Electrical Gremlins 1 me 0

[Tex85]

I can send you a known good solenoid if you want to try it. My 89 was doing the exact same thing last week & it ended up being the starter. I can send you both if you want to try them. As far as the regulator I cant remeber if that one was hard wired in or not. If it still has the plug on it I can probably get it replaced if not it will be up to the company as to rather they will warranty it.

The regulator is in factory condition. The plugs in the bike match it at this point.


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[Tex85]

Went ahead and tried an inline fuse setup and I am still getting the same numbers.

Maybe the regulator is bad?

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[CaptainKyle]

Went ahead and tried an inline fuse setup and I am still getting the same numbers.

Maybe the regulator is bad?

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Sounds like the regulator is bad. I will order a new one but I will need that one back. I will go out & here & get a known good relay & send it to you & we can go from there.

 

[Miles Long]

OK here are the results for today... First off I jumped directly to the blue wire (relay side) from the positive battery pole and absolutely nothing happened. Looks like that confirms a bad relay.

I went ahead and inspected the R/R to confirm its configuration. There are five wires coming from the device. 3 (white wires) for AC to the engine (via a connector), 1 red to an adapter that ends up going into the same bundle that goes to what looks like the main fuse or another destination (I connected it to an adapter that was already available, would it be better to hard wire straight to positive pole with an inline fuse?), last a black wire that is going to a known good ground (i moved it to where 3 other things are currently grounded to make sure). Even with changing the ground I am still getting 19 to over 20 at <4k rpm.

Should I try direct to battery with an inline fuse, would it even help?

Sure sounds like the relay is bad. Providing all connections are clean and tight, and you press the starter button with the ignition on, the relay should click, and the starter motor should turn. As a 'last resort", you could try lightly tapping on the relay while attempting to start the bike, in case the springs inside are hung up. Detailed electrical testing procedures can be found on page 298 of the Clymer manual (available online, I believe). As an alternative, you could take the relay to an automotive electrical shop - I'm sure they could test it for you.
As for the RR - many folks have run the positive wire directly to the battery(with a 30 amp in-line fuse), but this is done to increase the efficiency of the regulator. You have a different, not so common issue - too much output.
Again, as a last resort, you could try a jumper wire from the black terminal directly to the negative post of the battery, but chances are this won't do any good.
keep us posted!

 

[Tex85]

I have tried both regular ground and to the negative post on the battery either way it is the same result.

When I jumped directly to the blue wire it no longer "clicked" when I hit the start button, should it have?

Kyle, I will send this regulator back to you once I get the new one since I didn't save the packaging. Once all is said and done just let me know what I owe and I'll settle my tab.

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[Miles Long]

When I jumped directly to the blue wire it no longer "clicked" when I hit the start button, should it have?

No need to press the start button, or even have the ignition on, because the relay and starter motor are wired directly to the battery.
You should have heard a click (relay closing internally) when you touched the live jumper wire to the blue connector, and the starter motor should have turned. The bike wouldn't have started because the ignition wouldn't be on (no power going to spark plugs)
Try lightly tapping the relay with the key on, while pressing the start button.

 

[CaptainKyle]

I have tried both regular ground and to the negative post on the battery either way it is the same result.

When I jumped directly to the blue wire it no longer "clicked" when I hit the start button, should it have?

Kyle, I will send this regulator back to you once I get the new one since I didn't save the packaging. Once all is said and done just let me know what I owe and I'll settle my tab.

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You can just stick it in a flat rate padded envelope or you can wait. Im dropping you a used one & a known good solenoid in the mail to get you going for now.

 

[ninjaneer]

Cap's DA MAN!

 

[Tex85]

No dice on the tapping either. Going to remove the existing regulator now since Kyle has a replacement on the way to me. Hopefully that + the starter relay are the solution I am looking for. I will update this thread once I get the parts and do the swap.
Thanks everyone!

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[Tex85]

Well yesterday some replacement parts came in from Kyle. I ended up having to work well into the evening so I was left with limited time to get everything installed before heading to bed exhausted.

That being said I installed the replacement regular and it is regulating properly! No more crazy numbers up to 20v and beyond, mid 13s at idle and numbers go down into the 12s at higher rpms. This should be good to go for now.

I installed the replacement starter relay (this actually occurred before the regulator but I figured I would start with good news). Turned the key, hit the start button, and nothing... no noises whatsoever. Double and triple checked the wiring. My battery was a little low from previous work so I hooked up the bike to my car to jump it with additional power, same result from the start button absolutely no noise. Shorted the posts on the relay and it fired right up (this is how I tested the regulator above).

Going to try to jump the starter relay directly from the positive pole on the battery tonight when I get back home. In the mean time, does anyone else have any other ideas? I already talked to Kyle and he said the relay was confirmed working as of last week when he shipped it.

 

[naughtyG]

Having read through this I'd say your starter motor is toast. Have you taken it off / open it up yet to take a look at the brushes etc?

