agenda 21, were ******

[ZackDaniels]

I can see that you have no problem with agenda 21. I guess it's not that disturbing to think about losing your land when you can mow your yard (if you even have one) in 5 minutes with a weed wacker.

It's not disturbing to think about losing my land because this has nothing to do with my land. Nor will it ever.

Lane splitting is not going to be legalized, I'm guessing you were joking about that.

Not at all. Riding a motorcycle in a city and suburbs makes me beg for this to be legal. This subject is a different can of worms to open though lol.

From what I have read, the idea behind the agenda is eventually a single global government, to make huge areas off limits to humans, and to have to get permission to do something like going for a ride just for the sake of riding. Permission that would not be granted because it wouldn't be in the best intrest of the envrionment, ride your bicycle instead.

That's where it goes off the path of reality. I've explained what agenda 21 is - a suggestion and information for concentration of resources for countries that need to because they don't have the wealth to put up highways or government offices in every city, village, and township. It has nothing to do at all with concentration of government or a single worldly government, and it doesn't have to do with acquiring huge amounts of land and selling permits to go there. Even if it did it's moot because it's not aimed at developed nations like the US. People trying to spin it like this are selling something or have already been sold something.

 

[Theemax]

"It's a fact that concentrating populations into cities and community farming/production resources is far more efficient and cheaper." Check out how many HUGE Corporations have pulled up all stakes, and fled California in the past ten years...it's staggering! Some of it due to taxes, but the main reason was over-reaching EPA ******** reg's! Nothing gets cheaper and more efficient when the Government takes the wheel. (Wait and see the clusterfuck that comes out of Obamacare)

 

[ZackDaniels]

EPA regs and California style taxes don't exist in the places this is intended for. It's for the most basic infrastructure of plumbing, power, municipal and medical staff being present, etc.

That doesn't sound like Anywhere, USA because it's not meant for Anywhere, USA.

LA, Salt Lake City, and other places have strict environmental regs because there's literally a blanket of smog over the cities. They have no option but to get strict on traffic and environmental output if they'd like to remain a place where anybody wants to actually live. They might take some of the research and groundwork done by the UN and put it into their plans for not being covered in smog, but that's because it saves them research money in doing it themselves... not because of some imaginary international men in black.

 

[Redbone]

EPA regs and California style taxes don't exist in the places this is intended for. It's for the most basic infrastructure of plumbing, power, municipal and medical staff being present, etc.

That doesn't sound like Anywhere, USA because it's not meant for Anywhere, USA.

LA, Salt Lake City, and other places have strict environmental regs because there's literally a blanket of smog over the cities. They have no option but to get strict on traffic and environmental output if they'd like to remain a place where anybody wants to actually live. They might take some of the research and groundwork done by the UN and put it into their plans for not being covered in smog, but that's because it saves them research money in doing it themselves... not because of some imaginary international men in black.

There may be more cities covered in a literal blanket of smog causing many of these cities (these are just the cities in the US) to follow the ICLEI protocols to manage "open spaces" which are both goverment owned and privately owned land. This is delivered to our local goverments under the following guise:
"ICLEI promotes local action for global sustainability and supports cities to become sustainable, resilient, resource-efficient, biodiverse, low-carbon; to build a smart infrastructure; and to develop an inclusive, green urban economy. The ultimate aim is to achieve healthy and happy communities. We have developed stable, long-term programs to support local-level sustainability and continue to develop innovative new programs to respond to issues of international concern."
Here is a list of US cities taking advice from ICLEI: I'll put it in this link as it would take up too much space.

Who is and when was ICLEI formed? "ICLEI was founded in 1990 as the 'International Council for Local Environmental Initiatives'. The Council was established when more than 200 local governments from 43 countries convened at our inaugural conference, the World Congress of Local Governments for a Sustainable Future, at the United Nations in New York."

 

[Thevmaxrider]

Was going to ignore this thread and avoid it like the plague as these discussions never end well, but against my better judgement I will step in.

While the initial intent may not be aimed at the US it will be used here as the environmentalists and liberals here like the agenda. They believe that the individual has no clue how to run their own lives and only can survive and succeed if the government shows them how. There have been grabs at the US by the UN for years (of note is when Clinton handed over tacit control over certain national parks in the 90's to the UN) as the "have nots" want what we have. It is unfortunate, but I tend to agree that there is a bigger picture that a lot of Americans tend to stick their collective heads into the sand rather than face up to facts. I firmly believe that someday we will come to regret the decisions made by our government all in the name of helping us.

