10% ethanol is CRAP!!!!

[tugla]

I didn't say it was time to do it....just THINK about it.....Find out what needs to be done differently this year......that's all:biglaugh:

ohh i see got me scared it was going in hiding already.
its turning to winter up in the yukon, not soo warm any more to be running around, not stopping me yet but wont be long now.

 

[jfeagins]

ohh i see got me scared it was going in hiding already.
its turning to winter up in the yukon, not soo warm any more to be running around, not stopping me yet but wont be long now.

They are saying it might get down into the 60's here in MO tonight. BRRRRR!! Hard to believe winter is almost upon us again. :biglaugh:

 

[RaWarrior]

No need to advertise you're burning illegal fuel...wait until a cop happens to be behind you. Just another thing they can nail you for. That's why some stations don't let you put the race gas in the vehicle you came in, it's not legal for road use. And why? Your bike won't be any faster or put down any more power.

Whoever decided to start calling high octane fuel "Premium" and selling it for more money is a marketing genius. Your bike was engineered to run on 87. The timing and compression were all designed with that in mind. The hydrocarbon chain octane (oct meaning eight, like octagon) is a combustion retardant. Can imagine putting that on the pumps---"Premium grade is now LESS flammable!" It's true.

It is added to gasoline to prevent knocking. In small print next to the big 87 or 93 numbers on the pump, it says either (R+M)/2 or AKI, which are one in the same. AKI stands for Anti Knock Index, how resistant that fuel is to pre-ignition. It has ZERO effect on how much energy is in the fuel.

Dyno testing has shown that maximum poweris attained using the lowest octane possible that doesn't detonate. That's because the fuel will be at it's absolute most volatile just before it would ignite on it's own. High octane fuel needs more compression to reach that same "just before" peak volatility. So in a motor designed for regular, the so called "premium" won't reach the same volatility as regular, and you get less power. Your engine also burns cooler than it was intended by Yamaha to. Meaning in the long term carbon won't burn itself off and accumulate on your valves and everywhere else. Unless you have major motor work that results in higher compression or forced induction, you don't need anything but "regular" gas.

I don't get why anyone uses anything but regular. Yamaha built the motor for 87. It runs best on 87. 87 is cheapest. It keeps your motor cleaner. All grades contain the exact same additive packages, go on the same trucks, and come from the same crude. I've seen refineries and fuel distribution centers. The only difference is extra octane additive and the price. It's not more pure or cleaner, and it does not contain more energy(it's actually slightly less).

IMO race gas for stock motor street use is an incredible waste of money. You pay three times as much per gallon, advertise to everyone(including cops) you're illegal, and gain nothing. :confused2: Not a smart buy in my book.


And yes, initial problems when switching to E10 should go away soon. As others said it's a strong solvent and dissolves all the crap in your tank and fuel lines, which is not flammable. Drain the bowls regularly, and use the blue sta-bil(says Marine Formula) if you plan to let it sit for more than a couple weeks. Nothing can prevent or repair phase separation(despite claims otherwise), but additives can delay it. Another tip is to keep the tank filled to the brim as much as possible. Less air to absorb moisture from.

 

[tugla]

They are saying it might get down into the 60's here in MO tonight. BRRRRR!! Hard to believe winter is almost upon us again. :biglaugh:

it was mid 80 last week for a while now 50's ahhhh , sucks gonna have to head south for warmer riding

 

[Miles Long]

And yes, initial problems when switching to E10 should go away soon. As others said it's a strong solvent and dissolves all the crap in your tank and fuel lines, which is not flammable. Drain the bowls regularly, and use the blue sta-bil(says Marine Formula) if you plan to let it sit for more than a couple weeks. Nothing can prevent or repair phase separation(despite claims otherwise), but additives can delay it. Another tip is to keep the tank filled to the brim as much as possible. Less air to absorb moisture from.[/QUOTE]
Sure hope I'm not jinxing myself with this, but......
I recently spent about three weeks in the U.S.,and my route happened to include states where 10% ethanol is standard (or maybe this is a federal ruling now???) In any case, I was monitoring my gas mileage closely, and noted it did not decrease at all, even when I deliberately filled with 85 octane gasoline (87 being the norm.) Nor did I notice any idling or performance problems. These observations all at steady highway speeds, for the most part.
Regardless of the octane and type of fuel being used, however, another thing that was obvious is that my bike runs noticeably better at higher altitudes(5000 ft. plus) But that's another issue, not related to this topic...
In support of the above quote, I want to construct a bigger auxilary gas tank, to replace the smallish steel one already on the bike. I thought about using fibreglass to make the new one, until some research on the internet revealed that ethanol -included fuels will react with the fibreglass and break it down, causing resin deposits to build up in the carbs and fuel components. So my new tank will be good old metal. I mention this with the wish that the ethanol, which the websites say is a type of alcohol, does indeed "dissolve all the crap in your tank and fuel lines"
Hope so!
Cheers, Miles

