Battery draining right before my eyes

[Regular Guy]

Here's the latest on the whole dealio. I didn't start or ride the bike for pretty much the whole week. I would test the battery voltage each day before leaving work and coming home from work. All week it stayed at 12.8ish (12.6 was the lowest at the end of the week).

I started it up and saw the volts climb, so that's good. I wanted to ride yesterday but got busy doing chores around the house. This morning it rained early on but moved out so I decided to go for a ride, with my wife on her Shadow. It was her first time riding since we got it back. We didn't go far, just down the road in a loop, about 7 miles.

We got back into our subdivision and over our intercoms we decided to stop so she could ride my bike back to the house (she likes it). I left it running and hopped off of mine and onto hers. I looked at her as she got on my bike on saw the tail light get really dim and then the bike died!

She tried to start it back but it wouldn't. It turned over like it was going to fire up but didn't. Then, the battery was done. It had enough power to have the lights on but not enough to turn over. Luckily we were on a hill and I was able to coast home and into the driveway. I pushed it into the garage and hooked it up to the battery tender and it was definitely low. I didn't put a multi meter on it (should have but was so pissed that I couldn't see straight).

Now, after charging, if I were to go out to the garage I have no doubt she'd fire up just fine but I need to get to the bottom of this soon. I have yet to take this bike on a true ride as I am afraid I'll get stranded! This thing is becoming a massive pain in the ass. She's nice to look at but I don't trust her, lol!

As always, any and all help is greatly appreciated!

 

[D-Max2012]

You watched the tail lights go dim, then the bike died. That's Odd..

I would do the following.

Test 1, (low voltage test / dead cell)
Let the bike die like you just witnessed. Attempt to jump start your bike, using your car. (be careful of the wires in those close quarters). IF it starts right up, I would lean toward a dead cell in your battery AND possibly a regulator / rectifier issue.. NOTE: there is a common issue with a stock Gen1, with grounding to frame. The contact posts becomes corroded. I had to pull regulator off, clean the post and the mating hole with scotch bright and add dielectric grease. 4 years now, still going strong.

Test2, (Pick up coil test)
Let it die out like you witnessed, (bike should be warm by then) Try to jump start your bike with your car.. IF you see the lights looks the same (Bright), the bike turns over, but will not start, 1st smell for raw gas from your pipes, then check for a spark from a coil wire thru a spark plug - grounded to the engine.. IF you see you have no spark, Let the bike cool down for a few hours and check for spark again or jump start it..

My own, left me pushing 630 lbs for 2 miles. I found out that my pick-up coil failed once warmed up. Had to get a replacement from RegulatorRectifiers.com

Good luck..

 

[Regular Guy]

I want to add that I ended up soldering my wires where I had spliced into them to install the new LED taillight (made a flickering brake light thread about it). It was thought that there was a bad ground on the bike and I wanted to make sure the wires were not the issue. The taillight still flickers so soldering my connections didn't fix that. Maybe they flicker because of grounding to the frame as you suggest. When you say contact posts become corroded, are you referring to the connections from the R/R to the stator or +/-? The male/female wiring harnesses?

As for smelling raw gas in the pipes, that may be a tough one because this Max has needed the carbs adjusted since I bought it in February. The guy who I bought it from had a friend/mechanic work on the bike as it sat for some time due to the owner having health issues (which led to him selling it). The friend took the carbs off and sonic cleaned them and replaced the seals as well as flushed out the gas tank and changed the oil and filter and fork oil and seals. The mechanic told me that I would probably end up having to adjust the carbs and I think he is right. I am fairly sure it runs rich as it A) Smells like gas when I park it in the garage (strong) and B) It gets terrible gas mileage. I'm guessing I got around (50 miles out of the tank of gas I've ran through it during little rides here and there testing it). Granted, I have gotten into it a few times but DAMN!!!

I got a little over excited today, ready to send it on its way and ended up ordering a new R/R but maybe that's not even it. I then began thinking maybe the stator is going bad. What's odd is that I've done the voltage flow chart where I start the bike, run it at 2500rpms and check voltage, run it up to 5000 and check it passed that test, so I am just at my wits end. I'm determined to get this bike up to snuff, it just seems to always be something.

