Damn dirty unions...

[srk468]

It's obviously all their fault....

http://thinkprogress.org/economy/20...er-the-blame-for-hostesss-downfall/?mobile=wt

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[ouchez]

Well then, let us see what God Obama will do about it!!

After all, he is the savior of the working man, abortionist, and Illegal Immigrant.

O

 

[twistedmax]

It was obvious to me from the start this was just to bust the union ! I worked at a union shop (closed now) The last contract we negotiated was way to easy, they gave us everything we wanted(i was on the commitee) I told the member ship it was to easy,I thought they were up to somthing, just over a year into the contract they sold out and moved the work to mexico.

The place Im at now(non union) just cut us back to three days a week, Ive watched them piss away $$$ for the last 15 months, I think their up to somthing too, but this time I think It will be to restructure for the better, only time will tell.

 

[srk468]

I'm nbama lover for sure but just thought I'd throw out there that not everything is the unions fault...

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[MR_NST]

im a proud union guy. ua 179 plumbers, pipefitters, welders, sprinklerfitters. there are good unions and bad unions. I am in an awesome union.... kinda biased I know, but its what puts food on the table.

there is corruption, deciet, lies, thevery and deception everywhere. union and non union. its funny that big media is the first to blame... they are the worst at fucking up stories.

just remember that without our union predicessors, Most would be without pensions, benefits of any kind, A 40 HOUR WORK WEEK, child labour laws, and any kind of OH+S type of system.

wether you are pro unoin or anti unoin. you have to appreciate tthese basic things we take for granted.....

sorry for.the spelling errors, I did this off my shit phone.

peace,
evan....

 

[ouchez]

Unions and managment must be responsible as to not kill the company, and that also goes to the Gov. being responsible too,,otherwise jobs will continue to flow out of the US to slave wage and no regulation countries.

Hostess managment AND the union are to blame equally for the demise of Hostess,,just as UAW and GM killed the old GM,,and will surely kill the new Obama GM.

O

 

[srk468]

Unions and managment must be responsible as to not kill the company, and that also goes to the Gov. being responsible too,,otherwise jobs will continue to flow out of the US to slave wage and no regulation countries.

Hostess managment AND the union are to blame equally for the demise of Hostess,,just as UAW and GM killed the old GM,,and will surely kill the new Obama GM.

O

I agree with that 100% and I'm a teamster...

 

[06VMAXIMUS]

Greed at the top is what forces companies to move their business to China and other third world countries. I have always said: "it all starts at the top". Hostess is just using this as a union busting move. They want to get the union out, hire people for minimum wage with no benefits, then the top cocks can kick back and enjoy their million dollar bonuses. Its B.S.!

 

[MR_NST]

Hostess is just using this as a union busting move. They want to get the union out, hire people for minimum wage with no benefits, then the top cocks can kick back and enjoy their million dollar bonuses. Its B.S.!

very well said, I agree completly. its the widening of the classes and happening more often. I think unions provide a stronger voice to keep us middle class - middle class.

IN SOLIDARITY WE STAND, DIVIDED WE FALL.

peace,
evan

 

[Rusty McNeil]

My dad was IBEW from 1940 till 1972, he wouldn't have amounted to anything if it wasn't for the union. He was one of 13 German immigrant kids with a 6th grade education and out on the streets at 16 years old. A union guy saw potential in him and was his mentor.
He ended up making the decision to sell his business, signing a 5 year no compete, and re-opened as a merit shop after that period.
Purely a financial decision, a union shop simply could not compete in the west texas oil fields back then. It was that or starve.
During that five years he was what is known as a "traveler" hitting huge projects all over the country, and a member of the FLE's which was a secret order of the IBEW.
HE left as a staunch Union man, and returned with a very bad taste in his mouth after seeing how the "real world" was as compared to the small town atmosphere of guys who worked for the company and not the union.
I remember him saying he was going to strangle the next son of a bitch that said "that's not my job" and talking about deliberate work "slowages" to prolong projects as long as possible, and guys making fun of those who actually considered the financial outlook of the employer as something important, or deriding guys who actually worked as if they wanted to be "kept on" for the next project.

