Critical Mass Yet Again - ‘90 Gen1

[desert_max]

I almost hate to continue along the vein of the 90 Vmax thread topic, but feel compelled to let you guys know that I might’ve screwed up.

If you reread my first couple paragraphs, you know that I have a penchant for picking up lost, forlorn orphans. This one was no different. It started, ran and revved briefly but gas was pouring out of it. Bad float needles you know. So it only ran briefly.

Well, my carburetor troubles are behind me, but I am finding that I should’ve let it run a little longer when buying it, and listened a little closer. There’s a hard tapping, and I am fairly certain it is the top end of cylinder number four. I’m really hopeful that it’s valve train only. At least I hope that’s the extent of it.

The oil was thin as water from the dilution of the gasoline that the carburetors were generously distributing everywhere. I thought that fresh oil might help. Nice thick 15/40 Rotella in there now. Still noisy as heck. No joy.

I’m almost tempted to cut my losses and dump the thing, but something says stick with it. So, it’s coming apart again… At least the carbs and the valve covers are coming off. Hopefully, something will be intuitively obvious and it will not require head removal. Or worse. The real bummer is that it runs extremely well. Like a Vmax.

I knew the thing needed some love, but I didn’t think it needed this much. It needs valve cover gaskets anyway since it’s been leaking for God knows how long. But I don’t know what I’m gonna find when I get in there… Assuming I can actually “find” anything.

I can hear Fire Medic already. I know how he is when he buys a project. Tighter than bark on a tree. Or tighter than Willie Nelson‘s hatband. I picked this one up pretty cheap, and frankly it was essentially free after the sale of the 05 anniversary bike. But still.

The saga continues…

 

[Radioguylogs]

Don't feel like you screwed up. It's just a matter of what you find and what you want to do.

I bought a low mile V65, only to find the odometer was rolled back, and the many things were really screwed up. It took a lot of work and $$ to get it back into shape. Just as I was finishing, I discovered the frame was bent, so I had to replace the frame. I loved that bike when it was done....but dang it, the lodge owner bought it from me when I took it to a rally last fall. I got more money than I invested, and I learned a ton. So now I just have to use the money to rebuild another one.

I'm quite certain you will find a way to be happy with that bike purchase.

 

[user 16790]

I hope it turns out to be an easy fix or at least not overly expensive for you

 

[Screwloose]

I almost hate to continue along the vein of the 90 Vmax thread topic, but feel compelled to let you guys know that I might’ve screwed up.

If you reread my first couple paragraphs, you know that I have a penchant for picking up lost, forlorn orphans. This one was no different. It started, ran and revved briefly but gas was pouring out of it. Bad float needles you know. So it only ran briefly.

Well, my carburetor troubles are behind me, but I am finding that I should’ve let it run a little longer when buying it, and listened a little closer. There’s a hard tapping, and I am fairly certain it is the top end of cylinder number four. I’m really hopeful that it’s valve train only. At least I hope that’s the extent of it.

The oil was thin as water from the dilution of the gasoline that the carburetors were generously distributing everywhere. I thought that fresh oil might help. Nice thick 15/40 Rotella in there now. Still noisy as heck. No joy.

I’m almost tempted to cut my losses and dump the thing, but something says stick with it. So, it’s coming apart again… At least the carbs and the valve covers are coming off. Hopefully, something will be intuitively obvious and it will not require head removal. Or worse. The real bummer is that it runs extremely well. Like a Vmax.

I knew the thing needed some love, but I didn’t think it needed this much. It needs valve cover gaskets anyway since it’s been leaking for God knows how long. But I don’t know what I’m gonna find when I get in there… Assuming I can actually “find” anything.

I can hear Fire Medic already. I know how he is when he buys a project. Tighter than bark on a tree. Or tighter than Willie Nelson‘s hatband. I picked this one up pretty cheap, and frankly it was essentially free after the sale of the 05 anniversary bike. But still.

The saga continues…

We say tighter than a camels arse in a sandstorm, and some others not so polite.

Anyway looks like the bike has been worked on by a novice that gave up. So it could easily be someone has closed or opened a gap too far on the valve clearances, when its too tight it just gets tighter when the engine warms up.

I’m sure you know all that, just trying to console you in some way at times of obvious grief, before you plunge in.

 

[Fire-medic]

My wife did her own calculations during the pandemic last year, using the data supplied by the government, she was looking for trends and such. As an engineer (E.E.), she has told me, "I deal in data." Any used vehicle with issues, which is likely all of them, needs to be assessed for faults, worn parts, operational efficiency, safety, and cost of work. Once the data is in, decision time! What can be done to make the vehicle operational and reliable? What is a safety issue, once the thing is running? And probably most-importantly, the budget, and arriving at a 'go/no-go' decision, "am I in for the expense of returning this to the street/water/trail/racetrack?" Of course, if the answer is no, the choices are part it out, sell it as-is, or scrap it. Fortunately, there are enough riders on-here looking for a gearset without rounded dogs, a set of tins, side covers, a wire loom, electrical components, etc.

