Clutch slippage gen 1

[Michael C]

Hello all, I'm looking for a little advice/feedback from more experienced Maxers...I have a 2003 with 13k miles. Bike runs great and I care for it well. The issue I'm having is clutch slippage when I'm on the throttle (already in gear) and accelerating. Usually when approaching 6-7k rpm. The clutch seems fine otherwise and never slips in moderate riding. The bike sat before I bought it a year ago. I went through it and changed/flushed ALL fluids and oils. It seems odd to me that the clutch only slips during hard acceleration in the taller gears?? Should I do a complete replacement?? I know the 'double D' mod could solve the issue, but I've heard that can cause issues with the driveline (u- joint etc.) I'm considering replacing all the friction plates; is that the best course??
Any feedback would be appreciated
Best to you'all !!

 

[MaxMidnight]

Does it make any difference if the motor is cold, during warm up or at operating temperature?
When my clutch started to slip it also tended to be in the higher gears at higher revs.
What oil are you using; some report that fully synthetic can be a cause. Semi synthetic doesn't appear to be an issue and some swear by Rotella.

First thing I would do is establish the thickness of the friction plates. The service limit is 3.1 to 2.9mm; minimum thickness is 2.8mm but from my experience slippage can start before this.
At 13K that sounds early to be down to wear but if it has had a hard life who knows?

 

[Michael C]

I'm using Activo (synthetic blend 10w40). I did use Marvel Mystery Oil when I first got the bike and I've heard that can cause issues with clutch slippage. The bike had 8,900 miles on it when I bought it and looked like it was six months old...well cared for. I ran the MMO for 150 miles. Don't know if that contributed?? I guess I'll purchase new friction plates and open her up for inspection. Don't wanna be unprepared if they are worn.

 

[Michael C]

When I first got it I changed the oil, ran it for 150 miles with the MMO, then put fresh oil and have been changing it evey 2,500. Perhaps the synthetic blend is the cause??
My first Max ('98) never had issues with the same oil...

 

[Traumahawk]

The thing that people don't realize is that the gen 1 was designed in the early 80s. The clutch wasn't designed for synthetic oil. Most people on here, myself included, have had great luck with using a Dino oil. Rotella 15-40.....aka T4, really seems to be what the bike likes. Sean will tell you that he has taken apart engines with 100K miles on them, and still having cross hatches in the cylinders, and using T4, which is a diesel oil.

I buy it by the gallon, and use it in all of my gen 1s.

Eric

 

[CaptainKyle]

The thing that people don't realize is that the gen 1 was designed in the early 80s. The clutch wasn't designed for synthetic oil. Most people on here, myself included, have had great luck with using a Dino oil. Rotella 15-40.....aka T4, really seems to be what the bike likes. Sean will tell you that he has taken apart engines with 100K miles on them, and still having cross hatches in the cylinders, and using T4, which is a diesel oil.

I buy it by the gallon, and use it in all of my gen 1s.

Eric

Exactly!!!

 

[Fire-medic]

Another vote for the Shell Rotella T4.

You can find many threads on here about swapping out the spring ring at the innermost part of the clutch pack, which fits inside a 1/2 width friction disc. Remove those both and add another OEM full-width friction disc. The Yamaha design was to provide a bit of better engagement of the clutch pack, when downshifting, especially if the downshift was clumsily done.

For the cost of a gasket, measure the friction plates and steelies. Are the steelies blued (bad!)?

Scuff the steelies to give 'em some grip again after seeing they're in-spec. I suggest replacing the innermost 1/2-width friction disc with a standard one (full-width) and eliminate the spring steel ring sitting inside and concentric to that 1/2-width friction disc. PCW offers a kit of OEM friction discs, including a replacement for the 1/2-width one, and a gasket. They also have a heavy-duty clutch diaphragm spring, much-easier on your hand than a double-spring set-up. Call them to order. I'm not sure this # is still good.