Nonetheless, the union had its place and still does, but largely have priced themselves out of the market in a lot of states.

Our sister company, Dacon, which means Dashiell construction, is the guys who do all the "putting together" of the substations we build, they are Union and are exceptional, get paid well above average and have more work than they can handle because in spite of the cost the output is of exceptional quality and the customers know it. The company and the union have fostered a culture of company lifers that really do care about the company, the quality of work, the customers, and taking care of your people.
The union has a priority of providing the industry with guys who have well above average skills and training, not just a revenue collector that's there to fight with the employers.
The company has made it a priority to take very good care of the good ones who give a shit and get rid of the ones who don't.

It's a feel good story not often seen between labor and management these days.

 

[one2dmax]

IAM (Internation Assocation of Machinists) for over 10 years and now SPEEA (Society of Professional Engineering Employees in Aerospace) for 5 years and counting.

I have seen both sides abuse their powers and i'll be dammed to say one side or the other is completely at fault. Too many fat cat executives are getting rich and richer for it to be the union killing jobs. Special thanks to NAFTA for killing the middle class.

Sean

 

[Rusty McNeil]

I agree, union costs and pensions might be a part if it but when executives are getting huge pay increases going into a bankruptcy it reeks of disingenuous behaviour.
Good CEO's have become like sports stars in that it takes a lot of money to get/keep good ones, unfortunately its brought the pay scale up for the crappy ones too.

And +1 on the NAFTA thing. I little protectionism is not a bad thing. Do we really need cheap crap at Walmart that bad?

 

[Klatuu]

Top ten Union Bosses at Bakery, Confection, Tobacco Workers & Grain Millers:

FRANK HURT PRESIDENT $262,654.00
DAVID DURKEE SECRETARY-TREASURER $244,396.00
JOSEPH THIBODEAU EXEC VICE PRESIDENT $218,989.00
STEVE BERTELLI VICE PRESIDENT $198,062.00
MICHAEL KONESKO VICE PRESIDENT $184,297.00
ARTHUR MONTMINY VICE PRESIDENT $175,505.00
ANTHONY JOHNSON VICE PRESIDENT $167,433.00
ROBERT OAKLEY VICE PRESIDENT $167,265.00
RANDY ROARK VICE PRESIDENT $166,849.00
SEAN KELLY VICE PRESIDENT $161,789.00

All still have their jobs.

 

[ouchez]

Exposed!!!

Crooks like the CEO's.:damn angry:

O

 

[Rusty McNeil]

Top ten Union Bosses at Bakery, Confection, Tobacco Workers & Grain Millers:

FRANK HURT PRESIDENT $262,654.00
DAVID DURKEE SECRETARY-TREASURER $244,396.00
JOSEPH THIBODEAU EXEC VICE PRESIDENT $218,989.00
STEVE BERTELLI VICE PRESIDENT $198,062.00
MICHAEL KONESKO VICE PRESIDENT $184,297.00
ARTHUR MONTMINY VICE PRESIDENT $175,505.00
ANTHONY JOHNSON VICE PRESIDENT $167,433.00
ROBERT OAKLEY VICE PRESIDENT $167,265.00
RANDY ROARK VICE PRESIDENT $166,849.00
SEAN KELLY VICE PRESIDENT $161,789.00

All still have their jobs.

That's crazy low numbers...

We have techs in the field knocking down as much as their Vice Presidents, including about 1000 hours a year of OT.

 

[ouchez]

Rusty,

My two sons have PharmD's and they are not close to those Vice President union bosses.

Rusty, I am shocked that those wages sit well with you,,,as you state for you to make that much you need a 1000 hours of overtime, and you are working your asses off, not bullshitting in a suit or on the golf course.

I am outraged at these salaries, just as I am at the CEO's,,,(are you really OK with that:confused2::ummm:??).