Desert_max will arrive at the 'go/no-go' point, and he will know if it's time for rotation or to shut it down, and choose the alternative best-suiting this vehicle.

 

[CaptainKyle]

Good luck ! Hopefully it turns out something simple and not like the next to the last one I bought !

 

[desert_max]

Thanks guys. So much for another quick turnaround.

My problem is that by the end of June it becomes cost prohibitive to keep the shop cool and my work out there pretty much grinds to a halt for a few months. I had a couple of other things I wanted to get to before that happened, but this sure threw a monkey wrench in the works.

Asi es la vida.

 

[desert_max]

...on a lighter note, I guess I am still on a quest to find my ultimate Gen1. Not over the top, but nice, solid, fast and reliable. The more I think about it, the more I'm coming to realize I ALREADY HAVE IT! This darn '86 is going to be a tough one to knock off the pedestal.

 

[desert_max]

So close and yet so far. I was ready to go, the bike looks good and is running great. Or was. Just before the second surgery:



I have good news and I have bad news. The good news is, nothing is visually broken, overheated or worn out. The bad news is nothing is visually broken, overheated or worn out.

I will do a valve clearance verification when I work up the nerve, but if everything is close or within tolerance, I have no explanation for the noise. I suppose it’s entirely possible that the noise doesn’t even originate on the top end as I thought and is traveling from somewhere else. But the screwdriver stethoscope trick sure does suggest it’s in that valve train area for cylinder number four.

Oh, and one more thing. Remind me never to attempt pulling the front valve cover again without removing the carburetors. Tried to take a shortcut and did nothing more than irritate myself.

 

[02GF74]

Unless you have heard the same noise many times before, they are notoriously hard to identify.

Can you tell if it occurs on in sync with engine rpm=piston, crank/rod beearings or at 1/2 rpm = valve train/exhaust?

Stupid question but have you checked sparks are secure and in good condition and done a compression test?

 

[Screwloose]

So close and yet so far. I was ready to go, the bike looks good and is running great. Or was.

The screwdriver method has never failed me, I think your in the right area.

taking those valve covers off is very time consuming, I took the carbs out, but what a pain in the arse job.

There is one thing that may be food for thought for you. When I had the covers off the camshafts would form surface rust within a couple of days (could be our atmosphere even in the summer) I would pour small amounts of differential oil on them. It worked but i’ve never seen camshafts get surface rust that quick. When one of your previous posts said spewing fuel ( and I had the same) maybe your cams at the spewing area 3 or 4 i think, got some fuel on the cam and cleaned it promoting a very clean cam with some **** and wear in that area.

I could be talking complete ****, but I now start Trigger every two weeks at least to keep the surface rust off the cams. There was no pitting on the cams after I would run the bike again. Weird.

Here’s hoping its something fairly easy to cure.

Nice bike I like it.

 

[02GF74]

I could be talking complete ****, but I now start Trigger every two weeks at least to keep the surface rust off the cams. There was no pitting on the cams after I would run the bike again.

When you do the fortnightly runs yer oughta let the engine get up to full temperature and a few minutes more. This would ensure that water, a byproduct of combustion, is evaporated by the heat that would otherwise condense on the cams to exacerbate the problem. Also longer runs replace the electrical juice in the battery that was used to start the engine.

 

[Screwloose]

When you do the fortnightly runs yer oughta let the engine get up to full temperature and a few minutes more. This would ensure that water, a byproduct of combustion, is evaporated by the heat that would otherwise condense on the cams to exacerbate the problem. Also longer runs replace the electrical juice in the battery that was used to start the engine.

Thanks, I let Trigger get up to temp, fan comes on and cools down the engine, then I switch off.

Definitely correct with the battery mate, i’ve got a sports car and only done 15k miles in ten years, I get battery problems with very short journeys, and even destroyed about 3 batteries in this car by being lazy with recharging (and unfortunately having a modern battery in it where a few volts drop can make the battery unrecoverable).The last 3 years i’ve always removed the battery after a run, Store it and give it a trickle charge every few weeks. That works, but as you say lack of use is the battery killer, and vehicle charging systems are trickle charging only so needs a bit of time to get the power back in for your next start.

 

[02GF74]

Thanks, I let Trigger get up to temp, fan comes on and cools down the engine, then I switch off.