 

[Miles Long]

I installed the replacement starter relay (this actually occurred before the regulator but I figured I would start with good news). Turned the key, hit the start button, and nothing... no noises whatsoever. Double and triple checked the wiring. My battery was a little low from previous work so I hooked up the bike to my car to jump it with additional power, same result from the start button absolutely no noise. Shorted the posts on the relay and it fired right up (this is how I tested the regulator above).

Going to try to jump the starter relay directly from the positive pole on the battery tonight when I get back home. In the mean time, does anyone else have any other ideas? I already talked to Kyle and he said the relay was confirmed working as of last week when he shipped it.[/QUOTE]

If it's not the relay, it has to be related to source of power going to it. Check to see how much voltage is reaching the blue striped wire, at the starter relay, when you press the start button. Positive probe in the wire connector, black to a known good ground.
The power to the blue wire comes from a multi-function relay on the 85-92 models. If you are not seeing voltage when the start button is pressed, first check the nine-pin harness connector (for corrosion) to the relay. It can be found behind the left hand scoop. If you still see no power to the blue wire after doing this, there are other checks to do.
Chances are this is a very simple problem, related to a poor connector or a bad switch.
Cheers!

 

[Tex85]

I have not taken the starter motor off due to it looking as being quite the involved process and the fact I can get the starter motor to kick on when I short the posts of the starter relay.

When I get home today I will check the voltage to the blue wire when the start button is depressed and look into working the problem backwards if it is not getting any voltage.

Thanks for the tips, I will report back results this evening.

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[Tex85]

OK tested the blue wire heading to the 9pin and I am getting 9.45 when the key is turned on, when I hit start it drops down to essentially 0 (.05). Tested the same point on the 9pin and I get the same results. I cleaned all the connectors as well prior to this test. Unfortunately I am without a clue as to what to do next.

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[Tex85]

I think I have concluded that this replacement relay is bad. If I try to give it jump it with a line right from the battery nothing happens. Shouldn't it make some sort of noise at the very least?

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[Miles Long]

OK tested the blue wire heading to the 9pin and I am getting 9.45 when the key is turned on, when I hit start it drops down to essentially 0 (.05). Tested the same point on the 9pin and I get the same results. I cleaned all the connectors as well prior to this test. Unfortunately I am without a clue as to what to do next.

Should be no need to take off the starter motor, Tex. You have already proven that it works. The problem is what energizes it. The starter relay (under the seat ) provides the juice, but it in turn must receive it's power from the relay unit (behind the scoop).
Getting back to that blue striped wire.....now that you have cleaned and re-connected the nine-pin to the scoop relay, measure the wire voltage at the seat relay connection, after disconnecting it, while pressing the starter switch (ignition on)
I interpret your above statements as saying you tested the voltages at the scoop connector. I just want to confirm that no power is getting to the seat relay , ignition on, starter button pressed.
If no power, next test(s) are for the scoop relay itself. "To be continued"....

I you do not have a wiring diagram, click on the Morley's Muscle banner on the home page, then go to wiring diagrams. I think they are in the technical section. Download and print off the diagram for the 1985-1992 models.

 

[Tex85]

@Miles Long

That is correct, if I have the ignition on and start button depressed the blue wire that connects to the starter relay stops getting power. When the start button is released it goes to 9.45 +- .02.

I downloaded the wiring diagram pdf, unfortunately I won't be able to print until the morning (I don't think I have had ink in my multifunction printer at home for at least 5 years lol... that is what the office is for!) I can always have it on a tablet for viewing by the bike while testing as well.

Based on the wiring diagram and what I have on the bike, it appears to be the same. I am going to try to pick up a new starter relay tomorrow at a shop 45 minutes north of me (if they have it) since I will be in that area anyway. I think there is a good chance I have pushed the battery a bit too far, however any testing I have done was 2 staged (first as is and second supplemented with a car battery to confirm that it is not an under-performing battery causing the problem).

 

[Miles Long]

Hopefully you have found a shop that has a "loaner" program?. Most dealerships won't take back electrical components if they are not needed.
Too bad you can't get your hands on a loaner scoop relay, as well as the starter relay.
The next test, if you are up to it, is to see if the scoop relay is receiving power.
Disconnect the nine-pin connector. Connect the voltmeter positive probe to the red/black lead of the harness connector, connect the negative probe to a good ground. Make sure the engine stop switch is set to "run", then turn on the ignition. You should measure battery voltage.

 

[Tex85]

Yeah ended up ordering a replacement online after finding the local shop wanted $91 for the relay... Absurd when they are on ebay and amazon.com for $20. Off to pull the scoop and check that now (should have just left it off from before, I wasn't thinking, then again I didn't want a naked VMAX when I took it on a little joyride after jumping it from my car).

I'll post results shortly.

 

[Tex85]

Ran the test, I am getting the same reading from battery as red/black on the 9pin + ground.