O

 

[one2dmax]

What do you expect a good salary is for someone in charge of 1000's of workers. This amount PALES to the amounts of the CEO's.

Sean

 

[Rusty McNeil]

Yes I am ok with those salaries. I am a believer in the free market, wages/salaries included. These companies don't pay that kind of money to their execs just to be nice, any more than they give you or I a raise to be nice, they do it to get and keep good talent. The same decision making process they go through in deciding what you and I are worth applies to the highest levels of a company.
Those guys typically have a couple of expensive degrees, 6-8 years college, work 50-70 hour weeks and are available 24/7 for their companies needs.
While you and I were screwing around in college or high school or early in our careers looking forward to the end of the day or the coming of the weekend they were buckled down learning what they needed to get where they are. I have the pleasure of knowing a lot of men like this and for the most part their job IS their life.
Every man is worth what the market will bear. If your easily replaceable well then your market worth just isn't that great. If you make yourself invaluable then you are.

They don't leave their work in the workplace at the end of the day, it goes home with them along with all the worries and anxieties of so much responsibility. Most of them live and breath their work because they actually enjoy it.
The things they do can make or break a company, and their decisions can have a huge impact on the destiny of a company, way beyond if you or I "screw something up" one day.
Their decisions have lasting impact on many people and the responsibility they carry is so for far beyond what we do its not even funny.

I hope some one doesn't decide one day that I make too much money, even though I have almost no life, dedicate myself to the company, never say no, and am willing to travel 9 months out the year and they see what I make and decide that it's too much even though they could give a shit when five o'clock comes about what happens after that. I just happen to be in a market that is severely short of good talent. I could have put just as much effort into a different skill set that's not in demand or is flooded with talent and be making half as much.
Free market at work here.

I guess I think a little different than many because even though I came from a Union family, that family was in Business, not employees of another. I saw personally what it takes to do that, and how much of a person it uses up, and how little it leaves for their home life.
At the end of the day it's what you make of it. Guys who don't give a shit about their companies well being are like the plague and the death of a company, whether they're in an executive suite or out on the floor.

I AM NOT Defending this hostess situation, or dirty rotten execs of any sort. Just like crappy employees there are crappy execs and managers willing to ride a good horse into the ground.
I full well realize that there are turds of many colors out there in all levels of the economy. Things I say, good and bad, don't apply to everyone and I'm not painting them all with the same brush.
The shitty ones get weeded out eventually, its just a fact that sometimes they do a lot of damage before its contained.

BIG GIANT EDIT-----------------------------

After typing all this I then realized that it was a list of Union Bosses, I though it was a list of Hostess execs. ..........

OOPS!

Everything I said still applies tho, these guys work for the union members, its between then and their members. They have elections right????
If their just there to get rich on the backs of workers then they're assholes, because a union IS NOT A BUSINESS.
It should be an altruistic endeavor, which a business is most certainly not nor should it be.
If it can't be checked or fixed then its just a dirty deal that's " part of being union"

Ever read "Animal Farm" ?

It has a direct correlation to the self inflicted pain a bad union can bring upon their members.....

 

[Klatuu]

Union bosses create nothing of value. A CEO who is doing his job, does.

One of these days, we'll class those who caterwaul about the "greed" of other people with those who prattle on about the "lust" of others.

If someone commits a crime, prosecute them. If not, stay the fuck out of their bedroom & their wallet.

"The human race divides politically into those who want people to be controlled and those who have no such desire." ? Robert A. Heinlein

 

[Rusty McNeil]

Union bosses create nothing of value. A CEO who is doing his job, does.

One of these days, we'll class those who caterwaul about the "greed" of other people with those who prattle on about the "lust" of others.

If someone commits a crime, prosecute them. If not, stay the fuck out of their bedroom & their wallet.

"The human race divides politically into those who want people to be controlled and those who have no such desire." ? Robert A. Heinlein

Holy shit you just struck a chord.

Robert Heinlein has so many good quotes its insane. I own every book he's written.