Am going to keep this short as I can ramble on for a long time about beliefs and all that would do is use a bigger paddle to stir stuff up:biglaugh:

 

[poppop]

Our entire Political System is in the Crapper, only a few working in it are still "For The People".
They're more interested in taking care of themselves and Campaign Contributors and their
own adgenda.

Every day we lose more freedoms and money (Buying Power), this has been going on for decades.

Someday, Our constitution and Bill of Rights will simply GO Away. Does anyone really know how many
Absolutely Ignorant Laws have been added to erode our freedom in just the past 40 years????
My guess would be Billions, Federal, State and Local.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SXnA2Jg8Z-w
Best thing that could happen to America, the World and this Planet is for all the power to go OFF FOREVER...
We'd reform Governments and some may actually be good for the people. And, Overpopulation
would cease to be a problem... Excess populations would simply die off.

Here we go again......... Does Agenda 21 seem similar to Europe in the late early and mid 1900's?:confused2::ummm:


PS: Don't even talk to me about Gun Control, Guns don't do the Killing. Make this a planet of Good People
and I'll give up my Guns. Some of my guns are in case I have to kill Bad People with my guns. Hell, I can hunt
with a Knife or a Bow.

Just look back at the 60s and 70s then tell me how much better the world is doing now!fisical cliff,We didnt create the debt.Why should we pay?Angenda 21 To help anyone anywhere, please,Our good ole uncle sam is trying to get his hand around our throat!Do you know what the video is talking about!

 

[85 MAX-fan]

Yet another sensationalized thing that paints the UN as some big boogeyman that's out to storm your home and liberties. The UN is largely indifferent to the US, and nothing that goes on there can supersede our own laws and regulations. Our own laws and regulations can be made to comply, but that process is no different just because it's based on UN thing. I'm not sure how Americans can have such irrational fear of the UN after we invaded Iraq. Remember when they said going in was unsupported and would violate a handful of their regulations? Our response was 'we'll take that into consideration' and after about 2 seconds of thought we saw Baghdad being invaded on the news. Then in response the UN engaged it's vast network of super spies and stormtroopers to work tirelessly toward sinking the entire US government and THAT is when we truly understood that the Mad Max movies were not just entertainment, but a warning and fashion suggestion to future generations doomed by the UN's awesome power..... wait no, nothing at all happened as a result of that.

This is simply an outline for efficient use of resources. Meaning engineering government money to go into increased benefits to city living instead of infrastructure that encourages suburban sprawl, management of water and energy, etc. It means a whole lot more to undeveloped countries with only so much to go around. People living in urban and rural areas in an already developed superpower don't need to get hyped up over it.

It's a fact that concentrating populations into cities and community farming/production resources is far more efficient and cheaper. This is an outline for how to implement them and/or work toward improving them. If you want a detailed example about how this plays out have a listen to this story:
http://www.thisamericanlife.org/radio-archives/episode/408/island-time

It's fascinating stuff.

RRRRiiight. Lets embrace a political entity that ignores the irrefutable success of the US Constitution, our bill of rights, the most sucessful form of government/commerce/liberty the world has ever known, capitalism, and then lets hand over our freedom to a political force bent on socialsm/marxism and simply sign up to have our future ruled by the likes of those that have made Illlinois a financial ponzi scheme/disaster and put our faith in the political ideology that formed the basis for millions of farmers and peasants being rounded up and executed in Russia a few decades ago.
Seems like a great idea to me.

 

[85 MAX-fan]

Was going to ignore this thread and avoid it like the plague as these discussions never end well, but against my better judgement I will step in.

While the initial intent may not be aimed at the US it will be used here as the environmentalists and liberals here like the agenda. They believe that the individual has no clue how to run their own lives and only can survive and succeed if the government shows them how. There have been grabs at the US by the UN for years (of note is when Clinton handed over tacit control over certain national parks in the 90's to the UN) as the "have nots" want what we have. It is unfortunate, but I tend to agree that there is a bigger picture that a lot of Americans tend to stick their collective heads into the sand rather than face up to facts. I firmly believe that someday we will come to regret the decisions made by our government all in the name of helping us.

Am going to keep this short as I can ramble on for a long time about beliefs and all that would do is use a bigger paddle to stir stuff up:biglaugh:

Sketchy, you are my hero.

 

[ZackDaniels]

RRRRiiight. Lets embrace a political entity that ignores the irrefutable success of the US Constitution, our bill of rights, the most sucessful form of government/commerce/liberty the world has ever known, capitalism, and then lets hand over our freedom to a political force bent on socialsm/marxism and simply sign up to have our future ruled by the likes of those that have made Illlinois a financial ponzi scheme/disaster and put our faith in the political ideology that formed the basis for millions of farmers and peasants being rounded up and executed in Russia a few decades ago.
Seems like a great idea to me.

