top job m8 :worthy:

COP RUNNER · Dec 12, 2008

KNOW , THAT IS BAD ASS !

unk:

hubeerjw · Dec 12, 2008

I have been wanting to do something like this as well, but just to have as regular running lights. I was thinking about using red, yellow, and orange LEDs with some type of tinsel or reflective (something) that would simulate flickering or a open flame... don't know if it would ever work, but I think it would look cool.

82ndCowboy · Dec 12, 2008

Nice Work Noxx!

unk:

KJShover · Dec 13, 2008

hubeerjw said:
I have been wanting to do something like this as well, but just to have as regular running lights. I was thinking about using red, yellow, and orange LEDs

I'd check the local regs first before using other colors ie. red and blue.

the LEO's tend to frown on forward facing red or blue lights if your not an emergency vehicle.

Noxx72 · Dec 13, 2008

hubeerjw said:
I have been wanting to do something like this as well, but just to have as regular running lights. I was thinking about using red, yellow, and orange LEDs with some type of tinsel or reflective (something) that would simulate flickering or a open flame... don't know if it would ever work, but I think it would look cool.

The problem with simulating flames with lighting (and this is something we use in a lot of places around the park, most notably at PotC) is that in order for it to work and be noticable in our application on a moving vehicle, you need to burn a LOT of watts because you can figure off the bat that over half of your lumens are going to be lost in refracting and shifting effects. The space constraints are also killer. Given enough room and you can get great effects with rotating reflectors, blowing reflective silk, Solid state flicker modules, etc, etc etc.

If the scoops were 100% dead space, I'd bet I could work that effect out, although a wiring upgrade would be necessary. However since they contain so little actual working area, I'd suggest that the effect you want is probably out of the question, or at least prohibitively expensive.

Bummer that, I'd like it too.

In my final config I'll be using a N/C relay driven by the flasher, so you won't see a dim light, then a bright signal over it, but rather a bright light all the time, which will flash on and off in signal mode.

Dan David · Dec 14, 2008

I plan on doing the same thing. However I will be using high intensity LED. I would drill holes on the metal screen on the scoop the size of the LED. Since each LED bulb use 3 volts, series 4 bulbs so you can hook it up directly to the power source so without a resistor. Use a glue gun to keep the LED in place.

I drilled 12 LED size hole on the headlamp shell of my Virago and installed LED bulbs that changes colors (7 colors each LED) and hooked it up to the running light switch. It gives an excellent light show.

Here in the Philippines, high intensity intensity LEDs are about a nickel a piece. 7 color LEDs are a dime a piece. All from China of course.

naughtyG · Dec 14, 2008

Now the question is, what is a filipino dime worth in US$? :biglaugh:

PATMAX · Dec 14, 2008

I think the exchange is 47 to one right now. Sow it would take 47 cents to equal a dime. Wonder what I could buy a new max for in the PI?

Storloc · Dec 14, 2008

I was thinking about installing some sort of sportbike tail section with integrated turn signals and this would be a good way to clean up the front end as well.

Noxx72 · Dec 14, 2008

Did a little more testing this evening, it looks like the best bet is staying incandescent. I hooked up some MR11's and the spread is great. The only question is whether the lamps will put up with the environment, which only time will tell.

Ordered some orange ones from stage and sound, as none were to be found off the shelf. Will update when they turn up.

RagingMain · Dec 14, 2008

Noxx72 said:
Did a little more testing this evening, it looks like the best bet is staying incandescent. I hooked up some MR11's and the spread is great. The only question is whether the lamps will put up with the environment, which only time will tell.

Ordered some orange ones from stage and sound, as none were to be found off the shelf. Will update when they turn up.

Keep us updated and are you going to keep them at the full wattage the whole time then just dim them for the blinker effect??? Inquiring minds want to know.

naughtyG · Dec 15, 2008

Noxx72 said:
The only question is whether the lamps will put up with the environment, which only time will tell.

If you're thinking of having them naked behind the grille, probably not very long.

I would get some clear hard plastic sheet as used to color stage spotlights, or even get it in orange then you can use clear bulbs. Then make sure you have a good weather seal around the edges - using silicone should do the job just fine.

unk:

Noxx72 · Dec 15, 2008

naughtyG said:
If you're thinking of having them naked behind the grille, probably not very long.

I would get some clear hard plastic sheet as used to color stage spotlights, or even get it in orange then you can use clear bulbs. Then make sure you have a good weather seal around the edges - using silicone should do the job just fine. unk:

I've already built acrylic fronts for the scoops, they sit behind the grill and create the diffusion effect you see in the first video.

There are also snap on type covers for the MR11's, or even mini sealed beams like Halotones. I plan on testing a lot of different lamps and mounting before I settle on a final. I may even install some mirroring on the front section inside the scoop for more refraction. It occurred to me today that some liquid nails and a smashed $5 mirror from Walgreens would go a long way towards getting the proper effect.

That's the only downside to the fun in developing lighting effects, takes time to try everything. And you sort of have to try everything, some of the best effects I am familiar with are created with junk you'd hardly believe. Fortunately I work around some of the best people in the business for honing lighting effects, unfortunately, they have some pretty off the wall ideas a lot of the time.

I'll keep y'all updated.

Noxx72 · Dec 17, 2008

Second test. Constant "high" running light (relays are in the mail for the blinker). Stock mesh grill over hand made acrylic diffuser. Horizontal bars removed from scoop inset frame. Incandescent driver w/ reflectors lining scoop.

Getting closer to desired effect.

RagingMain · Dec 17, 2008

That looks cool. I had an idea about keeping the stock bulbs as well.
Could you put two relays in that work off the same switch. Keeping the stock directionals on and in low wattage. Insert your high wattages and when the button is pressed they would alternate between high low, two blinkers going at the same time but one bright one not. Am I making this clear at all????

Oh well
Cheers

PS I like the effect. Pretty sweet so far

naughtyG · Dec 17, 2008

Noxx72 said:
Getting closer to desired effect.

I love it.

Can you take some pics of the inside for us? I'd like to see your homemade diffuser, what you used behind the grille, and how you hold the bulb in place.

Also, did you need to move anything in there to make space?

Noxx72 · Dec 18, 2008

naughtyG said:
I love it.

Can you take some pics of the inside for us? I'd like to see your homemade diffuser, what you used behind the grille, and how you hold the bulb in place.

Also, did you need to move anything in there to make space?

I'll do a full write up when I hit a finished product. ATM the temporary design involves things like aluminum foil....er... EXPERIMENTAL REFLECTIVE UNITS, which cannot be photographed due to their ghettoness, or, rather high security. Yeah.

Part 2, no I didn't move anything. On the right side you can't really, nothing in there is going anywhere.

Lighting in Scoops

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