Damn dirty unions...

[m-cman]

Holy shit you just struck a chord.

Robert Heinlein has so many good quotes its insane. I own every book he's written.

Yea, another sci-fi nerd!!! :clapping:

I used to have all his books and of course read them all. When I had to move, I sold all my sci-fi books in one lot on eBay. Several hundred... The shipping cost was astronomical!! :biglaugh:

 

[[email protected]]

Well said, Rusty. I agree with all that you wrote.

Just last week I was out to dinner with a man that gave me some advice. He told me that when you see an opportunity you don't say no. You take it. Even if it means more hrs, more stress, sleepless nights, less time with your family. Even if you don't see how it is going to pay off now. You need to look at the big picture. Taking the opportunity, doing the best that you can with it, and succeding at it, is a stepping stone to a better future. These things lead to more opportunity. Don't take it lightly. And don't underestimate your ability.

I trust this mans opinion because I know what he has done with his life. To say it is impressive is an understatement. He is one of the few I have met that have done really well. I have noticed that the ones that do well have common traits. Hard work, dedication, drive, intelligence, and the want to keep learning. There are always exceptions to the rule but I think most people that are sitting at the head of the table, earning 6 figures plus, did not get there the easy way!

Yes I am ok with those salaries. I am a believer in the free market, wages/salaries included. These companies don't pay that kind of money to their execs just to be nice, any more than they give you or I a raise to be nice, they do it to get and keep good talent. The same decision making process they go through in deciding what you and I are worth applies to the highest levels of a company.
Those guys typically have a couple of expensive degrees, 6-8 years college, work 50-70 hour weeks and are available 24/7 for their companies needs.
While you and I were screwing around in college or high school or early in our careers looking forward to the end of the day or the coming of the weekend they were buckled down learning what they needed to get where they are. I have the pleasure of knowing a lot of men like this and for the most part their job IS their life.
Every man is worth what the market will bear. If your easily replaceable well then your market worth just isn't that great. If you make yourself invaluable then you are.

They don't leave their work in the workplace at the end of the day, it goes home with them along with all the worries and anxieties of so much responsibility. Most of them live and breath their work because they actually enjoy it.
The things they do can make or break a company, and their decisions can have a huge impact on the destiny of a company, way beyond if you or I "screw something up" one day.
Their decisions have lasting impact on many people and the responsibility they carry is so for far beyond what we do its not even funny.

I hope some one doesn't decide one day that I make too much money, even though I have almost no life, dedicate myself to the company, never say no, and am willing to travel 9 months out the year and they see what I make and decide that it's too much even though they could give a shit when five o'clock comes about what happens after that. I just happen to be in a market that is severely short of good talent. I could have put just as much effort into a different skill set that's not in demand or is flooded with talent and be making half as much.
Free market at work here.

I guess I think a little different than many because even though I came from a Union family, that family was in Business, not employees of another. I saw personally what it takes to do that, and how much of a person it uses up, and how little it leaves for their home life.
At the end of the day it's what you make of it. Guys who don't give a shit about their companies well being are like the plague and the death of a company, whether they're in an executive suite or out on the floor.

I AM NOT Defending this hostess situation, or dirty rotten execs of any sort. Just like crappy employees there are crappy execs and managers willing to ride a good horse into the ground.
I full well realize that there are turds of many colors out there in all levels of the economy. Things I say, good and bad, don't apply to everyone and I'm not painting them all with the same brush.
The shitty ones get weeded out eventually, its just a fact that sometimes they do a lot of damage before its contained.

 

[Fire-medic]

I grok.
"Share water?"

Yea, another sci-fi nerd!!! :clapping:

I used to have all his books and of course read them all. When I had to move, I sold all my sci-fi books in one lot on eBay. Several hundred... The shipping cost was astronomical!! :biglaugh:

 

[ouchez]

Far too many people are willing to bend over and take it up the asses from CEO's, Union Bosses, Politicians, and church leaders,,,we are sheep.

We were willing to kill thousands of our own kids in useless lies of wars, such as Korea, Vietnam, Iraq and Afghanistan. We are happy paying our union bosses 6 times the 40 hour salary of the people they represent. We sit back and vote the same two parties in office that have allowed our jobs by the millions to be exported to slave wage 3rd world countries, so when our vets do come home they have no job. We have a chance to vote in a man like Ross Perot who was against Nafta and we blow him off. We are happpy to pay ceo's millions upon millions and they get the same or lower tax rate than the people making $60,000 a year.

The sad fact is the vast majority of people in the US deserve what is coming our way, at the hands of a rotten chocked off economy presented by bought off, so called, leaders and public servants, including union bosses, church leaders etc.,,and a new Dictatorship planted in Washington DC.

Our Forefathers worst fears are coming to pass, courtesy of the two party system and very stupid, lazy, ignorant, uncaring, easily led, populace.:damn angry:

O

 

[88vmx12]

over all I am just unhappy that I can have no mo HO's

 

[ZackDaniels]

I remember him saying he was going to strangle the next son of a bitch that said "that's not my job" and talking about deliberate work "slowages" to prolong projects as long as possible, and guys making fun of those who actually considered the financial outlook of the employer as something important, or deriding guys who actually worked as if they wanted to be "kept on" for the next project.