Embracing and ignoring policies they have that are completely irrelevant to us are different things.

 

[85 MAX-fan]

Embracing and ignoring policies they have that are completely irrelevant to us are different things.

Envirostatism is directed exactly at the US. Crush the liberty and finacial success that capitalism built here and replace it the obediance to the government and believe that lord FedGov is the onlyone that can save the destruction of the planet. If you disagree you're an enemy of the planet and the state.

 

[Traumahawk]

There are several things about this government that I know for a fact.

I am a medic and work in the Gulf of mexico on an oil platform in the GOM. The company that I contract for is a good company and always tries to do the right thing. If say something is spilled in the water...and the reportable quantily is say 2 gallons, and 1 gallon is spilled...we will report any spill, because that is the right thing to do.

BSEE formerly MMS will do random checks, and make certain that evryone is playing by the rules and operating like they should, only its the MAJOR companies are the ones that BSEE checks on, and issues fines too. Its the smaller companies that dont operate safely (the platform that I'm on has operated 8 years without an OSHA recordable injury)...think a platform explosion about 2 months ago. Big companies get investigated because they have deep pockets and smaller companies because they dont....get ignored.

Have you ever watched "Black Gold" on tru tv? That is how smaller companies operate and they dont get investigated by the government. The governemnt is not interested in doing things right...or correctly. They are interested in money and power and control.

I dont want the government in my business, or telling me how to look after myself or my family, that is my responsibility.

What happens when my family is dependant upon the government for everything, and then the government decides that we are not worth anything anymore. Just ask any Vietnam Vet how well the government looks after its own...

Just my thoughts on how well the government can be trusted.

Eric

:red ***::red ***::red ***:

 

[Traumahawk]

“People shouldn't be afraid of their government. Governments should be afraid of their people.”
― Alan Moore, V for Vendetta

 

[m-cman]

What happens when my family is dependant upon the government for everything, and then the government decides that we are not worth anything anymore. Just ask any Vietnam Vet how well the government looks after its own...:red ***::red ***::red ***:

I am a Vietnam vet and have to use the Dallas VA Hospital for my medical needs. It was recently outed as the worst VA facility in the US. Google Dallas VA for the info. They force you to use their medications provider which costs over twice what Wal-Mart charges for the same meds (generics). They have 10 minutes max with each patient (from the doctor himself). Last trip I couldn't get all my questions answered as the doc said he didn't have time. I have been having some scary symptoms lately. The doc didn't have time to discuss. He said they were all probably caused by stress which is what he says about every symptom. Since I have no wife, no kids and am retired, I have trouble understanding where the stress is coming from!! :ummm: :biglaugh: If you can walk in and are not bleeding, you are assumed to be fine....

 

[912er]

A21 is for real and it is in place in over half the counties and cities in almost every state in the union. The UN is far from harmless and definitely not indifferent to the US. They would love to see the US comply with A21, and surprise! WE ARE! Look into ICLIE, this is the organization that hundreds of cities and counties pay 15,000 a year in dues to and they in turn they help your city and county commissioners implement A21.

Where I live we were able to vote out the commissioners that established ICLIE in Clackamas county but not before many A21 regs were implemented. One of the regs still in placer is the “Tree Ordinance” which has been adopted by thousands of cities and counties. For instance if you cut down three trees that are over six inches in diameter you cannot build on your own property for five years! Nice huh? This is no joke, the UN is run by people who want to see your property rights controlled and eventually revoked. A21 is all about depopulation and eliminating property ownership which is right out of karl’s playbook.

It is NOT a 400 page “suggestion” it is reality and if you don’t fight it you will regret it… The ***** in the whitehouse is onboard and if you think he has trashed the Constitution in his first term just wait, now that the EPA has unlimited unconstitutional authority we will see what should be an energy boom of the century regulated down to nothing right along with our freedom…

 

[ZackDaniels]

Tree Ordinances such as that one have been around since the 1700's. Getting more popular in recent memory due to things like arbor day, climate change concerns, and trying to put a stop to developers buying 1 home on 1 acre, demoing it, and putting a cul-de-sac and 9 homes in its place.

These are local county and city concerns promoted to increase the aesthetic appeal, provide public parks and preserves, reduce urban heat island effects, reduce energy consumption and related greenhouse gas emissions, etc. This is not the UN giving a rip about some county in the US. This is the county giving a rip about their electricity bills and costs of maintaining infrastructure. The alternative to rules like this are higher local taxes to pay for increased energy, water, and infrastructure demands.

