95 Vmax middle bearing retainer issue

[Ndulucky13]

Ok so I heard some strange noises behind the shifter side cover I take it off and find 3 of the counter sunk bolts heads broken off and just laying in there with one retainer completely off and only one bolt holding the other retainer. This ever happened to anyone before?

 

[one2dmax]

I think I have only ever seen that once. Not sure what preload is going on to cause it.

 

[Ndulucky13]

I'm going to get some grade 8 replacements today I think they worked themselves loose then the heads busted off is this something I can use a dab of blue loctite with as well as notching them into the tiny groove?

 

[Damon]

Sean,
I've seen one with all four bolt heads "POPPED-OFF" The only thing that makes any sense to me is possibly the transmission output shaft might have been shimmed incorrectly (too tight end-to-end within the case housing) and once the engine reaches normal temps coupled with shaft growth POP?

 

[Damon]

Ndulucy13,
You maybe on to something there, one or two worked them-self loose & away they go!

 

[Ndulucky13]

How much pressure is put on those bearing retainers? I wouldn't think it would be that much?

 

[Ndulucky13]

Here is what's left

[/URL][/IMG]

 

[one2dmax]

They are good bolts to begin with. I'd probably be with Damon on this that maybe poor shimming on the bearing but even then not sure if that should cause it. I'd just put new in and move on.

 

[Damon]

How much pressure is put on those bearing retainers? I wouldn't think it would be that much?

Ndulucky13,
That is half of a bevel gear set mounted @ that end of the shaft behind the bearing & once you dump a lot of throttle you create a lot of pressure.

 

[Ndulucky13]

Thanks you guys for all the info I'm going to replace the bolts with grade 8 from fastnal and see what happens . Thanks again

 

[jedi-]

What does the bearing look like? Any damage? There's witness marks ( bearing face) on the retainer pictured and the holes are elongated.

It seems disturbing to me.


EDIT:
since looking at the transmission diagram I could think of something sinister that could cause this, like a damaged/broken tooth on the middle drive gears, this would cause the the middle gear (spiral bevel gear)on the trans shaft to push away
which could force enough pressure to easily break the retaining bolts.

Hopefully it is nothing like that but if it does make a noise after you replace the bolts etc, that's the first place I would be looking

 

[Ndulucky13]

Third gear is not working on the bike it slips so I just skip it for the moment this winter I'll tear it apart and fix it makes me wonder if that's what happened it slipped and pushed on it. I put new bolts in and it's not making any noise I got grade 8 replacements the bearing looked untouched thank goodness

 

[jedi-]

Third gear is not working on the bike it slips so I just skip it for the moment this winter I'll tear it apart and fix it makes me wonder if that's what happened it slipped and pushed on it. I put new bolts in and it's not making any noise I got grade 8 replacements the bearing looked untouched thank goodness

For sure, I'd be convinced that because of some kind of event has pushed that assembly back and popped the bolts.

 

[Ndulucky13]

Here is a pic of the bike

[/URL][/IMG]

 

[Ndulucky13]

[/URL][/IMG]

 

[Rusty McNeil]

My friends PCW motor did that exact thing. Fixed it externally, replacing and staking bolts etc.

Few thousand miles later his mid gear to output gear teeth broke.

Pulled the engine apart and discovered a shim on the output shaft that had to be closely observed to make sure it goes in the slot intended for it while mating the cases was out of place letting the "gear action" on the middle gear push the driven shaft and bearing that direction and starting the whole snow ball rolling.

Has your engine ever been apart?

 

[Ndulucky13]

That I do not know I just got it a week ago. Any tell take marks to confirm it's been apart?

 

[Ndulucky13]

Got the bolts in and fixed now third gear works all the way until full throttle then if slips but before it would slip out with almost no throttle any thoughts on it?

 

[XXXMAX]

I would guess the bolts worked loose one at a time and when you would hog down on it they would break one at a time. Just replace them with Loctite, then see if there is an issue. I would bet a dime to a donut there is no problem.

 

[Ndulucky13]

They are replaced with grade 8 replacements from fastnal with blue loctite now it's way better it just slips at full throttle anything under that and it's fine to ride all day long what tighten them down did was move the huge transmisson bearing in farther so I'm wondering does that bearing need to be flush with the cases because it sticks out just a little bit right now