Bike wont start, looking for advice as to what to do next

[Jdk203]

So I was out about two weeks ago for a nice first ride of the season with my best friend. We were out a few hours and the bike ran as good as it has been so far this year. It typically was idling on three cylinders and I have been debating taking it into a shop to have it worked on. But last week I went out to take it for a quick ride and it wouldn't start. Just kept cranking and cranking and nothing. So I thought hmmm let me try jumping it. Still nothing. I left it alone for a little while because I just havent had time to fool with it and went out tonight to try and get it running. I went through and checked each spark plug one at a time for spark and checked the gap looked to see if they were fouled up. Seemed fine for used spark plugs they all had good spark. So no problems there. I fiddled around and noticed a pretty beat up ground wire so I replaced it thinking maybe it was the culprit. checked some of the connections around the battery to make sure all looks well there. After all that went to try starting it in hopes of going for a short night ride and still no go. It cranked and cranked and the only positive thing I got was a really weak pop like it tried to fire up just for a split second but pretty much nothing. What the hell is up with my bike? The only thing I did was run a little seafoam in hopes of getting the idle to straighten up. Is it possible I knocked loose some big gunk and now everythings clogged in the carb? Im contemplating doing the pea shooter and shotgun next. But I'm worried if I just keep tinkering without actually knowing whats happened I might compound my problem. Any advice?

 

[KJShover]

Being the seafoam is the only thing that was done to it. I'm thinking it very well could have loosed up some junk and now the junk went elseware in the carbs.

A gummed up carb not feeding the cyl correctly could be the culprit of the dead candle too.

 

[PATMAX]

Sounds like my post from last week(exorcism needed). Remember the Max has four carbs so the chance of all the carbs being gunked up simultaneously is sort of a stretch or coincidence. I'm going with an electrical problem as the source of your problem. Did you pull a plug and try grounding it to see the spark strength? If you have bright spark, I am wrong. I still haven't figured out mine so I hope you do better than me.

 

[vmaxcruzer]

Since its the start of a riding season, and it looks grim already I would start from the basics. Dedicate a good day to going through all the bases. New plugs, gaped, installed. Check fuel filter, replace if needed. Good gas in tank, with sea foam added in the proper amount. charged battery. Then I would carefully pull out the air/fuel screw from each carb and spray with carb cleaner. If you can get it to run, turn up the idle a bit and spray some more in the hole (shotgun). If you get an idle with all four lit then you may be a OK for a while but sooner than later you will pull another piece of crap into the carbs. If that's the problem. Make sure that the two black rubber hoses from the top of each carb doesn't have a kink or pinch in it as it passes by the filter lid. The ones that mount to the sides of the air filter housing.If you I've been into the carbs, do a good tear down and clean them. If not then try it, its not than hard, I/we can walk you through it. I do it out of boredom. Your fuel pump could probably be cleaned too, its easy as well. Only two things could be wrong, fuel or spark. I'm certain that you will strike gold somewhere through this process. In my experience if it runs rough its most likely dropped a cylinder, you can pull a plug until you find which one then work from there. If the engine starts to run good on the go while into the throttle then its one of the circuits plugged.

 

[Jdk203]

Being the seafoam is the only thing that was done to it. I'm thinking it very well could have loosed up some junk and now the junk went elseware in the carbs.

A gummed up carb not feeding the cyl correctly could be the culprit of the dead candle too.

I did fail to mention one other thing that I did to it in the week it sat. I don't think there is any significance to it now that I've gone through and check for spark but I took off a couple of the spark plug wires (cyls 3 &4) to check what plugs were on the bike so I can get new ones. I'm wondering if maybe they arent getting properly seated on the plug and not get a good connection as a result? idk I've checked them a half dozen times already. Also thinking maybe I could have pulled the front one out of the coil a little bit and its a weak spark as a result? I checked the rear coil but didn't get to the front yet.

 

[Redbone]

You might also nip a short bit off the spark plug cable going into the coil to freshen that connection up while your checking.

 

[naughtyG]

I think the first thing is to work out if your problem is fuel or ignition.

After you crank it for a bit, take one or two spark plugs out. Are they wet, and smelling of gas?

If they're not, try squirting a little gas in each spark plug hole, refit the plugs, then crank again. If it starts up then dies, you definitely have a fuel (carbs or fuel pump) problem.

At this point, I would unplug the hose coming from the fuel pump and crank again - if there's no gas you have a fuel pump problem. If it squirt gas, you have a carbs problem.

Assuming your fuel pump and carbs are functioning correctly, then you have an ignition problem. The most common failure is a little relay that's behind the left scoop, and behind the plastic panel that holds the other relays, just under the TCI unit mounting bracket. It's the starter circuit cutoff relay - it works with the neutral switch, clutch lever and side stand switch to disable the motor. Often the actual relay dies, and this may be your problem.

 

[Jdk203]

You might also nip a short bit off the spark plug cable going into the coil to freshen that connection up while your checking.

Yeah I'll give that a try definately cant hurt. Im not ruling out ignition yet.

I think the first thing is to work out if your problem is fuel or ignition.

After you crank it for a bit, take one or two spark plugs out. Are they wet, and smelling of gas?

