Baffling Battery Issue

[JrBiem]

Ok, so I was riding last weekend with a couple buddies. The bike has fired up fine since I got it in February every time. We stopped for gas and after I filled up it wouldn't start, everything was normal as far as the lights and the noise of the vboost when I turned the key, but it'd try to turn over but no luck. So we sat there a few minutes and they were going to try to push start me but before they did I tried it once more and it fired right up. Every other stop we made that day resulted in no issues at all.

Now today I rode it into town and on the way home I stopped for gas and the same damn thing happened. So I push started it myself from second gear and drove it home. I shut it off and tried to start it, nothing. Left it sit in the garage for about 15 minutes, not on a charger or anything, just sitting. Went outside and it fired right up.

Any thoughts for me? :confused2:

 

[Rand-5107]

Maybe your ground wire. The crimp joint where it bolts to engine block at the oil fill. I've read this heats up leaving the wire loose and should be soldered.

 

[[email protected]]

Do a search for hot start issue. Sounds like thats what you got.

 

[JrBiem]

I shot over to the dealership while waiting for replies on here. I just bought the bike in February so even though it was an as-is sale I'll hold them to selling me something without issues since they said nothing was wrong with it when I asked at the time of the sale. They tested the battery/charging system and he said it's not charging with the tach over 1500rpms. I actually bought it from their other dealership that is linked to this one for new inventory but not used, so he emailed the service guy down there and he should be getting back to me tomorrow. But it sounded like they are gonna make it right whatever it may be.

 

[RaWarrior]

Surprise! The Vmax's electrical system blows!

But really, it's got more flaws are quirks than most. Fortunately most are relatively easy to fix.

I had a similar issue (mine would always start, but running voltage was only like 12.5...as you said, when running above 1500). So probably just barely breaking even.

I replaced the R/R first. Ditched the stock shunt style and got a newer MOSFET style off a ZX14, which I put on the former rear coil mounting plate (cop's). Started it up, 14.4V Hooray! Until the motor got hot, then it crapped out to 12.5 again. Took it apart and put a new Rick's stator in. Now I have 13v hot idle, and 14.4 from about 1500 on up.

So tell the dealer you want a new stator and the new style R/R (Yamaha updated it 98 IIRC)...if it's a solid black block it's the old style, if it has fins it's the new better style. Good luck getting that out of them....

 

[MaxMidnight]

Measure the battery voltage after the bike has had a good run BUT before measuring leave the lights on for a minute or so to dissipate any surface charge. Alternatively, wait until the next day. A fully charged battery should read 12.6 volts. If your reading is significantly below this then you should eliminate any charging issues first. Carry out 1) & 2) below first and re-measure. If you still have a low battery reading then check out the charging system.

However, from what you describe you seem to have the (known) hot start problem which can affect (although not exclusively) the earlier bikes with the two brush motor.

Several things that you can do:

1) Get a heavy duty earth kit, or make one up yourself. In addition to the earth cables already on the bike it also adds an earth from the R/R mounting bolts to the main earth.

2) Solder the splice.

3) Remove the starter (yes, I know it's a pain) and strip and check. Make sure that the brushes are on good condition and if necessary undercut the commutator.

4) Read ALL of this post. Make sure you read all of it as we will be giving you a test at the end!

Modify the end plate as described.

5) Get an Oddsey PC680

 

[ninjaneer]

...
3) Remove the starter (yes, I know it's a pain) and strip and check. Make sure that the brushes are on good condition and if necessary undercut the commutator.
4) Read ALL of this post. Make sure you read all of it as we will be giving you a test at the end!

Modify the end plate as described.

Although in principle the suggested mod in step 4 is sound, I would first use this How-To (will also help you with step 3) that describes the more evasive remedy of tab bending to improve the grounding. If the end result is not fruitful, THEN drill holes.

 

[jfeagins]

Starts fine cold + Won't re-start when hot = HOT START ISSUE!

Have a go at removing the starter and cleaning it, while freshening up the ground between the brushplate and starter casing halves. It's been disgussed at length in the HOT START thread, and other places. Do a search, and do yourself a favor and don't let the stealership dissect anything. Most likely, they will do more harm, than good, and/or you would have to redo their work to get it right anyway. It never hurts to improve your voltage in any of the multiple ways that can be done also. But when the day is done, you starter will need a tuneup anyway.

 

[4gasem]

The question is, how does it start when it does start? I've heard some that sound like the battery is half dead and then some like mine that sound like any normal bike.

Have you done the crimp fix?

Chris

 

[Saml01]

I have done all the fixes mentioned in all the threads and while the bike now cranks when hot, it still does not crank as well as a 4 brush Vmax starter.

Question is, can a 2 brush starter be upgraded to 4 brush?

 

[4gasem]

No but you CAN put a 4 brush starter on an early model bike.

Many have removed the 2 brush, cleaned them up and been amazed by how well they crank.

Chris

 

[jfeagins]

No but you CAN put a 4 brush starter on an early model bike.

Many have removed the 2 brush, cleaned them up and been amazed by how well they crank.
Chris

:worthy: Like putting on a brand new starter! unk:

 

[Saml01]

No but you CAN put a 4 brush starter on an early model bike.

Many have removed the 2 brush, cleaned them up and been amazed by how well they crank.

Chris

Did that. I tore the whole thing apart. Cleaned every part of it.

It cranks better when cold, and just cranks when hot versus before when it wouldn't crank at all when hot.

Im surprised the brush plate just cant be upgraded.

Someone have a video of a two brush starter turning over a cold bike and the same bike hot? Maybe ill make a video and you guys can judge the results.

 

[4gasem]

That works! Check out my video of mine starting cold.... Sounds the same when warm. It's a 2006

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6HRpCvbcd0M

 

[Saml01]

Did you swap a 2 brush starter into yours?

 

[4gasem]

Did you swap a 2 brush starter into yours?

No, I'm just showing what a vmax SHOULD start like.

Chris

 

[JrBiem]

Sorry for the delayed response. Things have been kinda crazy around here the past couple of weeks (I'm getting married next weekend). I have not done the crimp fix or any other electrical related mods to the bike (other than the LED tail light, and the green LEDs in the gauges). Got a call from the service guy at the dealership yesterday letting me know the voltage regulator is shot and they've got a new one on the way which won't cost me a dime. Should be able to pick up Mr. Max on Saturday.

-JB

 

[Rand-5107]

Good to hear they found the problem and that you'll be riding soon. Congradulations on your upcoming nuptials.