I had a chance to buy a newer model (a 2006 versus the 1999 one I got) for only $600.00 more but passed on it. Why? Because I didn't like the color of the newer one AND I felt bad for the guy selling the '99 one. He needed the money for his doctor bills and I am a softy. I felt compelled to help him out. Once I got there I saw that the bike had potential, I figured I could clean it up and be happy with the $3700.00 I spent. Saving $600.00 led to me spending a fortune between painting, powder coating, new exhaust, new rotors, new tires, on and on and on.......I should've bought the 2006 one and I bet I'd be riding, not repairing. I feel I got taken. Don't get me wrong, I feel good about helping the guy out but at the same time, I wonder if he KNEW it had these issues and unloaded it on me, made up a story about being sick. If so, then God help him. That's pretty low down of him. In a way, I would be happy that he isn't terminally ill but on the other hand......you get the idea.

The mechanic I spoke with seemed on the up and up and told me he's one of the moderators on v4musclebikes site. He didn't say his username but his real name is Mike. Maybe he's on here too. Maybe he'll chime in even?

 

[sdt354]

Beware, the friendly mechanic not aware of how critical float height and sync are to a Vmax.

 

[D-Max2012]

Beware, the friendly mechanic not aware of how critical float height and sync are to a Vmax.

+1 on that.. 50 miles to a tank.. That's bad.. I normally get about 85 miles till the reserve light comes on, plus an extra 25 or so to get to a gas station. This also depends on how you ride. If you're a rev-a-hollic, your mileage will suffer. I once got about 45 miles to a tank when I was stuck in heavy traffic trying to get through NYC. I try to keep it in 4 or 5th gear at low RPM's to get the most mileage.

The taillight still flickers so soldering my connections didn't fix that.

You might want to check the adjustable setting on your foot break switch. Make sure it activates when you're giving it a good press. Not just turning on when the break is lightly touched.

Just a thought,, If you normally smell heavy raw fuel, you may want to work outside of your garage.:biglaugh: You will have to check your float heights, needles, Needle valves at the top of each carb (to make sure they are sealing properly and not leaking).

The regulator / Rectifier is sitting behind the rear, left passenger foot peg. The actual ground for it, is your frame. Since that is an active electrical connection point, and it's not that far from the gases that vent from charging lead-acid batteries, it tends to build corrosion over time. Remove your regulator and inspect the bolt post, and mating hole. Clean, Use Dielectric grease to help give a good connection and help coat the metal from those battery gases. Reassemble and retest.

So, you say you had that tail light flickering before.. And even with an LED upgrade, you still noticed the flickering.. If this flickering happens because of engine vibration, you may have a loose wire someplace or maybe the rear break light switch. If it happens as the engine changes RPM, that can be the same regulator grounding issue.

Note1: IF you see All lights doing this, chance are, it's the device feeding the electrical system. If it's just the tail light, check the wires / switch that feeding it.

NOTE2: When you get your dielectric grease, it would be to your best interest to apply a little bit, every time, you have to inspect an electrical connection.

 

[Eugene Brad]

On your voltage test, are you doing a.c. voltage test from the stator at the plug between stator and r/r? If you only check at your battery for dc voltage you may be getting false possitive at cooler temp to battery when that plug might be compromised once brought to temp. That's what mine did.
And don't feel too bad I spent $3100 on an 85 with a bad second gear and intermittent charging issues. Probably more issues I havent found yet too. The p.o. deffinately knew and will hopefully get his karma he deserves and at very least I have learned to NEVER buy a bike without a test ride. Is what it is now. I had v max buyer goggles on pretty bad and didn't do enough homework.
Anyway we need to solve your issue so you can enjoy the sweetness that is the v max.
Have you got in touch with Bill Seward? He was a big help for me to diagnose my charging problem.
Good luck man. It seems you have been messing with that thing since I've been on the forum.

I want to add that I ended up soldering my wires where I had spliced into them to install the new LED taillight (made a flickering brake light thread about it). It was thought that there was a bad ground on the bike and I wanted to make sure the wires were not the issue. The taillight still flickers so soldering my connections didn't fix that. Maybe they flicker because of grounding to the frame as you suggest. When you say contact posts become corroded, are you referring to the connections from the R/R to the stator or +/-? The male/female wiring harnesses?

