Carb question on another bike....

[gamorg02]

Not sure where to put this post, but anyways i got a question for you carb experts...

my roommate and i bought a gs500E for $800 with 13k miles on it not too long ago. it was running allright, and we had it on the road until a week or so ago until him and another buddy cleaned out the carbs... it was always a bit tough to start, but would eventually catch...

now after cleaning, it wont start. it appears not enough gas is getting in the float bowl. did the test with the tube from the drain and from all the forums n shit online it looks like its about 1/4 of the way it should be up the float bowl.

my question is this. is it possible that by taking the carbs apart the little needle thing with the rubber tip got ruined? or possibly gunk was holding it in the right spot? it was working before so it seems odd that it would stop working once it went in. none of the float levels were changed when everything went back in. after not working we tried to adjust them (i think we got it right) and looks like the same problem.

i also took the bowls off right side up and saw there was very little gas in there as well when the bowls came off.

anyways any thoughts, insight, help, etc would be greatly appreciated!

there looks like there are carb rebuild kits online for about $30 a carb, may be worth it for the needles (once again the one with the rubber tip, not sure the exact name, the on that lets gas in the carb bowl)...

thanks!

 

[Firewrench]

Maybe they were re-assembled with the needle retainers on top of the float arms. That would lower the floats major. If that's not the problem, bend the tangs to raise the floats. I don't know the specs but you should be able to get close if the floats are parallel to the carb bodies.
The rubber on the needles is called "viton" If you don't douche them with carb cleaner, they are usually good to go. If you did, they'll definately need to be replaced.
Good luck.

 

[Firewrench]

Just re-read your post and thought of something else. Did you check to see if you're getting fuel from the petcock?

 

[gamorg02]

Maybe they were re-assembled with the needle retainers on top of the float arms. That would lower the floats major. If that's not the problem, bend the tangs to raise the floats. I don't know the specs but you should be able to get close if the floats are parallel to the carb bodies.
The rubber on the needles is called "viton" If you don't douche them with carb cleaner, they are usually good to go. If you did, they'll definately need to be replaced.
Good luck.

Just re-read your post and thought of something else. Did you check to see if you're getting fuel from the petcock?

thanks man! the float needle valve (THANKS DANNY) is definitely seated right. the petcock was also working before, and if i leave the drain bolt on the carb bowl open it will keep draining gas as long as i leave it open. also, the carbs were empty and then had gas in them...

however, i think we may have found the smoking gun. spoke with my roommate and he had doused the float needle valve and viton in the spray-on carb cleaner. sounds like we need a rebuild kit. that would make sense as some quick googling shows that they swell when coming in contact with that stuff. which would make it close pre-maturely. he is working from home tomorrow and may try putting the carb together without the float needle valve to ensure the bike will then start (i know gas will be leaking everywhere!), but it will prove the concept.

let me know if my logic makes sense and thanks!

 

[naughtyG]

hey Garrett,

remember that a lot of those rebuild kits are cheap rubbish, and it's often better to buy just the OEM part you need, especially when it comes to carbs.

Just call Gary McCoy @ Mondak Motorsports for the best price - say you're a vmaxforum member for 20% off.

 

[Firewrench]

I don't think I've ever tried to run one without a needle valve. Would be wise to have a large fire extinguisher very handy for that maneuver. Might want to do it outside too. Good luck.
Paul

 

[gamorg02]

hey Garrett,

remember that a lot of those rebuild kits are cheap rubbish, and it's often better to buy just the OEM part you need, especially when it comes to carbs.

Just call Gary McCoy @ Mondak Motorsports for the best price - say you're a vmaxforum member for 20% off.

thanks ng. we found this :

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/e...re&item=200338722772&category=35597&viewitem=

but i am also going to check w/some local suzuki shops for oem parts. i agree. the link above looks to be OEM rebuild stuff...

I don't think I've ever tried to run one without a needle valve. Would be wise to have a large fire extinguisher very handy for that maneuver. Might want to do it outside too. Good luck.
Paul

hmm.. yea it will be done outside. maybe a smarter decision would be to fill the bowls completely then try running it with the petcock off at that point...

wouldnt' be the first bike i set onfire trying to get running tho! haha... i see your point tho. thanks again!

