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yankee in texas
Well-Known Member
I'd throw a pipe and a paint job on it ...
I'd throw a pipe and a paint job on it ...
and then kick it over. hail yaaa
max_caper
Well-Known Member
The scoops remind me a bit of the Max as does the shape of the exhaust but that trellis frame screams Ducati all the way. Reminds me more of a Monster with a low-slung exhaust and air scoops.
Knowing Ducati it'll probably do well in the twisties (as well as in the 1/4 mile) which may give Ducati an edge when customers want to spend 20 grand on a muscle cruiser!
It'll be interesting to see how Yamaha responds, if at all.
Blaine
Knowing Ducati it'll probably do well in the twisties (as well as in the 1/4 mile) which may give Ducati an edge when customers want to spend 20 grand on a muscle cruiser!
It'll be interesting to see how Yamaha responds, if at all.
Blaine
Quote "It'll be interesting to see how Yamaha responds, if at all."
Given that when the design brief for the Gen II was given out someone forgot to add 'And use current design and manufacturing process' and coupled with the precarious financial position of Yameringha then I would recommend that you don't hold your breath.
The only way I can see them competing would be a complete re-design that shaves 80 - 100 kilos of weight and a price that brings it back into the real world.
MCN last week reported on a sneaked ride of the Diavel and the comment 'The lack of weight was a revelation - I instantly felt the benefit of a dry weight of 207kg, a massive 103kg less than Yamaha's V Max' says it all.
If Ducati can build something that light then why couldn't Yamaha have produced something approaching that weight?
If they expect folk to pay over the odds for a motorcycle then the least they should do it ensure that it has cutting edge technology so one can start to justify the cost.
As it is I get the impression that they have dusted down a design that is some fifteen years old tarted it up at minimal cost then expect to customers to buy it (effectively) mail order.
No wonder they are in the state they are!!!!!!!!!!
Rant ends...
Given that when the design brief for the Gen II was given out someone forgot to add 'And use current design and manufacturing process' and coupled with the precarious financial position of Yameringha then I would recommend that you don't hold your breath.
The only way I can see them competing would be a complete re-design that shaves 80 - 100 kilos of weight and a price that brings it back into the real world.
MCN last week reported on a sneaked ride of the Diavel and the comment 'The lack of weight was a revelation - I instantly felt the benefit of a dry weight of 207kg, a massive 103kg less than Yamaha's V Max' says it all.
If Ducati can build something that light then why couldn't Yamaha have produced something approaching that weight?
If they expect folk to pay over the odds for a motorcycle then the least they should do it ensure that it has cutting edge technology so one can start to justify the cost.
As it is I get the impression that they have dusted down a design that is some fifteen years old tarted it up at minimal cost then expect to customers to buy it (effectively) mail order.
No wonder they are in the state they are!!!!!!!!!!
Rant ends...
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Thevmaxrider
Well-Known Member
Well said!!!
max_caper
Well-Known Member
That was a great rant...feel free to continue. I enjoyed it!
Brand loyalty is going to keep Gen-2's selling in the short term despite the inflated price and suspect fuel economy. Maybe Yamaha is counting on sales of the Raider and Stryker to cash in on the cruiser market. These bikes are arguably a couple of the best looking V-twin cruisers out there, but not muscle bikes in the same sense as the Max.
Blaine
you can't make a bike like a V-max with a V-2 engine..... someone must tell that to Ducati.... it is not just the horse power ...... iS the the feeling of a V-4 and THE SOUND of the V-4.
quoted for truth. theres a ton of fast vtwin bikes out there. but im just not in teh market for that
I totally agree with those sentiments! BUT......
We know Yameringha are capable of delivering cutting edge technology to the masses, the cross plane crank, variable length inlets, V Boost etc.
Whilst a V4 is probably going to weigh in heavier than a V twin, with modern design and casting techniques there is really no excuse for an additional 102kg of lard over the Diavel.
And lets not use the power output of the motor to justify this - BMW manage an HP per kg of 1.05 for the R1000SS whereas the Max is 0.65 and the Diavel 0.78.
max_caper
Well-Known Member
My belief is that Ducati is trying to offer an alternative power cruiser to what's currently out there, be it the M109, Rocket III, VRod, or V-max. Each current brand of muscle bike has its specific appeal to a certain share of the marketplace. IMO it makes no sense for Ducati to specifically target the VMax since the Max only commands a small portion of the total power cruiser market in terms of sales.