As for smelling raw gas in the pipes, that may be a tough one because this Max has needed the carbs adjusted since I bought it in February. The guy who I bought it from had a friend/mechanic work on the bike as it sat for some time due to the owner having health issues (which led to him selling it). The friend took the carbs off and sonic cleaned them and replaced the seals as well as flushed out the gas tank and changed the oil and filter and fork oil and seals. The mechanic told me that I would probably end up having to adjust the carbs and I think he is right. I am fairly sure it runs rich as it A) Smells like gas when I park it in the garage (strong) and B) It gets terrible gas mileage. I'm guessing I got around (50 miles out of the tank of gas I've ran through it during little rides here and there testing it). Granted, I have gotten into it a few times but DAMN!!!

I got a little over excited today, ready to send it on its way and ended up ordering a new R/R but maybe that's not even it. I then began thinking maybe the stator is going bad. What's odd is that I've done the voltage flow chart where I start the bike, run it at 2500rpms and check voltage, run it up to 5000 and check it passed that test, so I am just at my wits end. I'm determined to get this bike up to snuff, it just seems to always be something.

I had a chance to buy a newer model (a 2006 versus the 1999 one I got) for only $600.00 more but passed on it. Why? Because I didn't like the color of the newer one AND I felt bad for the guy selling the '99 one. He needed the money for his doctor bills and I am a softy. I felt compelled to help him out. Once I got there I saw that the bike had potential, I figured I could clean it up and be happy with the $3700.00 I spent. Saving $600.00 led to me spending a fortune between painting, powder coating, new exhaust, new rotors, new tires, on and on and on.......I should've bought the 2006 one and I bet I'd be riding, not repairing. I feel I got taken. Don't get me wrong, I feel good about helping the guy out but at the same time, I wonder if he KNEW it had these issues and unloaded it on me, made up a story about being sick. If so, then God help him. That's pretty low down of him. In a way, I would be happy that he isn't terminally ill but on the other hand......you get the idea.

The mechanic I spoke with seemed on the up and up and told me he's one of the moderators on v4musclebikes site. He didn't say his username but his real name is Mike. Maybe he's on here too. Maybe he'll chime in even?

Sent from my SM-G360V using Tapatalk

 

[Regular Guy]

**LONG READ AS ALWAYS**

Here we are with another installment of "As The VMax Turns". I swear this just gets better and better, lol!!

Today, I ended up calling the mechanic that fixed my wife's Shadow and was talking to him about the VMax. I told him the story of about how I bought it from a guy who is terminally ill and my emotions probably got the better of me and that I think I overpaid, figuring it would help the guy out and all.

I told this mechanic (Tim) that the previous owner of the Max let it sit for a long time and that a mechanic buddy of his did him a favor and took the carbs off and cleaned them and replaced seals in them and adjusted and synced them, yada yada....

I asked him what he recommended. He says that the carbs need to come off to determine what the issues are and that it would be $550.00 plus parts, if any were needed. 1 hour each per carb at $110.00/HR plus 1 hour for an additional $110.00 = $550.00

He's 4-6 weeks backed up, same as when I took my wife's bike to him.

I remembered that I had the mechanic friend's cell # still (the one that worked on the bike in SC before I bought it) so I thought "What the hell, let me call him". So I did and told him that the bike has been a PITA since I got it back in February. I told him that I bought the bike thinking that it was in A1 mechanical shape and had I known of the charging issues and raw gas issues I would've passed or at least offered way less to allow for the repairs. I told him (Mike) that I feel that I'd been taken.

I told him about it dying out on me, that I don't trust it and don't want to get stranded with it. I asked again what he had done, just to see if the story was the same. He said that he took them all off, cleaned them in a parts cleaner, new seals and such, synced and that it was running fine. He then let something slip that I had not heard before. He told me that a guy came to look at it prior to me, rode it and came back from the ride and decided not to buy it because it wasn't running right. I had never heard this! I was told that somebody wanted to buy it but didn't have the money and ironically the day I went to get the bike, the guy called and had the money in hand but the seller told him "no" because I was coming from GA to get it, was already on the way and he didn't want to sell it out from under me.