Definitely correct with the battery mate, i’ve got a sports car and only done 15k miles in ten years, I get battery problems with very short journeys, and even destroyed about 3 batteries in this car by being lazy with recharging (and unfortunately having a modern battery in it where a few volts drop can make the battery unrecoverable).The last 3 years i’ve always removed the battery after a run, Store it and give it a trickle charge every few weeks. That works, but as you say lack of use is the battery killer, and vehicle charging systems are trickle charging only so needs a bit of time to get the power back in for your next start.

What car is it?

Well I can beat that, I had a lotus 7 type kit car that did under 1,300 miles in 14 years, sold it last year a£ it didn't make sense to keep it. It had an oddessy (sp?) pc680 which lasted for over 10 years despite being left alone for a long time with no chraging/usage. For the annual MOT I would run some fine wet n dry paper through the points, remove 2 spark plugs to help turn the engine over and it would pretty much start. And run surprisingly smoothly even on 2 cylinders.

Yes, waiting until the fan to kick in is a good thing.

 

[Screwloose]

What car is it?

Well I can beat that, I had a lotus 7 type kit car that did under 1,300 miles in 14 years, sold it last year a£ it didn't make sense to keep it. It had an oddessy (sp?) pc680 which lasted for over 10 years despite being left alone for a long time with no chraging/usage. For the annual MOT I would run some fine wet n dry paper through the points, remove 2 spark plugs to help turn the engine over and it would pretty much start. And run surprisingly smoothly even on 2 cylinders.

Yes, waiting until the fan to kick in is a good thing.

I love old cars and fiddling around with points and dwell angles lol, best times of my youth that was, changing gearbox’s in the rain . Trying benzine in the fuel tank. Fooling the local girls that the switch on the dash of my viva was the turbo, and various other mad things. When i was young working in the street on a car pulled you many birds.

i’ve included a photo of my sports car, ii’ve usually bought unusual cars like yourself by the sounds of things. This car went from glasgow to stroud to fleet every couple of years and that was it. The back suspension i need to investigate soon as its dropped in one side, change the brakes, and now i’ve blown the exhaust by not using it. Also i damaged the seat belt one day by jumping in the car too quickly, damn.

i would really miss it if i sold it, so hang onto it over the years, It just sits round my back now, covered but unused.

love the lotus, i would dream about them when i was younger.

 

[Fire-medic]

A couple of good driver's cars, in the last posts. I assume the Lotus 'kit car' was a Caterham?

When I was attending college in MI starting about the time of Woodstock, one of the guys on campus had a collection of cars, he would drive different ones, that's how I met him, because I saw him pull-up on a brisk fall day in his genuine Lotus 7, and I went-over to talk him up on it. He said, "you're one of the few people who know what this is!" He took me for a ride, and it was very-impressive with the Kent engine in it. You could actually lean over the side, sitting in it, and touch the pavement. His family owned a business supplying the auto industry and the mobile home industry.

At various times, he had a Ferrari 250GT, a Pantera, and an Austin-Healy 3000.

 

[Screwloose]

A couple of good driver's cars, in the last posts. I assume the Lotus 'kit car' was a Caterham?

When I was attending college in MI starting about the time of Woodstock, one of the guys on campus had a collection of cars, he would drive different ones, that's how I met him, because I saw him pull-up on a brisk fall day in his genuine Lotus 7, and I went-over to talk him up on it. He said, "you're one of the few people who know what this is!" He took me for a ride, and it was very-impressive with the Kent engine in it. You could actually lean over the side, sitting in it, and touch the pavement. His family owned a business supplying the auto industry and the mobile home industry.

At various times, he had a Ferrari 250GT, a Pantera, and an Austin-Healy 3000.

The Caterham is so well sought after here and in EU. Knew a guy from Greece that was looking for two of them to ship over. Never driven the Caterham but would love the chance to. I’ve heard it’s near to perfection.
We still get austin healey’s here, truly a lovely shape.

 

[Screwloose]

What car is it?

Well I can beat that, I had a lotus 7 type kit car that did under 1,300 miles in 14 years, sold it last year a£ it didn't make sense to keep it. It had an oddessy (sp?) pc680 which lasted for over 10 years despite being left alone for a long time with no chraging/usage. For the annual MOT I would run some fine wet n dry paper through the points, remove 2 spark plugs to help turn the engine over and it would pretty much start. And run surprisingly smoothly even on 2 cylinders.

Yes, waiting until the fan to kick in is a good thing.

Do you have a photo of the kit car you had

 

[desert_max]

We still get austin healey’s here, truly a lovely shape.

Except for the Bugeye. I had a 59.

 

[Fire-medic]

A neighbor has a 'bugeye' A-H Sprite and a BMC Mini he takes out on occasional trips around the community. So-cute! It looks like the two take-up as-much space as a Road King with a sidecar, in the driveway.