 

[naughtyG]

nah m8

SUZUKI ECONOMY CARBURETOR REPAIR KITS

that's the key word in red - it means SHITE - a few people made that mistake.

Gary McCoy 406 433 6635 will beat any of your local stealer's quote if he can get Suzuki parts - even with shipping it'll still be less!

 

[gamorg02]

nah m8

SUZUKI ECONOMY CARBURETOR REPAIR KITS

that's the key word in red - it means SHITE - a few people made that mistake.

Gary McCoy 406 433 6635 will beat any of your local stealer's quote if he can get Suzuki parts - even with shipping it'll still be less!

I wanted to get it up and running this weekend so i'm going to make a couple local calls, if that falls through then i'll probably order from Gary.

Question tho, i've seen mixed reviews online, are K&L kits are shit as well NG?

Seems they get recommended as rebuild kits for gsx-r's and the like sometimes...

thoughts?

 

[naughtyG]

I don't know about K&L specifically. Just heard so many sorry stories about cheap carb kits from fleabay..

 

[gamorg02]

I don't know about K&L specifically. Just heard so many sorry stories about cheap carb kits from fleabay..

i dont' blame ya.... just curious if there are any aftermarket car rebuild kits out there that aren't shit....

no locals have the jets in stock. calling gary later for a quote.

 

[m-cman]

K&L are better than Keyster but still go with stock. I have used K&L and Keyster and Keysters are JUNK. K&L is a little better. With the V-Max carb sensitivity, it is much better to use the best parts.

 

[gamorg02]

K&L are better than Keyster but still go with stock. I have used K&L and Keyster and Keysters are JUNK. K&L is a little better. With the V-Max carb sensitivity, it is much better to use the best parts.

oh jeeze if this was my vmax it would be OEM parts, no questions asked...

thsi is a '89 suzuki gs500 that i got for $800. $80 for the two oem float needles is 10% of the worth of the bike ahhaha. i found a guy online that has some lightly used oem ones that he'll send to me for basically shipping. if those don't work i'll go back to gary or try a K&L kit.

 

[gamorg02]

current update:

the off knob on the back of the petcock was acting up. part of the problem. So now gas is in the float bowls and checking the level with a tube when gas is in it, it looks right where it should be.



So using the choke to start it doesn't really work. works best without choke and just blipping the throttle and keep doing that until its warmed up a bit.

putting the idle speed up helps to start it (still without choke) but once the bike warms up the idle speed is WAYYY to high...

the tach is all over the place and not reliable so going by 'feeling'

does all this point to maybe it running too rich? clearing out all the jets n such is causing it to run too rich and now i have to re-adjust? your expert opinions would be greatly appreciated!

 

[one2dmax]

It could be the throttle shaft seals. Try spraying carb cleaner and see if the idle changes when you do that.

Sean

 

[4gasem]

Remember it's NOT a choke. It's an enrichment circuit. Sounds to rich to me but I'm not in front of it.

Might want to clean the plugs as well. You may be fowling them.

Chris

 

[gamorg02]

thanks chris and sean.

yea i know it just basically shoves more gas right?

i will spray some cleaner and see if i can find any leaks. I will post back.

the only reason it would make sense if i twas running rich was b/c the idle revs so much higher once its running and it starts ok cold w/out a choke if u just give it a little gas...

figuring the choke may be flooding it a bit?

does that make any sense?:ummm:

i should probably also find the a/f screws on the carb if i have to go down that route eh?

 

[gamorg02]

problem may be that the idle is set way to low to start the bike as it then idles way too high. i think its a running issue, not nec a starting issue.


once it was up and running i sprayed some starter fluid (out of carb cleaner but will get some) near the intake boots/carbs and the engine rpms blipped up...

 

[one2dmax]

Stater fluid works better but can be a little more hazardous. Need to fix those vacuum leaks and you might fix the entire problem.
Sean

 

[gamorg02]

thanks sean. will tear back into it at some point, hoping none of those boots are cracked, man that stuff gets expensive quick...

right now it seems starting it at a high idle speed and dropping it back down will get the bike to run, and it is a shitkicker, but