 

[RaWarrior]

Don't use a fiberglass tank. From working at a marina, I know that many older boats had fiberglass tanks. To be safe, also use fuel line that is alcohol resistant or approved for alcohol blended fuels(most marine fuel line now is E10 approved).

Over time(but not that much time), the ethanol reacts with the fiberglass resins and breaks it down into a sticky goo that lines the inside of the tank. This goo gets sucked up and causes nightmares with carburetors. They get clogged, rebuilt, and literally a week later clogged again.

I've never run anything but E10 in the bike, it's been around NY for some time now. The bike runs fine. The manual states that up to 10% blends are acceptable to use. Ethanol causes problems when it sits around for long times, but if your tanks of gas rarely last more than a day or two as they do in my bike, it shouldn't be a huge concern. If your bike runs poorly after switching, it's probably from dissolved crud getting into your carbs. It sucks, but there's really nothing that can be done about it.

We used to get ethanol-free fuel from Canada, however our fuel supplier informed us that as of Sept 1st this year all 50 states will have federally required E10 for any on-road use.

I've seen 85 octane in high elevations, since you can get away with lower octane when atmospheric(and in turn compression) pressures are lower.

 

[Fizzer]

Go to the small airport and fill a big can of aviation gasoline. its like 100 octane and non ethonal.

 

[rebar]

Go to the small airport and fill a big can of aviation gasoline. its like 100 octane and non ethonal.

Sounds like a plan right before she gets stored for the winter.

Or where can I order the good stuff to insure a good running bike in the spring?

 

[kaboom]

I'm seriously considering draining the fuel system....pulling the whole carb rack and storing them in a sealed container of light fresh machine oil.....then cleaning and reassembling in the spring......because I am afraid after sitting for 5 months resurrection is going to be a BITCH!!!!1:damn angry:

 

[RaWarrior]

It'll be fine. Last winter (with e10), I just added some sta-bil to the gas at the last fill-up and parked it. Mine sat from around october-april without being touched. Turned the key on-off a couple times to refill the bowls, it fired right up. Idle was a bit weak at first no choke, but after a short ride around the block it was fine.

E10 sucks over regular gas, but it's really not that much of a problem, at least as long as your bike doesn't have a 30 year old fiberglass tank. Add some blue-stabil(one ounce treats 5 gallons for storage...a little rich if anything), keep the tank full, and if you want start the bike up once every couple weeks, but I've never bothered with this. It's a machine, not your pooch. It won't get lonely if you don't check up on it constantly.

High octane will do nothing for storage either....I swear people seem to think more octane is the cure for whatever ails your motor.

 

[kaboom]

Whaddya mean "it won't get lonely"?!?!?!?!?!?

I go out and talk to mine EVERY DAY......try to luv up on it a little bit......let it know I still care......start it every 2 weeks......



HEY!!! If people can talk to their plants.......

Ah hell........I am just weird..... :biglaugh:

 

[Redbone]

Whaddya mean "it won't get lonely"?!?!?!?!?!?

I go out and talk to mine EVERY DAY......try to luv up on it a little bit......let it know I still care......start it every 2 weeks......



HEY!!! If people can talk to their plants.......

Ah hell........I am just weird..... :biglaugh:

:rofl_200::rofl_200: I know the feeling, I don't necessarily talk to Redbone but I do sit on it and make "varoom - varoom" noises!unk:

 

[Woody]

Sounds like a plan right before she gets stored for the winter.

Or where can I order the good stuff to insure a good running bike in the spring?

we have a guy who sells all flavors of race gas.
and you can put it straight into your tank.do you ever make it to des moines.
or i can go to a local machine shop. they sell 114.

