Another 'Clutch Not Disengaging' Thread

[VMX12Rider]

Hate to beat a specific topic like a coked up monkey on a snare drum... and I've searched the forum and found lots of great advice and tried some things and I'm right back to square one. Obviously.. the clutch doesn't seem to be disengaging all the way (Or at least as much as I seem to think it should be). The bike's a 99 with only 9800 miles on it, so it's been sitting quite a bit. I get the usual clunk when you go into first from neutral, and shifting all seems less than smooth below 3000 RPMs (I live in a city, so I'm not usually rapping it out. That being said if I shift at say 4500+ it's fine) I've also noticed that if the bike is turned off and in first or second and I compress the clutch I can't push the bike, it's grabbing that hard. (I have actually push started it before, don't ask :bang head.

I've lost count of the number of times I've bled the clutch. I've even gone out and bought a hand held mityvac to do it. I noticed no real improvement. I just spent $40, three hours and about two gallons of sweat rebuilding the master and slave cylinder (They were filled with some serious crud. It's clean as a whistle now. Seems better, but it's still not disengaging the rear wheel enough to move the bike. I've even actually taken the clutch cover off and inspected the basket because it can get serrated from the clutch plates. They can dig into the basket and bind rather than 'slide' apart; smooth as a baby's behind. I've owned the bike since new... so I know what it used to be like. Might it actually be time for new clutch plates? Thanks in advance :bang head:

 

[davesax36]

Did you push the fluid up from the slave? Air gets trapped in the 90 just above the slave and can make things very frustrating. Hope it woks out soon, though.

 

[Fire-medic]

Yes, the way to bleed the clutch is the reverse-bleed. The Mityvac will work, but using a large-capacity syringe pushing fluid from the slave bleeder up to the master cyl. is quicker, and gives better results. As 'davesax36' said, anything-else can be frustrating.

 

[06VMAXIMUS]

I would think if the clutch plates were shot, that you would get slippage not stickage. If the bike is cold, you will not be able to push it in gear, it will have to be in neutral. I would make sure the shifter linkage is properly adjusted, then blame it on air trapped in the system as stated above. Good luck, let us know what you find!

 

[tugla]

also guys find smoother shiftimg when runnning rotella 15w40 oil...good old dino stuff.

 

[VMX12Rider]

I have yet to change the oil, so I can't report on that yet (I'll do that soon). Trying 15w40 over the 20w50 valvoline wetclutch stuff sounds interesting. I know it has more ZDDP than the motorcycle oil. We'll give it a shot. But I did try the reverse bleeding. I went to the Walmart and picked up a huge horse needle designed to inject marinade into meats. I stretched some silicone (R/C fuel line hose to be exact) over one end and pushed fluid through the zerk upwards and did get a few more rogue air bubbles. The shifting did improve. So thanks for that.

 

[COP RUNNER]

i THIS FORUM IS AMAZING ! ... unk:

 

[alorio1]

When you had the clutch apart did you happen to check the steel plates for warpage? If you would have put the bike on the center stand with the cover off and the clutch exposed, you could have used a feeler gage to see if you were making any headway with the disengagement while you were doing all the rebuilds of master and slave cylinder,bleeding process ect. You could have put the bike in gear and turned the back wheel to see if there were any improvements to disengagements. There is a specific way the clutch disk go in and alignment dots on the basket that you may or may not be aware of. I am not in no way implieing that you don't know what you are doing. Sean Morley has a loaner type program of parts he will send to you and if you find the defective part you buy it from him and send the rest back. He's one of the good guy's on the forum and will help with any parts you need. He may not be the cheapest but he has OEM parts on hand used and new.

 

[Fire-medic]

I have yet to change the oil, so I can't report on that yet (I'll do that soon). Trying 15w40 over the 20w50 valvoline wetclutch stuff sounds interesting. I know it has more ZDDP than the motorcycle oil. We'll give it a shot. But I did try the reverse bleeding. I went to the Walmart and picked up a huge horse needle designed to inject marinade into meats. I stretched some silicone (R/C fuel line hose to be exact) over one end and pushed fluid through the zerk upwards and did get a few more rogue air bubbles. The shifting did improve. So thanks for that.

Yeah, glad that worked, but you can go to your local drugstore and request a 60 ml syringe (60 cc, same thing) without a Luer-lock hub on-it. That style is used to secure a needle w/a screw rotation of the needle mounting flange. You don't want that. You want a simple tapered tube off the 'business-end' of the syringe, and that accepts the rubber or plastic small-dia tubing and then the opposite end slips-onto the brake or clutch bleeder valve. Zerks are the grease-fittings for a hydraulic grease gun to mate-with. I think we knew what you meant, though.