PCW Racing in Schenectady, New York​

(856) 728-9801
108 112 Henry Street
Schenectady, NY 12303

Vmax Yamaha Motorcycle Performance Custom Engine Work Drag Racing Performance Tuning
Dyno Testing Big Bore Carburetor
Machine Shop

 

[Michael C]

Exactly!!!

Another vote for the Shell Rotella T4.

You can find many threads on here about swapping out the spring ring at the innermost part of the clutch pack, which fits inside a 1/2 width friction disc. Remove those both and add another OEM full-width friction disc. The Yamaha design was to provide a bit of better engagement of the clutch pack, when downshifting, especially if the downshift was clumsily done.

For the cost of a gasket, measure the friction plates and steelies. Are the steelies blued (bad!)?

Scuff the steelies to give 'em some grip again after seeing they're in-spec. I suggest replacing the innermost 1/2-width friction disc with a standard one (full-width) and eliminate the spring steel ring sitting inside and concentric to that 1/2-width friction disc. PCW offers a kit of OEM friction discs, including a replacement for the 1/2-width one, and a gasket. They also have a heavy-duty clutch diaphragm spring, much-easier on your hand than a double-spring set-up. Call them to order. I'm not sure this # is still good.

PCW Racing in Schenectady, New York​

(856) 728-9801
108 112 Henry Street
Schenectady, NY 12303

Vmax Yamaha Motorcycle Performance Custom Engine Work Drag Racing Performance Tuning
Dyno Testing Big Bore Carburetor
Machine Shop

 

[Michael C]

Thanks for the information

 

[MrMAX1985]

Had the same issue, slipping in v-boost. Took out plates and measured them, still in spec according to manual. Replaced them and used Rotella 15w40, no more slippage.

 

[Fire-medic]

OK good on ya. Mineral-based oil, not synthetic.

 

[Littleschipper]

I've had my V-Max since new and after the break-in immediately started using synthetic motorcycle specific oil. Well over 40k miles and my clutch never slips (going through tires is another story!) Over the years I've used different brands but currently use Mobil-1 synthetic motorcycle racing oil mostly because of availability and price (see Walmart.) Automotive synthetic oil is bad ju-ju for motorcycle clutches, it is known to cause clutch slip. I use synthetic oil in all my gas engines. Cars, trucks, motorcycles, even my generators, snowblowers and lawn mowers. Costs more than dino juice but for me I'm willing to pay the price. For oil additives I only use X-1R, it is advertised as motorcycle clutch safe and even though it is very expensive I'm impressed with my personal results. I add it to engines, manual transmissions, transfer cases, and differentials. I tore down a Toyota V-6 engine with over 220,000 miles on it with no visible wear, it never smoked, never burned oil, and no dino sludge at all (the crank broke in two pieces at one of the journals which is the reason for the teardown.) I'm a believer in using synthetic oil and X-1R together, never had any clutch, lubrication, or wear issues with them.

 

[Fire-medic]

The forum is where you can find real-life results from different products. A vote for the synthetic motorcycle oil side.

 

[Michael C]

Had the same issue, slipping in v-boost. Took out plates and measured them, still in spec according to manual. Replaced them and used Rotella 15w40, no more slippage.

When you say replaced, do you mean you kept the original clutch plates??

 

[MaxMidnight]

One other thought, can we assume the oil you use is for motorcycles and doesn't include friction modifiers?

 

[Michael C]

I use Activo, it's a synthetic blend (motorcycle oil). I used it in my first Vmax, a 1998, and never had slippage. That's what makes me think there's something else causing the issue??

 

[Traumahawk]

When i first bought my 07, I tried amsoil for motorcycles, it didnt feel right and was harder to shift. That's when I went to rotella.

 

[Michael C]

I'm listening to all you guys and coming to the conclusion that changing oil types is necessary. I'm wondering this though...assuming my clutch components are within spec, will I need to replace them also; will they have become "glazed" by the previous slippage??

 

[AndrewT]

Change the oil to the correct weight for operating temp motorcycle mineral oil.

 

[MrMAX1985]

When you say replaced, do you mean you kept the original clutch plates??

No I replaced them with new fiber plates.