Maybe it's true, maybe it's BS. Maybe he truly is sick, maybe that's BS too. I hate to say it but I know how devious people can be.

At any rate, the conversation turns to me talking more to Mike "The Friend Mechanic" about the charging issue and he tells me that don't focus on the carbs until I get the charging issue resolved. He tells me that the VMax has a Mitsubishi fuel pump on it and that it draws a lot of amps and that if the bike's charging system isn't working right, it will affect the fuel pump ergo the carbs. Sounds reasonable I thought.

I tell him that I am waiting on a new R/R to arrive and he tells me that in the meantime, take the seat and faux tank off, find the fuel line coming off the fuel pump and filter and disconnect it (after draining the carb bowls) and blow about 15 pounds of air through it to dislodge any possible debris that may have a needle stuck and then blast it with some carb cleaner.

So, I told him thanks for the time and he said to call him back anytime. I will say that Mike seems to be an upstanding fellow. Very cordial.

Later on this afternoon, I called another local mechanic who has been in business around here for a LONG time, about 40 years, and I ask him if he has time to hear my tale of woe. His said he did so I rattled off the above story to him and he tells me......"There are people who SAY they work on carbs and there are people who KNOW how to work on carbs" LOL

He said that he's been working on carbs for 40 years, he said he knows VMax carbs are finicky and you need to know how to properly adjust each one, set the floats correctly or it'll not run correctly. I told him it's guzzling gas and that I smell raw fuel. He tells me that I have a leak somewhere but said if it was blowing out the exhaust it would smoke. Black smoke he says.

I asked him if the charging system would affect the fuel pump and therefore cause the gas smell issue, he said emphatically "NO!". He says it wouldn't have anything to do with it. There seems to not be much going in favor of Mike, the mechanic. This mechanic (Dave is his name) tells me he's about 3 weeks backed up and that roughly to take the carbs off and redo what was just done, to see what Mike did or didn't do right would be $300.00-$400.00.

He said the trouble with somebody that THINKS they know what to do is that you often have to UNDO what they did and that can run into more time/money. He gave me example of drilling the jet out instead of using a proper cleaning tool or replacing it. He said that he's seen it done and it'll make the bike run rich and ruin your mileage.

The first mechanic I talked to today (Tim, the one by my house that fixed the Shadow) said me turning the mixture screw will only affect idle. He said that if it's smelling of raw gas and drinking it like it is, that you HAVE to go into the carbs. I'm new to all of the motorcycle repair stuff, that's why I post here for you guys to help me, advise me.

I feel like I'm being told different things by everybody!! I just want the bike to run proper, is that too much to ask????:rofl_200::bang head:

 

[Traumahawk]

The Vmax is UNLIKE anything out there. I have hears NUMEROUS times, of the carbs being rebuilt by a "professional", and the bike will still run like crap, and then it turns out, they were rebuilt WRONG. There are even experienced Yamaha mechanics that dont know a Vmax.

This forum can walk you through ANYTHING that needs to be done to a Vmax. That way, you know that its done RIGHT.

 

[Regular Guy]

Alright Gents. The R/R came in today. I will go and get some wiring this weekend. Should I run 14awg or 12awg? Also, I plan on running the new wires straight to the battery but what do I do with the existing wires from the old R/R? Do I simply unplug from the wiring harness connector and leave the one end just open?

I know I have many a dumb question but I'd rather seem like an idiot BEFORE than AFTER, lol!

 

[ga_max]

I've been following this thread for educational purposes and wanted to let you know there are no dumb questions (I'm spreaking from experience 8^)). The people in this forum will do anything to help you resolve your problems. Like you I had electrical issues with my max. The previous owner put in Lipo Battery and and I still had it on a tender. With the infor from the people here and the flowchart I ended up changing the RR and my issues went away. I also went from the RR directly to the battery (search for crimp) and that seemed to help. I get about 14.2 volts at idle now. I've also gotten into the habit of cleanning all my eletrical connections every season. I just use contact cleaner and that seems to help.

