Coolant all over oil pan

[Radioguylogs]

I could only ride my "new-to-me" 1986 VMAX a couple of times before winter set in.

Two weeks after I parked it, I noticed a drop of fluid on the floor under the oil pan. I found the oil pan and surrounding area was damp with a fluid. When I wiped it off, there was not enough in one place to confirm what kind of fluid, but is seems like coolant. Several days later, the area is damp with fluid again. The paint is stripped off the entire bottom of the engine.

There is no paint stripped above the oil pan on the right side. I can see paint missing above the oil pan on the left side. It's hard to see up to the water pump, but I imagine that is where the problem might be?

I tried to read every post on this forum about the coolant leaks and the water pump.

Seems that when the water pump seals fail, then coolant comes out a weep hole somewhere. I looked for weep hole and I couldn't find it. Does one have to remove some parts to see it?

Does this leak sound like a water pump problem?

The recommended next move is start taking apart the water pump?

I am thinking ahead to working on this bike in the spring. I am currently swapping the frame on my Honda V65, and I expect that will consume most of the winter. I thought I could plan ahead about the VMAX so I am ready when riding season comes around again.

Appreciate any thoughts or comments.

-Mike

 

[MaxMidnight]

Possible areas for leaks on the RH side are:
Cylinder block drain plugs, Cylinder head link pipes, coolant hoses to the cylinder head and manifold under RH scoop and (ta dah!) water pump.

You usually see some crystalised witness if it is a hose so assuming all is well with those then your diagnosis of the pump seems reasonable.

You don't need to remove anything to see the weep hole but as you say, it isn't easy to see.

The seal is available as a separate part and note that you will also need a replacement gasket, drain bolt washer and while you are at it flush the cooling system and replace the anti freeze.

 

[Radioguylogs]

MaxMidnight:

I appreciate your concise response.

Is the weep hole on the outside surface or in that hollow area behind the cover and above the exhaust?

-Mike

 

[one2dmax]

The weep hole is facing on the rear side between the clutch cover and waterpump. It's about 1/4" or so in diameter. The very first picture in this ebay add shows where this one was obviously leaking at one time or another and blew off paint with it (very common). Seen on the right side of the pic.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/1985-85-07...=item260b4c0a85:g:-d4AAOSwEX5b~CpA:rk:12:pf:0

 

[Radioguylogs]

one2dmax:

That's immensely helpful. I'll take a look as soon as I can.

Thank you!
-Mike

 

[Radioguylogs]

I took everyone's advice. I looked and looked and couldn't really see where this 'coolant' was coming from.

Finally I spotted a wet area at the bottom of the clutch slave.

Now it all makes sense. I thought it was coolant because it didn't feel like engine oil. Now I believe it's brake fluid from the clutch slave.

That explains why all the paint is missing from the bottom of the engine. Too bad someone didn't fix it right away.

I noted the clutch reservoir level has dropped from 2/3 up the sight glass to the bottom of the sight glass since I bought the bike 5-6 weeks ago.

So, I ordered the parts to change the slave seals over the holidays.

The part names on Partzilla are really strange. The clutch pushrod seal is called an O-ring. A copper washer is called a union bolt. The picture of the seal kit picture shows only one seal instead of two... everything is unnerving.

-Mike

 

[one2dmax]

Are you sure you got the right parts? I stock this stuff normally by the way as well (though not as cheap as the online retailers). The advantage of getting parts from me is you get the right parts.
OIL SEAL 93109-08061-00 - This is the seal in the block under the slave. Not normally needed for a slave rebuild but worth replacing
PUSH LEVER SEAL KIT 26H-W0098-00-00 - this is the slave rebuild seals
The copper washers are reusable and are usually called gaskets or washer plates.
The only other part you should need would be the middle gear gasket.

 

[Radioguylogs]

Sean:

Being a newcomer, I didn't know about your parts business. I always prefer to patronize a member whenever practical. I'll stroll around your web site and get acquainted.

Comparing the part numbers you provided, I did manage to order the right parts. It's strange, the weird part names were fixed when I received the confirmation e-mail from Partzilla.

-Mike

 

[one2dmax]

You should be good to go then!

 

[Radioguylogs]

I disassembled everything last night.

I was surprised to find the fluid was DOT 5. I've not had any experience with DOT 5 before, and my initial reaction is that it's a pain to wash off of stuff. Nothing dissolves it. Not soap, not alcohol, not mineral spirits.

Meanwhile, the operation went well. I got clutch pushrod seal out without any significant consternation. I used a paint can opener and then a normal seal puller.

I found the clutch pushrod had significant rust and pitting.


I cleaned it up with #600 sandpaper,


...and I'm still not confident it will be trouble-free. I was surprised to find the OEM part is still available for $7.58, so I ordered new one.

The bore inside the slave was pitted, so did the best I could to smooth it with #320 sandpaper. It still has some minor pitting, but I think it will be OK.

So, I'll go back to my V65 frame swap project while I wait a week for parts...

-Mike

 

[MaxMidnight]

I cleaned it up with #600 sandpaper,
...to smooth it with #320 sandpaper. It still has some minor pitting, but I think it will be OK.