This shit runs rampant in unions and private business, and it's not even exclusive to the trades. It boils down to hall, foreman, or contractor running a tight ship or not. My old man was a union electrician for years and years and he'd sometimes tell me about a job where they would have 5 guys for 2 weeks for a job that required maybe 1 week of 1 competent guy's time. They would have 3 or 4 guys pushing a cart full of supplies up and down a hall all day just to appear 'busy'.

I went into computers and worked with a non-union small <10 man consulting company for a couple years. I saw the exact same shit going on but instead of pushing carts it was computer monitors with senseless scans and graphics going by to appear 'busy'.

It's all about the bid for the job really. If the client agreed to x many hours and didn't shop it out then you'll have this kind of crap. When an hourly job is overbid typically the contractor union or not, tradesmen or not, will do what they can to get what the client agreed to pay. It's an exception rather than a rule to have an honest shop get done sooner and bill less.

Anyway:

 

[MR_NST]

zack> as I said its all about the type of shop, I agree completely with your last post. im proud to be in my hall. NO SENIORITY! thats a big difference. you dont work or dont produce, out the fuckin door and dont let it hit ya. lol. I get paid Very well and I deserve it.. everyone deserves good pay IF they are worth it. our contract is averaging 3.5% increase a year and its not looking to slow.

I feel I am blessed tho because I live in saskatchewan and the reccesion hasnt touched or economy in western canada. I hope it lasts.....

peace,

evan....

 

[bikedave99]

In the Hostess/Twinkie case it does seem telling that no other company has been willing to buy them up in while retaining the labor contracts and obligations. If would seem that if all a potential buyer had to do to make Hostess profitable was buy them and restructure the management that would be a no brainer. But, I don't know what purchase offers Hostess has rejected over the years as well... Dunno, this is outta my experience field for the most part

 

[Rusty McNeil]

I think hostess is on the verge of an "Atlas shrugged" mentality.

I dunno tho, are they publicly
Owned? If they are I'd think they'd be obligated to try anything to stay afloat versus taking their football an going home.

 

[poppop]

Far too many people are willing to bend over and take it up the asses from CEO's, Union Bosses, Politicians, and church leaders,,,we are sheep.

We were willing to kill thousands of our own kids in useless lies of wars, such as Korea, Vietnam, Iraq and Afghanistan. We are happy paying our union bosses 6 times the 40 hour salary of the people they represent. We sit back and vote the same two parties in office that have allowed our jobs by the millions to be exported to slave wage 3rd world countries, so when our vets do come home they have no job. We have a chance to vote in a man like Ross Perot who was against Nafta and we blow him off. We are happpy to pay ceo's millions upon millions and they get the same or lower tax rate than the people making $60,000 a year.

The sad fact is the vast majority of people in the US deserve what is coming our way, at the hands of a rotten chocked off economy presented by bought off, so called, leaders and public servants, including union bosses, church leaders etc.,,and a new Dictatorship planted in Washington DC.

Our Forefathers worst fears are coming to pass, courtesy of the two party system and very stupid, lazy, ignorant, uncaring, easily led, populace.:damn angry:

O

I completly agree! And wish you all the best.Yes were shepple.And i did vote for ross perot.Some dont see it others do.As far as the money thing goes,Damn id have a heart attack to even come close to that amount!Are they worth it,they would say yes.Some good and honest,some bad and greedy.My dad said to me once before he passed,Son are you living to work?or working to live?At the time i was working 16 to 18 hrs a day.And on call.I realized how much i had missed,And how many years i missed it!Enjoy life ,You only got this one!:confused2:

 

[MtnMax/Magniac]

Well, if the Mayans were right, we won't have to worry about it after Dec 21 . . .

 

[Maxine]

Far too many people are willing to bend over and take it up the asses from CEO's, Union Bosses, Politicians, and church leaders,,,we are sheep.

We were willing to kill thousands of our own kids in useless lies of wars, such as Korea, Vietnam, Iraq and Afghanistan. We are happy paying our union bosses 6 times the 40 hour salary of the people they represent. We sit back and vote the same two parties in office that have allowed our jobs by the millions to be exported to slave wage 3rd world countries, so when our vets do come home they have no job. We have a chance to vote in a man like Ross Perot who was against Nafta and we blow him off. We are happpy to pay ceo's millions upon millions and they get the same or lower tax rate than the people making $60,000 a year.

The sad fact is the vast majority of people in the US deserve what is coming our way, at the hands of a rotten chocked off economy presented by bought off, so called, leaders and public servants, including union bosses, church leaders etc.,,and a new Dictatorship planted in Washington DC.

Our Forefathers worst fears are coming to pass, courtesy of the two party system and very stupid, lazy, ignorant, uncaring, easily led, populace.:damn angry:

O

I agree with everything said here, except including the Korean war. I was stationed there for a tour back in the 80's. Most of the population truly appreciate the sacrifices made by US servicemen. They understand that if not for us and the support of 14 other countries, their way of life would not exist today. They have whole classes of schoolchildren who tend to the US military cemetery cutting grass by hand with scissors around the headstone's, and hand washing each and every one as well. The thing is, most of them consider it a great honor to do so as well.


Every year the Korean government brings US servicemen and women who served in the conflict back to Korea to be honored. All expenses...flight...hotel...meals...tours...etc are paid by the the South Korean Government. I could go on and on...but I'm sure you get my point.


OP...Sorry to go off topic here