Left, the one to get. Right, the one to avoid. You do-not need a prescription to buy these.

 

[MagnaVMax]

I've been having many of the same issues stated in this thread. Clutch was slipping when i got it back from the shop so i just replaced all the friction and steels and wrestled with the clutch for a couple days.

Finally got it all together, and now my clutch lever is HARD hard to pull in, and the clutch isn't completely disengaging. Enough so that at a stop with the clutch lever in i can't shift the bike into neutral, or even into 2nd gear.

I attempted the reverse clutch line bleed, but i'm afraid my tubing wasn't big enough and it wasn't sealing properly. The fluid is only a month or two old, and both holes in the master cylinder are free and clear with no debris in the reservoir. Also master cylinder was rebuilt not all that long ago.

I'm going to attempt to find some better hose to reverse bleed with, anyone have any suggestion on where to get some. Also does anyone have any other suggestions on what i could do?

 

[alorio1]

If your clutch lever is hard to pull in, you might want to take the line loose from the master and the slave and see if there is a restrickton in the line. The line is made up of steel and rubber. Rubber hydralic lines are known to deterioate internally. When they start to deterioate they sometimes create a flap internally which will trap the fluid flow in either direction. Synthetic fluid adde to the resevoir will cause rubbers to swell also. If I am wrong about the synthetic fluid some one chime in and correct me.......

 

[wildweasel_pt]

Alorio i think you were referring to silicon based fluid or DOT5.0 as harleys use.

 

[alorio1]

Yes, I was.....can you explain the harm of useing DOT 5 or am I mistaken about it causes swelling of the rubber internals of a system requireing DOT 3 or 4?

 

[CaptainKyle]

Yes, I was.....can you explain the harm of useing DOT 5 or am I mistaken about it causes swelling of the rubber internals of a system requireing DOT 3 or 4?

You are not mistaken Do Not ever Mix 3 or 4 with 5 it is not compatible & will screw up the whole system.

 

[MagnaVMax]

I haven't mixed any fluids. All i've used is DOT3 becaue that's what the cap says. But good looking out anyways.

 

[jfeagins]

Are you sure you have the clutch back together correctly?

 

[1st Shirt Maxer]

Since you have owned the bike from new, have you or anyone else been inside the clutch? If not I would definately find a syringe or a reverse bleeder and push the fluid from the slave . If the fluid moves easily and there is no air bubbles coming out I would then focus on the master cylinder. Does your bike have aftermarket levers? If so, put your stock back on and check that. I recently found out that my aftermarket levers were hanging up and not disengaging fully. If you have stock levers then I would disconnect the line and see if the fluid flows freely through the line. If all that checks out it is time to open the clutch cover and start tearing the clutch basket apart and diagnosing that. Hope this helps I just finished a frustrating 4 month battle with my clutch. I tried to just do the minimum instead of just biting the bullet and check everything one by one. I learned a valuable lesson :clapping:

 

[MagnaVMax]

Yeah i took pictures along every step of me putting everything back in the clutch that i removed and text them to Sean Morley (who has been greatly helpful) as i went along. So it should be put together correctly.

I'm going to try lighter coil springs, and the reverse flush and see where that gets me. Right now though i am at a loss. I've tried everything else i can think of.

 

[jfeagins]

How far "down" did you tear into your clutch when you had it apart? Is it possible that you have the clutch push rod or a washer back there out of place?

What would happen if, while you had it apart, you applied some clutch lever and thereby pushed the rod partially out, then now you have too much fluid between the master cyl and slave cylinder? ....just thinking out loud here.....if that would even continue causing any grief if a guy subsequently re-bled the whole clutch fluid system???

Maybe try cracking a line connection open, perhaps the top banjo bolt at the handlebar master...........still thinking out loud.

IMO, if you put back in all stock parts, and all stock parts (worn out) were removed, then there still has to be something wrong with the initial installation, and I don't see any reason why you would need to swap out to lighter springs to get it back to the way it is supposed to be.

 

[Traumahawk]

What would happen if, while you had it apart, you applied some clutch lever and thereby pushed the rod partially out, then now you have too much fluid between the master cyl and slave cylinder? ....just thinking out loud here.....if that would even continue causing any grief if a guy subsequently re-bled the whole clutch fluid system???

The first time that I rebuilt my clutch, I accidentally grabbed the clutch lever, which sent the rod out. After I put it all back together, the lever was rock hard, and couldn't get it to go in gear. I had to bleed the system again, to get it to function properly.