I hope you mean emery or wet and dry paper; using sandpaper is a bad idea particularly if you used 320 on the slave.
I a) would never use sandpaper and b) never use anything so coarse on the slave.

 

[Fire-medic]

I buy new parts complete for things like slave cylinders and master cylinders, they are relatively cheap, and if the rebuild/repair fails, you can be in a world of hurt.

I spoke with my friend the Yamaha mechanic of nearly 50 years yesterday. He told me that in the past he had drilled a hole in the master cylinder end where the banjo bolt is at a 90 degree, to be able to place a punch into the hole, to drive-out a stuck piston. He would then tap the hole and put a bolt in there w/sealant. If I tried something like that, I would want to weld an aluminum rod piece there to give more threads for the bolt to 'bite,' after you tapped it.

As to cleaning bores up, I usually use wet-or-dry like 400 after cleaning up what I can reach with a brass-bristle wheel and a Dremel tool. I use whatever size socket gives me a close-fit when wrapped with the wet-or-dry, and one of those hex-to-1/4" adapters for a drill attached to the socket, and a cordless drill, to clean-up the bore. It goes very quickly, it works best if you frequently clean the sandpaper of residue, to allow it to cut better. I use a wire brush to scrape off the build-up off the sandpaper, and then make another few passes. Repeat until you get a smooth surface.

 

[Radioguylogs]

I started wet sanding the slave with 600#, but it wasn't doing the job, so I picked up a used piece of 320# and continued.

I have never seen a new slave, but I thought master cylinders and other 'pumps' sometimes have a grooves inside the bore that function like crosshatching on a combustion cylinder.

Based on the reaction I got here, maybe I'd better go back over it with 600#, but I can say this job is not as bad as the V65 slave I successfully cleaned up last winter (below), so I was not too worried about it.

 

[Fire-medic]

What's done is done, it is what it is, do what you like, do what you will, the repair is done, I hope your leakage is nil.

Just keep an eye on it. If it doesn't start to seep, you should be OK, you might try placing a paper towel mat under there to check for any re-occurrence of the leak.

Do you 'reverse-bleed?' Using a syringe to push brake fluid up-from the slave cyl bleeder nipple, to fill the clutch master cylinder? It's much-quicker to get a firm lever, and it forces any residual air in the lines up and out of the lines since we know from watching a freshly-poured glass of Guinness stout, 'bubbles rise.' It works well on brakes, too.

 

[Radioguylogs]

I do a hybrid approach to bleeding, although I am attracted to your syringe idea.

I put 4' long hose on the bleeder, and pump until fluid fills the tube about 1-2', then I blow backward and push fluid backward through the system. Then I use the normal bleeding approach to finish (open bleeder, pump, close bleeder, repeat).

If I can't get the fluid to pump, sometime I have to suck on the tube to prime the master cylinder.

 

[sdt354]

I do a hybrid approach to bleeding, although I am attracted to your syringe idea.

I put 4' long hose on the bleeder, and pump until fluid fills the tube about 2-3", then I blow backward and push fluid backward through the system. Then I use the normal bleeding approach to finish (open bleeder, pump, close bleeder, repeat).

If I can't get the fluid to pump, sometime I have to suck on the tube to prime the master cylinder.

I do the long tube method too on difficult to bleed applications. And use the syringe to get the master bled quickly. Then I can use the master lever to finish up.

 

[Radioguylogs]

Clutch pushrod came on Sunday, so I promptly installed it with the new pushrod seal.

After reading the reaction form the community here, I did polish the bore of the slave with 600# and then 2000# before I put in the new seals. It was shiny by the time I was done.

I was really disappointed the replacement copper crush washer I ordered between the slave and the line coupler didn't seat in the recessed area where it is supposed to. The ID was OK, but the OD was way too big. I checked and the washer P/N on the (pre-opened) bag was correct. I tried using the old one, but I didn't pay enough attention when I installed the coupler, and I torqued it without the washer seated in the recess. It leaked. I saw my mistake right away, but now I can't use the bent original washer, and I don't want to order the wrong size again. I went to the hardware store.They only had SAE sizes, so I had to buy one with a very similar OD, and drill out the ID. Drilling was a challenge, so I clamped it between two big washers to hold it safely while that big bit kept trying to dig in. The modified washer turned out nice.

Moral: Use a small screwdriver to hold the washer in the recess as you tighten the coupler.

Bleeding downward was successful, but I didn't get all the air out. I used the long tube to blow backward and it cleared the bubbles easily, so I could finish with a good downward flush.

So, no brake fluid leak after 3 days!!!!

I still have to button up the middle case cover and put the oil back in the engine. Then we'll know the pushrod seal is happy.

This seems like a long thread for a simple problem.....

-Mike

 

[[email protected]]

Sounds like you got it covered.
Almost every repair turns into more work than anticipated whether its the vmax, the wife's car, the kids dirtbike, etc...

 

[Radioguylogs]

Isn't it the truth?

At least it feels good when you finally get it right.