 

[Traumahawk]

Those are noble causes, and on the surface they sound good... unfortunately how the government has run its past projects, I cannot believe that they will effectively do what is in my best interest, or even the best interest of this nations populace.

Eric

 

[912er]

Correct, ZackDaniels, ordinances have existed since the beginning of government, however they have been local and NOT guided, recommended and implemented by global powers such as the UN. Local building codes and zoning take care of anything such as you described.

Hiding your head in the sand and writing this off as “good intentions” to increase appeal and address energy concerns is the kind of thinking that promotes the loss of liberty.

The majority of the members of the UN want to control the US and if you took the time to study the intent of A21 you would be very hard pressed to call it anything but a classic plan of taking control of independently owned property which is the historically proven first step in the move to a marxist / socialist state.

In our county just like the vast majority of counties the A21 rules, laws and ordinances were all passed without a vote of the people which is highly encouraged by ICLIE. These have absolutely nothing to do with the reduction of energy costs, consumption or emissions. This is purely about control of property. No conspiracy, just fact, people do not vote on these things and they will not result in a decrease in energy costs or anything that benefits the public.

Complacency by the public and the lack of historical teaching and knowledge will again cause the repetition of history. Unless the American people who are asleep wake up and the ones who are awake sound the alarm, the US will fall. We now have the most uneducated electorate in history and those who have been taught history in college were taught that socialism, marxism and communism are superior to capitalism!

 

[CaptainKyle]

Correct, ZackDaniels, ordinances have existed since the beginning of government, however they have been local and NOT guided, recommended and implemented by global powers such as the UN. Local building codes and zoning take care of anything such as you described.

Hiding your head in the sand and writing this off as ?good intentions? to increase appeal and address energy concerns is the kind of thinking that promotes the loss of liberty.

The majority of the members of the UN want to control the US and if you took the time to study the intent of A21 you would be very hard pressed to call it anything but a classic plan of taking control of independently owned property which is the historically proven first step in the move to a marxist / socialist state.

In our county just like the vast majority of counties the A21 rules, laws and ordinances were all passed without a vote of the people which is highly encouraged by ICLIE. These have absolutely nothing to do with the reduction of energy costs, consumption or emissions. This is purely about control of property. No conspiracy, just fact, people do not vote on these things and they will not result in a decrease in energy costs or anything that benefits the public.

Complacency by the public and the lack of historical teaching and knowledge will again cause the repetition of history. Unless the American people who are asleep wake up and the ones who are awake sound the alarm, the US will fall. We now have the most uneducated electorate in history and those who have been taught history in college were taught that socialism, marxism and communism are superior to capitalism!

I dont say much on these but I like your insight & agree with you. The goverment is not worried about us at all . All there worried about is padding there pockets. As were going over the fisacal cliff confress gets another raise. WTF !

 

[ZackDaniels]

Correct, ZackDaniels, ordinances have existed since the beginning of government, however they have been local and NOT guided, recommended and implemented by global powers such as the UN. Local building codes and zoning take care of anything such as you described.

Unless the American people who are asleep wake up and the ones who are awake sound the alarm, the US will fall. We now have the most uneducated electorate in history and those who have been taught history in college were taught that socialism, marxism and communism are superior to capitalism!

Giving information on what works and what doesn't is the point. There's no implementation from the UN for this stuff. It's information and recommendations and NGO's or local governments can cite those and implement them as they see fit. The UN isn't buying the property or writing these laws. Your local county is, but maybe instead of shooting from the hip they're going based on documented effective strategy. I'm not seeing where governments acting based on research and education instead of whatever else is such a tragedy.

The electorate is as uninformed as ever, but I think the big swing with journalism dying and being replaced with chain e-mails is that the little information the electorate seems to get is garbage. No public schools are teaching that communism is superior to capitalism. Where did you get that?

The majority of the members of the UN want to control the US and if you took the time to study the intent of A21 you would be very hard pressed to call it anything but a classic plan of taking control of independently owned property which is the historically proven first step in the move to a marxist / socialist state.

Yes in piss poor countries where a family of 8 is living off the income provided by a single tree or animal. A common suggestion is to buy out the most fruitful or central of lands and turn it into a community farming center. Where things like plumbing can be built and maintained to improve the crop for the original land owner and neighbors. Boosting the country's exports/economy and making them a little less piss poor. We have industry and infrastructure in the US and none of this applies here, except where our own eminent domain policies get enacted for the greater good, as they have for decades and without UN involvement.

 

[Traumahawk]

.

Hiding your head in the sand and writing this off as ?good intentions? to increase appeal and address energy concerns is the kind of thinking that promotes the loss of liberty.

You are very correct. I was always taught that the road to hell was paved with good intentions.