Bikes get rounded-off gearbox engagement dogs, and the bike will jump-out of gear under heavy acceleration. It's not usually the teeth that cause the shifting issues. The fix is split the cases to replace the worn components.
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Sounds to me like the aftermarket clutch lever problems a bunch of us had with those Chinese levers. Do you have the stock clutch lever or an aftermarket one?
Didn't know about that issue either. I guess I need to surf around a little more. Mine doesn't have any part number, just markings. I'm not sure what that could have to do with my issue, except the occasional missing second:ummm:
I had that issue. The hole where the pushrod for the MC goes into, is too shallow, when compared to the stock depth. So.....the hole in the lever is too shallow, so the pushrod will ALWAYS put just a little bit of pressure on the MC, kinka like constantly riding the clutch. After a while, my clutch would just start to slip. When the bike cooled off......everything was fine. Took forever to find out what the cause was. The fix (so I could keep the levers) was to take a couple of mm of the end of the push rod......and havent had any problems since.
I dont know if this sounds like the issue that you have.
I dont know if this sounds like the issue that you have.
Well,
I don't have my Barnett clutch disk's or pressure plate yet, but I decided to get in there and see whats going on. As you can see from below pictures, someone has done the DD mod. :biglaugh:
Now the question is, how will this affect my assembly of the Barnett clutch plates and pressure plate if I decide to include the plate?
There is no half disk anymore. There is no retaining spring clip for the last disk anymore.
Will install of the Barnett clutch plates require the retaining spring? Also, I see no reason to remove the basket. I can kind of get in there and rough up the surface on the mating surface of the clutch boss if necessary
Also, friction disks were measuring between (.111" to .116", so some are below limits (.114"-122").
I'm actually considering just roughing up the steel plates and putting this back together. Thoughts???
I don't have my Barnett clutch disk's or pressure plate yet, but I decided to get in there and see whats going on. As you can see from below pictures, someone has done the DD mod. :biglaugh:
Now the question is, how will this affect my assembly of the Barnett clutch plates and pressure plate if I decide to include the plate?
There is no half disk anymore. There is no retaining spring clip for the last disk anymore.
Will install of the Barnett clutch plates require the retaining spring? Also, I see no reason to remove the basket. I can kind of get in there and rough up the surface on the mating surface of the clutch boss if necessary
Also, friction disks were measuring between (.111" to .116", so some are below limits (.114"-122").
I'm actually considering just roughing up the steel plates and putting this back together. Thoughts???
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I have put a 1000 miles or so on it without a clutch slip, so I don't think I have that issue. I am rebuilding the MC though, while I'm at it. This thing never showed signs of slippage and then just slipped hard under WOT.
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Clutch plates are relatively-cheap. Scuff-up the 'steelies' and reassemble the clutch w/new plates, should do it. Sounds like you already have the half-friction disc replaced.How-many friction discs are there?
No-need for the inside ring from the stock clutch that fits w/the half-friction disc, w/the Barnett pressure plate. You know the Barnett pressure plate removes the diaphragm spring(s).
No-need for the inside ring from the stock clutch that fits w/the half-friction disc, w/the Barnett pressure plate. You know the Barnett pressure plate removes the diaphragm spring(s).
7 friction disks. My order for the friction disks are still probably 3-5 days out. I'm throwing it back together after roughing up the plates, just to see what happens. It really is an easier job then expected. EXCEPT my clutch lever wont engage right now. I kept it from accidently closing while removing everything like the book said, but when I got it back together, the lever wont compress and engage the clutch. I'm trying to figure that out now, LOL.
:ummm:
Its doing the same thing. I'm starting to think its not the clutch. In first or second gear (probably the other too) if you give it any throttle over a 1/3 now, it disengages. It has a gear noise when this happens from the left side around the gearshift that coincides with the rpm. It will just rev up with the gear noise, but it stays in gear. If you let off, your still in the gear and it stops.:confused2:
I don't believe this is my clutch anymore. Anyone know of something else like this happening? It would make sense its not the clutch, because it was a sudden thing that happened under WOT. My thinking is that a clutch would have shown signs earlier now.
I don't believe this is my clutch anymore. Anyone know of something else like this happening? It would make sense its not the clutch, because it was a sudden thing that happened under WOT. My thinking is that a clutch would have shown signs earlier now.
Been looking around, and its sounds like possibly a worn gear dog or shift segments. Which of those fit this?. I see it on the microfiche, but need to see how to get to it to inspect. Is this engine removal time if its the gear dogs?
Any links for inspecting this stuff?:bang head: I can rev it up in the garage and let clutch out a little and it sounds like gears slipping.
Any links for inspecting this stuff?:bang head: I can rev it up in the garage and let clutch out a little and it sounds like gears slipping.
Well I got back in there and pulled the basket. My shift segment looks good and is the newer style. There is some damage on the back of the basket as shown. The marks around the circumference looks like old damage and the damage around the pins may be new from me removing it. I saw no contact marks on anything inside that was contacting it.
It looks like it's shifting well with the segment, but what if its not putting it in gear far enough. Would that cause my issue? I mean its either in gear or not right?