If they're not, try squirting a little gas in each spark plug hole, refit the plugs, then crank again. If it starts up then dies, you definitely have a fuel (carbs or fuel pump) problem.

At this point, I would unplug the hose coming from the fuel pump and crank again - if there's no gas you have a fuel pump problem. If it squirt gas, you have a carbs problem.

Assuming your fuel pump and carbs are functioning correctly, then you have an ignition problem. The most common failure is a little relay that's behind the left scoop, and behind the plastic panel that holds the other relays, just under the TCI unit mounting bracket. It's the starter circuit cutoff relay - it works with the neutral switch, clutch lever and side stand switch to disable the motor. Often the actual relay dies, and this may be your problem.

Gonna definately take your advice anybody know how to check the relay? is it normally open/closed how many pins etc etc. What does the relay actually do?

 

[Jdk203]

Well I ordered a carbtune today so once I get this figured out I can try and get her running better. Since I bought it I may be a little more willing to rebuild the carbeurator myself if that turns out to be the culprit.

 

[2fear]

Did you over-due it with the Seafoam? I once had a low tank at home and figured I would add my Seafoam and drive to the gas station and fill er up. When I tried to start it, no go. I knew right away I screwed that up lol. Added fresh gas from my can and drained the carb bowls and it fired right up... Just checking.

 

[Rhoy Carter]

you might try a little starting fluid, just a quick squirt into the air box, that will tell you if it is a fuel problem

 

[maleko89]

I did fail to mention one other thing that I did to it in the week it sat. I don't think there is any significance to it now that I've gone through and check for spark but I took off a couple of the spark plug wires (cyls 3 &4) to check what plugs were on the bike so I can get new ones. I'm wondering if maybe they arent getting properly seated on the plug and not get a good connection as a result? idk I've checked them a half dozen times already. Also thinking maybe I could have pulled the front one out of the coil a little bit and its a weak spark as a result? I checked the rear coil but didn't get to the front yet.

Pull out the plugs and insert into the boots. Measure Ohms from center electrode to a good clean engine bolt for ground.

Also, turn float bowl drain screws and verify fuel is in bowls.

 

[vmaxcruzer]

Did you over-due it with the Seafoam? I once had a low tank at home and figured I would add my Seafoam and drive to the gas station and fill er up. When I tried to start it, no go. I knew right away I screwed that up lol. Added fresh gas from my can and drained the carb bowls and it fired right up... Just checking.

I know most know this but it doesn't hurt to reiterate that sea foam is a good product but following the instructions on how much to add is important, I over did my mower with stay-bil one year. Pulled most of my hair out before I figured it out. Less is a good thing sometimes

 

[Jdk203]

Did you over-due it with the Seafoam? I once had a low tank at home and figured I would add my Seafoam and drive to the gas station and fill er up. When I tried to start it, no go. I knew right away I screwed that up lol. Added fresh gas from my can and drained the carb bowls and it fired right up... Just checking.

Maybe I did? I had it running when I put it in and I ran the tank pretty much empty and was gonna refill the night it wouldn't start. I guess maybe draining and starting fresh might be the answer. :confused2: I really hadn't considered that until now.

 

[vmaxcruzer]

Don't forget to drain the fuel bowls too. You know where the screws are?

 

[Jdk203]

Don't forget to drain the fuel bowls too. You know where the screws are?

I checked the service manual and i'm not 100% sure but it atleast points to the general area.

 

[naughtyG]

I checked the service manual and i'm not 100% sure but it atleast points to the general area.

Picture in the first post of this thread:

http://www.vmaxforum.net/showthread.php?t=1570

 

[Jdk203]

Sweet thanks. I'm hoping to drain it all and put fresh in tonight after the kids go to bed.

 

[Jdk203]

Ok I have some progress. So the overkill on seafoam seemed logical to me. Prolly had between and eighth and quarter of a can in the tank and the gas was still old gas from over the winter. So I went out tonight and siphoned the tank and drained the carbs a few times. I went to start it and it was a little reluctant but finally started but only ran on 2 cylinders. I had to give it a little throttle to get the rpms up enough that it didn't sound like it was gonna die. If I gave it more throttle to try and get it to rev up a little it would stop around 2500 rpm and then all of a sudden rev to 6-7k on all 4. So I stopped it and drained the carbs again thinking still more of the old fuel in there. Tried again with the same results. About that time the wife ran out and yelled at me for making so much noise that late at night. So I am left in suspense as to whether or not the bike is fixed. I'd say I am on the brink of having it going again (please god I need my fix).

I'm thinking one of a few things

Either drain and keep trying until she runs well or just let it limp along on two cylinders until it runs well maybe after a few minutes the idle will improve?

OR Maybe from draining the bowls so many times I have a stuck float?

Sound like I'm on the right track or is the reving symptomatic of something totally different?

 

[naughtyG]

I think I would try and have a go at running round the block first, just to see if it clears up.

If it doesn't check your spark plugs - they often tell a story. Dry or wet? Black or white? It all helps to know.

If, as I suspect, a couple of plugs look suspicious, then it may be a great time to hit the carbs with the peashooter first (easiest) and if still no luck the shotgun method. 9 times out of 10 that'll will clear idle issues.

And, of course, when was last time your carbs were synced?