 

[rebar]

High octane will do nothing for storage either....I swear people seem to think more octane is the cure for whatever ails your motor.

I could care less about the octane. I want 100% gas , no alcohol.

What is the best storage mix? Race gas with sta-bil?

 

[4gasem]

I think I have discovered my problem.....

Symptoms.....have to babysit it during warmup......once warm a bog or hesitation just as you tip into the throttle......it idles and revs fine but just as you start to turn the throttle it will bog.....and it is burbling more on deceleration....

We just recently changed over to the alcohol "enhanced" fuel here......any suggestions??

Anyone else experience these symptoms or am I missing something??:confused2:

Did you read my review of Startron here? It worked amazingly well for me!

Check it out.

Chris

 

[Donaldo 5374]

Aloha,
Here in Hawaii we have been useing E10 for a long time...I also have been useing STARTRON, this stuff REALLY ROCKS....makes my bike run like a scalded dog!!!! Everyone should at least try STARTRON, just my 2 cents worth...it works for me...matbe it will work for you.

 

[4gasem]

I don't understand why people run low octane fuel ??:ummm:
I run 93 octane and often mix with racing fuel.I never trusted that low octane crap I think they might piss in it and call it a new additive :biglaugh:

just my two cents

The only reason to run high octane fuel is because you have a high compression engine OR you have a ton of timing dialed in. A stock vmax doesn't fit in either of these categories. By running a higher than needed octane, you'll see less horsepower and more money come out of your wallet.

Higher octane is LESS volatile than lower octane to a point.

I run 87 as much as possible with the occasional 89 10% fill up with startron when I can't find non E fuel.

Chris

 

[woodsman30]

LOL not my first rodeo do you really think I run like I do without knowing what I am saying. I find it funny that everyone thinks the v max is so different its not... its an engine that works on the same principles as all engines do. I run high octane because I made adjustments and get more HP not less..

The only reason to run high octane fuel is because you have a high compression engine OR you have a ton of timing dialed in. A stock vmax doesn't fit in either of these categories. By running a higher than needed octane, you'll see less horsepower and more money come out of your wallet.

Higher octane is LESS volatile than lower octane to a point.

I run 87 as much as possible with the occasional 89 10% fill up with startron when I can't find non E fuel.

Chris

 

[dtoebaert-5311]

And yes, initial problems when switching to E10 should go away soon. As others said it's a strong solvent and dissolves all the crap in your tank and fuel lines, which is not flammable. Drain the bowls regularly, and use the blue sta-bil(says Marine Formula) if you plan to let it sit for more than a couple weeks. Nothing can prevent or repair phase separation(despite claims otherwise), but additives can delay it. Another tip is to keep the tank filled to the brim as much as possible. Less air to absorb moisture from.

Sure hope I'm not jinxing myself with this, but......
I recently spent about three weeks in the U.S.,and my route happened to include states where 10% ethanol is standard (or maybe this is a federal ruling now???) In any case, I was monitoring my gas mileage closely, and noted it did not decrease at all, even when I deliberately filled with 85 octane gasoline (87 being the norm.) Nor did I notice any idling or performance problems. These observations all at steady highway speeds, for the most part.
Regardless of the octane and type of fuel being used, however, another thing that was obvious is that my bike runs noticeably better at higher altitudes(5000 ft. plus) But that's another issue, not related to this topic...
In support of the above quote, I want to construct a bigger auxilary gas tank, to replace the smallish steel one already on the bike. I thought about using fibreglass to make the new one, until some research on the internet revealed that ethanol -included fuels will react with the fibreglass and break it down, causing resin deposits to build up in the carbs and fuel components. So my new tank will be good old metal. I mention this with the wish that the ethanol, which the websites say is a type of alcohol, does indeed "dissolve all the crap in your tank and fuel lines"
Hope so!
Cheers, Miles[/QUOTE]

Spot on!
Ethanol problems are storage problems, not riding problems: ethanol actually likes moisture - just store it well-ventilated in a DRY environment and you`ll be out of problems - been there, done that!

 

[vmax2extreme]

Just wait, the US will be moving to 15% ethanol soon enough! Just what we need to hear...