Also, if thats good then where are these dog lugs that I need to check out? Does engine have to come out to see them or just to replace them?
It looks like it's shifting well with the segment, but what if its not putting it in gear far enough. Would that cause my issue? I mean its either in gear or not right?
Also, if thats good then where are these dog lugs that I need to check out? Does engine have to come out to see them or just to replace them?
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The gears have 'dogs' (protrusions) on their sides, which insert into holes on the adjoining gear's side, as the gears are moved in and out of contact by the shift forks on the gears' shift fork keyways (I'm calling them 'keyways,' but there's probably a different name for them). The gears slide back and forth in and out of contact on the gearbox mainshafts as you shift through the gears. Once you see the gearbox apart, with the various pieces pointed-out to you, you will understand how it works. You need to split the cases, the cases split horizontally into top and bottom halves.
The shift drum has a slot which moves the shift forks as you actuate the gearbox with your foot. The slot one end of the shift fork follows on the shift drum makes the shift fork 'ears' on the opposite end of the shift fork push the gears back and forth on the transmission mainshafts. This is what's called a 'sequential' gearbox. You have to shift from 1 to 2 to 3 to 4 to 5, and then down, though of course you can shift from 3 to 4, and then shift down again to 3, or similar. In a car transmission, you can shift from gear 1 to gear 3, 4 or 5, without going through 2 to 3, 3 to 4, etc. And yes, you can toe the shift lever twice, going from gear 1 to gear three, but you had to pass-through gear 2 even if you didn't release the clutch to engage gear 2.
The shift drum has a slot which moves the shift forks as you actuate the gearbox with your foot. The slot one end of the shift fork follows on the shift drum makes the shift fork 'ears' on the opposite end of the shift fork push the gears back and forth on the transmission mainshafts. This is what's called a 'sequential' gearbox. You have to shift from 1 to 2 to 3 to 4 to 5, and then down, though of course you can shift from 3 to 4, and then shift down again to 3, or similar. In a car transmission, you can shift from gear 1 to gear 3, 4 or 5, without going through 2 to 3, 3 to 4, etc. And yes, you can toe the shift lever twice, going from gear 1 to gear three, but you had to pass-through gear 2 even if you didn't release the clutch to engage gear 2.
I've come to terms with the fact I need to pull the engine now
Just trying to figure out the financial side.
Pulling the engine is something you can do if you have some decent tools, including a good jack, I wouldn't want to try it with one of those teensy-tiny jacks. I would recommend a normal floor jack, several feet long. The engine is about 230 lbs and you don't want to drop it, and crack a casting. Plenty of people on here have successfully-repaired their gearboxes, but if it's beyond your initiative, just removing and re-installing your engine can save you a considerable amount of $. Just be-sure that you do all the work inside so you don't end-up having to re-do it because you cheaped-out rather than replacing something.
It's not cheap to do, but if you do it right, you should be able to have a reliable job done. Ask Sean Morley about his oiling kit, since you're splitting the cases, even-if someone else is doing the work.
It's not cheap to do, but if you do it right, you should be able to have a reliable job done. Ask Sean Morley about his oiling kit, since you're splitting the cases, even-if someone else is doing the work.
I have plenty of tools and initiative. I'll ask Sean about his oiling kit. What else do you suggest replacing while inside? Engine is an 85 model, but only has 29,XXX miles.
I'm already making plans for solid mounts, painting that old engine, and doing the valve adjustment among other things.
I'm going to defer to Sean Morley on that one, in-detail. I've had my hands in a few Vmaxes, but not like he has!
Generally, since you're going in there, if you plan to hold onto the bike for years, I would probably replace the 2nd gear set, the shift drum, and the shift forks, and install Sean's oil pump kit. Anything else that needs to be done, because of wear, should be replaced, now. If you want better shifting, getting the transmission undercut will make things work much-better. All that costs money. In some cases, you might be better-off replacing the engine with a good replacement. Since you have a 1985, there is some consideration to keeping the original cases with the frame, though it will never be like the value of a 1936 H-D Knucklehead, or a 1948 Panhead.
Generally, since you're going in there, if you plan to hold onto the bike for years, I would probably replace the 2nd gear set, the shift drum, and the shift forks, and install Sean's oil pump kit. Anything else that needs to be done, because of wear, should be replaced, now. If you want better shifting, getting the transmission undercut will make things work much-better. All that costs money. In some cases, you might be better-off replacing the engine with a good replacement. Since you have a 1985, there is some consideration to keeping the original cases with the frame, though it will never be like the value of a 1936 H-D Knucklehead, or a 1948 Panhead.
Here is a thread by Sean that shows how to pull the engine step by step.
http://www.vmaxforum.net/showthread.php?t=27555&highlight=pull+engine
http://www.vmaxforum.net/showthread.php?t=27555&highlight=pull+engine
Thanks Traumahawk,
I actually saw that yesterday and saved the link. Great info there.
Whats a good inexpensive bike stand to use while I do this? I have no center stand. I guess I could buy the Harbor freight jack and strap it to it after I pull the exhaust.
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