Buyers who may not have considered owning a lay-on-the-gas-tank racing Ducati might be tempted to buy one that offers upright ergos, muscle bike looks/performance, and handling.
In terms of marketing, the Gen-2 has priced itself into an area where buyers may be more tempted to go with an exotic brand of the same price, especially if all other factors (ergos, looks, performance, handling) are similar.
It may be a moot point to argue the virtues (sound/feel) of the Ducati L-twin on this forum but I sure like it!
Blaine
Diablotin
Well-Known Member
I (obviously) love the V-4 sound, but...
Ducatis have their own unique sound and appeal, though different than the VMax. The outrageous red, coupled with the trellis frame and engine sound, offer something quite unique. I'm afraid to go ride one...I might like it. My next bike should be a Concours or FJR, but I'm probably not that smart.
max_caper
Well-Known Member
I'm probably not that smart either but I bet I could fit a luggage bag or two on the Ducati and convince myself that it was practical, especially if the MPG are decent.
!The lightness and handling of the Ducati should make it an appealing package to riders who are growing tired of sportbike ergos but still want performance and handling.
It's hard to over-emphasize how lightness affects the fun factor of riding, especially on the twisties. On my recent trip to Deal's Gap I had more fun throwing my wife's 500 Ninja into the turns than my 1250 Bandit. A fellow Canuck who brought 2 bikes to the Gap said he had more fun and made better time around the Dragon with his Suzuki DR-Z400 than his GSXR-1000R.
A muscle bike that handles...almost sounds like a contradiction in terms!
Blaine
""""There were also photos of production bikes like Harley-Davidson's V-Rod, Confederate's Wraith and the original Yamaha V-Max. In fact, Janssen-Groesbeek created the first Diavel concept drawing by transposing a Ducati 1098 Superbike outline over the outline of an original V-Max."""
Testing staff, led by Andrea Gesi, benchmarked Star's V-Max and Harley-Davidson's V-Rod Muscle, scrutinizing power delivery, handling and ergonomics. They wanted the powerful visual presence of the Muscle without wonky handling and oversized ergonomics, and the power and acceleration of the V-Max without excess weight.
Ducati Style Center Senior Designer Bart Janssen-Groesbeek was tasked with creating the new machine. Coincidentally, the Dutchman-who arrived at Ducati in '02 after a stint at GK Group, Yamaha's industrial design division-had already been sketching some Yamaha V-Max-inspired power-cruiser concepts.
" be famous as the Vmax"
"Italian V-Max"
Attachments
i bet their design team all patted themselves on the back for such a revolutionary design!
edit: i cant believe they actually admitted it. and it better perform! its gonna make vmaxes look bad if it sucks.
like yamaha said when they put scoops on the gen 1, "if it looks fast... it better BE FAST!!"
edit: i cant believe they actually admitted it. and it better perform! its gonna make vmaxes look bad if it sucks.
like yamaha said when they put scoops on the gen 1, "if it looks fast... it better BE FAST!!"
Redbone
Well-Known Member
The Diavel is going to appeal to a little different market than the Gen2. I don't see how it's going to compete with the Vmax in stop light to stop light or drag strip in it's stock form. The wheelbase is shorter and it will be way down on the torque scale compared with the Vmax. The stop light scenario and drag strip are the Gen2's strongest suite for the non-professional riders that are going buying/ running the two bike against each other and with the Vmax being easier to launch and more torque is going to be a advantage. I foresee that the Diavel being harder to launch with it's shorter wheelbase and maybe less traction(traction control?).
The Diavel will be more of a bike for the canyons where it will be able to use it's pedigree handing and lighter weight to surprise a few sport bikes with it's grunt out of the corners. It should be interesting to see what happens in the magazines test/ comparisons then how those reports translate to the real world.
The Diavel will be more of a bike for the canyons where it will be able to use it's pedigree handing and lighter weight to surprise a few sport bikes with it's grunt out of the corners. It should be interesting to see what happens in the magazines test/ comparisons then how those reports translate to the real world.