I know MPG can vary but I get about 30-33 per gallon. I don't go WOT all the time but still have fun. Both Sean and Danny (Max) can rebuild your cards and they will do it correctly. Once you get this resolved and if your up in my neck of the would (Cumming GA) stop on by.

Doug

 

[Regular Guy]

Will do Doug! And you're right about no dumb questions but I still don't want to wear out my welcome, lol! I know a lot of stuff (mostly useless) and I used to be a trainer so I had a certain level of patience. With that said, sometimes you just ran across somebody so stupid (harsh, I know) that you couldn't help but lose patience a little, lol. I don't want to be that guy on here :rofl_200:

 

[Regular Guy]

I am about to push this mofo off a cliff! IT IS PISSING ME OFF!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[D-Max2012]

I am about to push this mofo off a cliff! IT IS PISSING ME OFF!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Is it still randomly shutting off??
If so, did you get a chance to test if it happens once warmed up?

just curious.

 

[Regular Guy]

Is it still randomly shutting off??
If so, did you get a chance to test if it happens once warmed up?

just curious.

Well........I have that new spiffy R/R as you may have read. I took it out today for a little jaunt down the road and at one point it was spitting and sputtering with a little popping action but it was brief. The clutch is chattering as noted in another post so I'm not sure what that's about. I still runs like a raped ape when I drop the hammer (that's why I am so hell bent on sorting it out, it's fun to ride!). What I am mad about is that after it got hot, it doesn't want to start so easy. It starts but seems like it's running ragged and I put the volt meter on it to test voltage once I had it warmed up. At idle it was 12.6 and if I revved it up it did increase but what I find strange is that when it was cold, it would register 13.6 or so at idle.

I don't know if this is something to be concerned about but I can say that this bike seems to have many gremlins still lurking. I know it's not a spring chicken, 18 year old bike, but with 7900 miles on it I didn't think I'd be getting the issues I've inherited. Methinks the previous owner sold it because he KNEW of the gremlins. Maybe not. Either way, it's up to me an my wallet to get it right or ditch it and move on to another non-Vmax bike.

If I were into just taking it down the road for a 10-20 minute ride once a week, it wouldn't be too bad but I actually want to be able to go out and put a couple hundred miles on it without worrying about it.

 

[Fire-medic]

I think you should contact Sean Morley and get his electrical kit. You change 1 component at a time, and whatever one fixes your problem, you pay for that one. Just remember: change 1 component at a time!

So, you replaced the R/R and the issue still exists? Did you test for a dead battery cell as was mentioned? A weak battery can cause all-sorts of issues. Solid state ignitions like a reliable, full-voltage system to function properly.

 

[D-Max2012]

I know it's not a spring chicken, 18 year old bike, but with 7900 miles on it I didn't think I'd be getting the issues I've inherited. Methinks the previous owner sold it because he KNEW of the gremlins.

It's quite possible that the PO knew about the issues. Almost 8K miles, is nothing for this bike, without odometer fraud / or Odometer swap, that is.

Reason for asking about heat.
When my pulse pick-up was starting to fail, the bike would fire up fine up from being cold.
As it sat there warming up, you could actually hear it start to misfire and buck.
When you rolled on the throttle, it would miss, then catch up..

Note: all of this was in the early stages of the Pulse Pickup Coil (PPC) failing. Then, it got to the point when I'd fire her up, and right as the fan would kick in, the bike would sputter and die out.

Even tried to jump it from my car. With the car big battery, the engine would rotate nice and fast, all lights where bright, but the bike still would not start up.

I ran a this test, once it cooled down. Using a spare spark plug grounded to the block. It had a weak - almost invisible, looking spark. I started it up, once warmed up, and died, I ran the same test again. This time, I had NO SPARK AT ALL.

With the help of another V-Max forum and the guys here, the symptoms lead to the Pulse Pick-Up coil going bad. Once I found a replacement and changed it out, the spark was WAY stronger then it had ever been. So strong that it was easily visible in direct sunlight. So far (4 years), and running strong.

Since the test is EASY to do, and wont cost you a dime, why not do it??